Ignorance on the Left hand path and magic. Avoiding the type of people that commit sick things.

[EtuMalku]

Refer to some of the ancient LHP Shaivite sects I have referenced in this topic and the other I quoted myself from. Kapalika and Kula for example. Kula is pretty individualistic.

You can likewise find very, very similar views in the Nirvana concept of Vajrayana, which was largely influenced by and influenced Kashmir Shaivism. In those Buddhist sects the individual was seen as a distinct yet united face on an infinitely large nondual diamond. Attaining Nirvana didn't destroy the person, but made them fully God. Many of these enlightened individuals forsook escaping rebirth and became Bodhisattvas and so became demigods. There are entire pantheons of these beings and many other humans who became gods in Tantra.

Just as many sects of Kashmir Shaivism, it was a reconciliation of monism and dualism. The deified individual is both themselves and yet all at the same time. Even in more dualistic tantric shaivite schools one becomes a distinct but equal Shiva. Similar to how many theistic Satanists want to become a god equal to Satan.

The "antinomianism" was actually practiced by Indian religions long before Satanism did anything with it: (emphasis added)

Not even hard to look up this stuff lol.

You make the same mistake that almost everyone does / has concerning the Left Hand Way and the Western Left Hand Path (which I admit should be renamed)
Both Orthodox and Heterodox Hinduism have the same goals . . . either the Union with or to be in the company of The Beloved / Absolute
This is directly in opposition to the Western LHP tenets which strives for separation from what is perceived as the Absolute (objective universe)
The concept of Left (vamachara / left way) is grounded in Tantric doctrines indicating the flow of energy through the body from left to right, energy enters from the left and exits through the right. Reversing this flow is the practice of Antinomianism.
In addition, Left Hand Vamachara does not unify with divinity outside of themselves in order to love the divine object and be in the company of the Beloved, this too is in opposition to the Western LHP.

Whereas these practices have some common ground with the Western LHP, they are not the same goals. We can thank Madman Blavatsky for the endless confusion between East & West . . . but thankfully Dr. Svoboda, Sir John George Woodroffe and Dr. Stephen Flowers have written excellent books on this.

 

[Kapalika]

Just because Buddha Gautama was self-awakened and was able to teach others to awaken (the definition of a Buddha) does not mean that other individuals will not be able to achieve this.

I think you may of misunderstood me as I didn't say they couldn't, just that there isn't one singular path.

What benefit to awakening does this practice provide?

*shrugs* Ask all the Buddhist and Hindu tantrics who do it. Actually, this question can be extended to the entire point of the Left Hand Path. It's no different. Really a properly liberated person should have no taboos but always act in accordance with Dharma as per their nature as "god" or whatever you want to call it. Strictly speaking eating anything that died of natural causes doesn't violate Dharma in the kind of tantric paths I was speaking of and may help one overcome taboo, duality or fear.

I think the wikipedia article I quoted actually addressed why some Buddhists do it.

Aghori fairly regularly will munch on partially cremated remains as a means to overcome fear of death and to become closer to Shiva who is a god of the cremation grounds.

But as I said, this question can be extended to all the "antinomianism" and "taboo" and "heterodox" aspects of the Left Hand Path. So questioning the ancient, sacred practice within some Tantric sects on these grounds, who are historically Left Hand Path and have been for centuries does not discredit them, but could possibly self-refute the proclaimed left hand path adherent peering in on the legitimate traditions they have potentially stolen terminology from and misapplied.

This isn't to be argumentative but is simply the logical result of the implication of the questioning. Either the two takes on it are related and the Satanists/occultists should at least make a nod to those roots, or they are not and it's simply a case of bad research and poorly misappropriated terminology.

I however practice both Satanism and Shaivism and find no issue, as Satanism is just the Left Hand Path extension of Hinduism in the cultural context of where I live, and there are actually a lot of similarities between Satanism and the Tantra I practice (Saivagama, Kashmir Shaivism, whatever you want to call it) as I have pointed out in this thread and the other where I quoted myself.

I sincerely believe I am practicing one of the purest forms of the Left Hand Path on 'both sides of the fence' if people really want to give into this false east-west dichotomy, although my foundation is ultimately in the more ancient form as the groundwork and philosophy is much more matured.

The Left Hand Path is inherently dangerous. It's quicker but it's hard to not loose your mind or turn to "evil" behaviors for a lack of a better word, in pursuit of liberation. That's why some members do bad things. Though I wouldn't call anything that doesn't hurt anyone bad or evil.

Edit: the left hand path, in it's original form manifests in accordance with culture, taste and lineage. so what i do is not atypical.

 

[EtuMalku]

I don't think it's really your place to preach at me about what my religion is. I spoke of this in another topic but your conceptualization of the eastern left hand path is misinformed:.

Apparently I know more about your religion than you . . . please see my assertation HERE -> http://www.religiousforums.com/thre...commit-sick-things.187065/page-7#post-4745648

 

[crossfire]

I think you may of misunderstood me as I didn't say they couldn't, just that there isn't one singular path.

The reason why there isn't one singular path is because we all have our own set of unique individual hang ups we must overcome.

*shrugs* Ask all the Buddhist and Hindu tantrics who do it. Actually, this question can be extended to the entire point of the Left Hand Path. It's no different. Really a properly liberated person should have no taboos but always act in accordance with Dharma as per their nature as "god" or whatever you want to call it. Strictly speaking eating anything that died of natural causes doesn't violate Dharma in the kind of tantric paths I was speaking of and may help one overcome taboo, duality or fear.

I think the wikipedia article I quoted actually addressed why some Buddhists do it.

I didn't see it there. No big deal.

Aghori fairly regularly will munch on partially cremated remains as a means to overcome fear of death and to become closer to Shiva who is a god of the cremation grounds.

This would be an indication of the wish for union with deity, no? (Contrary to WLHP)

But as I said, this question can be extended to all the "antinomianism" and "taboo" and "heterodox" aspects of the Left Hand Path. So questioning the ancient, sacred practice within some Tantric sects on these grounds, who are historically Left Hand Path and have been for centuries does not discredit them, but could possibly self-refute the proclaimed left hand path adherent peering in on the legitimate traditions they have potentially stolen terminology from and misapplied.

Hence, my question regarding what benefit the practice of eating human flesh has towards awakening. If you don't question, and just follow along, can you truly call yourself antinomian?

This isn't to be argumentative but is simply the logical result of the implication of the questioning. Either the two takes on it are related and the Satanists/occultists should at least make a nod to those roots, or they are not and it's simply a case of bad research and poorly misappropriated terminology.

I agree that it was misappropriated terminology, introduced to the West by Theosophy.

I however practice both Satanism and Shaivism and find no issue, as Satanism is just the Left Hand Path extension of Hinduism in the cultural context of where I live, and there are actually a lot of similarities between Satanism and the Tantra I practice (Saivagama, Kashmir Shaivism, whatever you want to call it) as I have pointed out in this thread and the other where I quoted myself.

I sincerely believe I am practicing one of the purest forms of the Left Hand Path on 'both sides of the fence' if people really want to give into this false east-west dichotomy, although my foundation is ultimately in the more ancient form as the groundwork and philosophy is much more matured.

Fair enough.

The Left Hand Path is inherently dangerous. It's quicker but it's hard to not loose your mind or turn to "evil" behaviors for a lack of a better word, in pursuit of liberation. That's why some members do bad things. Though I wouldn't call anything that doesn't hurt anyone bad or evil.

I agree that it can be dangerous. However, both LHP and RHP people are vulnerable to losing their mind and doing harmful things.

Edit: the left hand path, in it's original form manifests in accordance with culture, taste and lineage. so what i do is not atypical.

So, in your opinion, is the WLHP a manifestation of the "original LHP," or not? (Just a misappropriated label?)

 

[crossfire]

I should re-emphasize that the citta (or mind/personality) is not destroyed in these tantric sects. So it is actually close to what you talk about with self diefication. the idea of the self being destroyed in moksha (liberation) is more of a feature of samskya and arguably Vendanta.

In either case... it's not that in Saivagama:



Essentially, the citta becomes the cit; the personality becomes the god.

Not too different from what you term "western left hand path", eh?

That looks like re-absorption into universal consciousness, to me. Opposite of what WLHP seeks.

 

[Kapalika]

This would be an indication of the wish for union with deity, no? (Contrary to WLHP)

"Western" Left Hand Path also seeks unity with a deity; themselves. In this topic and others Left Hand Pathers have talked about self-deification and higher selves. They wish to be one and united with this higher self.

It appears more similar than different; some might even say it's another way of explanation and conceptualization of the same thing.

Hence, my question regarding what benefit the practice of eating human flesh has towards awakening. If you don't question, and just follow along, can you truly call yourself antinomian?

Nothing about the word antinomianism indicates that one must "question". It's simply going against the orthodox. Just as you mentioned in the one example not all antinomian practices are beneficial but that's rather subjective. Transgression and nonconformity for the sake of it itself is moot. If you are saying that by a tradition of antinomian practices it becomes it's own orthodoxy then this logic could really be applied to anything that is done for too long. But then that just leads to contrarian behavior with no real goal outside of simply being contrary.

Likewise one can and should question, but if all one does is question they won't be able to settle down and simply practice. Those who are attracted to such practices do so as a questioning of normal ways... of orthodoxy. The act itself, like other acts, is a form of questioning of purity and impurity, of holy and unholy.

So, in your opinion, is the WLHP a manifestation of the "original LHP," or not? (Just a misappropriated label?)

I'm saying that those are are only two options. I can't really think of a third. Either this sub-forum should be inclusive of both as both legitimately Left Hand Path or it's catering to a gross example of misappropriation that is marginalizing the original religious group. I don't know what the answer really is, I think it might fall somewhere in the middle. It really depends on the person you talk to which side that wall fall on I think.

That looks like re-absorption into universal consciousness, to me. Opposite of what WLHP seeks.

I don't really see it as any different than the self-deification spoken of by many others here. It's simply a different explanation; even to the atheistic Satanists they self-deify, just metaphorically. Just as many Hindus are also metaphorical. Really it's the same thing; the only real difference is the "western" one is being defined here as more dualistic. But as I've said there are plenty of Hindu LHP dualistic sects so it still comes out as at least very similar.

Again, it's still deification of the self. The only difference is the image it is put into. I may put myself into the image of Shiva but when my citta is regenerated into cit the end result is no different than when a "western" left hand pather becomes a god even if more dualistic. Speaking on that some tantric sects see you dualsitically as becoming a distinct Shiva. Shiva again here doesn't define what the person will be like in liberation, just the underlying nature as a creator of reality.

I think in this light the only real difference in the self-deification is the symbols one subscribes to that state. the "western" one as I've seen it presented talks about archetypes of beings like Satan and practicing Satanism is like being Satan, same with Lucifer and that archetype. Shiva likewise is another archetypical symbol.

I don't really see any difference.

But if this dividing line is along dualistic and nondual lines... would those dualistic tantric sects be "western left hand path" in your view? they don't seek union with cosmic consciousness but seek becoming a distinct cosmic consciousness.

 

[EtuMalku]

"Western" Left Hand Path also seeks unity with a deity; themselves. In this topic and others Left Hand Pathers have talked about self-deification and higher selves. They wish to be one and united with this higher self.

It appears more similar than different; some might even say it's another way of explanation and conceptualization of the same thing.




Nothing about the word antinomianism indicates that one must "question". It's simply going against the orthodox. Just as you mentioned in the one example not all antinomian practices are beneficial but that's rather subjective. Transgression and nonconformity for the sake of it itself is moot. If you are saying that by a tradition of antinomian practices it becomes it's own orthodoxy then this logic could really be applied to anything that is done for too long. But then that just leads to contrarian behavior with no real goal outside of simply being contrary.

Likewise one can and should question, but if all one does is question they won't be able to settle down and simply practice. Those who are attracted to such practices do so as a questioning of normal ways... of orthodoxy. The act itself, like other acts, is a form of questioning of purity and impurity, of holy and unholy.



I'm saying that those are are only two options. I can't really think of a third. Either this sub-forum should be inclusive of both as both legitimately Left Hand Path or it's catering to a gross example of misappropriation that is marginalizing the original religious group. I don't know what the answer really is, I think it might fall somewhere in the middle. It really depends on the person you talk to which side that wall fall on I think.



I don't really see it as any different than the self-deification spoken of by many others here. It's simply a different explanation; even to the atheistic Satanists they self-deify, just metaphorically. Just as many Hindus are also metaphorical. Really it's the same thing; the only real difference is the "western" one is being defined here as more dualistic. But as I've said there are plenty of Hindu LHP dualistic sects so it still comes out as at least very similar.

Again, it's still deification of the self. The only difference is the image it is put into. I may put myself into the image of Shiva but when my citta is regenerated into cit the end result is no different than when a "western" left hand pather becomes a god even if more dualistic. Speaking on that some tantric sects see you dualsitically as becoming a distinct Shiva. Shiva again here doesn't define what the person will be like in liberation, just the underlying nature as a creator of reality.

I think in this light the only real difference in the self-deification is the symbols one subscribes to that state. the "western" one as I've seen it presented talks about archetypes of beings like Satan and practicing Satanism is like being Satan, same with Lucifer and that archetype. Shiva likewise is another archetypical symbol.

I don't really see any difference.

But if this dividing line is along dualistic and nondual lines... would those dualistic tantric sects be "western left hand path" in your view? they don't seek union with cosmic consciousness but seek becoming a distinct cosmic consciousness.

"they don't seek union with cosmic consciousness but seek becoming a distinct cosmic consciousness"
I really wish you would have read my final post in reply to you.

 

[crossfire]

Nothing about the word antinomianism indicates that one must "question". It's simply going against the orthodox. Just as you mentioned in the one example not all antinomian practices are beneficial but that's rather subjective. Transgression and nonconformity for the sake of it itself is moot. If you are saying that by a tradition of antinomian practices it becomes it's own orthodoxy then this logic could really be applied to anything that is done for too long. But then that just leads to contrarian behavior with no real goal outside of simply being contrary.

Antinomianism is Conscience rather than Law.

Likewise one can and should question, but if all one does is question they won't be able to settle down and simply practice. Those who are attracted to such practices do so as a questioning of normal ways... of orthodoxy. The act itself, like other acts, is a form of questioning of purity and impurity, of holy and unholy.

One would hope that one thinks before they act.

I'm saying that those are are only two options. I can't really think of a third. Either this sub-forum should be inclusive of both as both legitimately Left Hand Path or it's catering to a gross example of misappropriation that is marginalizing the original religious group. I don't know what the answer really is, I think it might fall somewhere in the middle. It really depends on the person you talk to which side that wall fall on I think.



I don't really see it as any different than the self-deification spoken of by many others here. It's simply a different explanation; even to the atheistic Satanists they self-deify, just metaphorically. Just as many Hindus are also metaphorical. Really it's the same thing; the only real difference is the "western" one is being defined here as more dualistic. But as I've said there are plenty of Hindu LHP dualistic sects so it still comes out as at least very similar.

Again, it's still deification of the self. The only difference is the image it is put into. I may put myself into the image of Shiva but when my citta is regenerated into cit the end result is no different than when a "western" left hand pather becomes a god even if more dualistic. Speaking on that some tantric sects see you dualsitically as becoming a distinct Shiva. Shiva again here doesn't define what the person will be like in liberation, just the underlying nature as a creator of reality.

I think in this light the only real difference in the self-deification is the symbols one subscribes to that state. the "western" one as I've seen it presented talks about archetypes of beings like Satan and practicing Satanism is like being Satan, same with Lucifer and that archetype. Shiva likewise is another archetypical symbol.

I don't really see any difference.

But if this dividing line is along dualistic and nondual lines... would those dualistic tantric sects be "western left hand path" in your view? they don't seek union with cosmic consciousness but seek becoming a distinct cosmic consciousness.

The idea of being "reborn" is not new. A child separates from its mother when it is born, instead of being reabsorbed by its mother.

My personal view regarding nondualism and the illusion of duality: I see the illusion of duality as being the individual perception bias resulting from the subjective duality of like and dislike. Nondual would be free of this perception bias. Your mileage may vary.

 

[ScottySatan]

I would love to hear about the differences between eastern and western LHP. I recognise LHP in Hinduism. I haven't seen it in other eastern sources yet.
I don't understand why the compass points should be different.

If you teach me something useful I'll pay.

 

[EtuMalku]

I would love to hear about the differences between eastern and western LHP. I recognise LHP in Hinduism. I haven't seen it in other eastern sources yet.
I don't understand why the compass points should be different.

If you teach me something useful I'll pay.

Both Orthodox and Heterodox Hinduism have the same goals . . . either the Union with or to be in the company of The Beloved / Absolute
This is directly in opposition to the Western LHP tenets which strives for separation from what is perceived as the Absolute (objective universe)
The concept of Left (vamachara / left way) is grounded in Tantric doctrines indicating the flow of energy through the body from left to right, energy enters from the left and exits through the right. Reversing this flow is the practice of Antinomianism.
In addition, Left Hand Vamachara does not unify with divinity outside of themselves in order to love the divine object and be in the company of the Beloved, this too is in opposition to the Western LHP.

Whereas these practices have some common ground with the Western LHP, they are not the same goals. We can thank Madman Blavatsky for the endless confusion between East & West . . . but thankfully Dr. Svoboda, Sir John George Woodroffe and Dr. Stephen Flowers have written excellent books on this.

 

[1137]

Eastern Right Hand Path

Method: in line with authority. Some methods are approved and some are shunned, requiring followers to adhere to the authorities on the topic.

Goal: disillusion of the self, in fact overcoming the illusion of duality all together.

Examples: tantra, regular Hinduism, regular Buddhism, etc.

Eastern Left Hand Path

Method: heterodoxy. The ELHP relies on the authority of the RHP explicitly to go against it.

Goal: disillusion of the self, overcoming the illusion of duality.

Examples: same as above, but simply "dark groups" such as the Aghori.

Western Right Hand Path

Method: in line with authority, who decided what is right and wrong, acceptable and unacceptable.

Goal: a "heaven" type afterlife where the authority and hierarchy still stands, with the individual self remaining.

Examples: Christianity, Islam, Ancient Egyptian Osirian religion, etc.

Western Left Hand Path

Method: entirely personal / subjective, irrelevant of authority. (This means a follower of the WLHP can agree with the state or authority without any contradiction in their path).

Goal: a better life here and now, possibly deification upon death.

Examples: Setianism, Satanism, Luciferianism.

 

[ScottySatan]

Well...The Hindu stuff that I read said that there is a goal to strive for of self unification or harmony with the universe. loss of self. RHP. Blend in. Frank Lloyd Wright house.

An other goal is to strive for ultimate separation from the universe. gain of self. LHP. Stand out. Le Corbusier house.

That's about all my materials said (the houses part is my own). But it seems different from what you're saying.

 

[EtuMalku]

Well...The Hindu stuff that I read said that there is a goal to strive for of self unification or harmony with the universe. loss of self. RHP. Blend in. Frank Lloyd Wright house.

An other goal is to strive for ultimate separation from the universe. gain of self. LHP. Stand out. Le Corbusier house.

That's about all my materials said (the houses part is my own). But it seems different from what you're saying.

You're correct, Orthodox Hinduism seeks to merge with the Absolute while Heterodox Hinduism seeks to remain separate in order to enjoy the company of the Beloved (Absolute) . . . basically.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well...The Hindu stuff that I read said that there is a goal to strive for of self unification or harmony with the universe. loss of self. RHP. Blend in. Frank Lloyd Wright house.

An other goal is to strive for ultimate separation from the universe. gain of self. LHP. Stand out. Le Corbusier house.

That's about all my materials said (the houses part is my own). But it seems different from what you're saying.

No, that's not correct. @Mandi and I keep repeating ourselves but people don't seem to want to listen and keeping copying+pasting their misconceptions over and over. The goal isn't really unification like in terms of some hive mind concept, but expansion of consciousness. Our individual awareness isn't dissolved into anything. We're all manifestations of Brahman experiencing itself as points of individual awareness. We're already God, but the point is to realize it consciously. In our view, God is our True Self and we seek to realize that. We don't believe in a dualism between ourselves and the universe, because the universe (or cosmos) is all there is. It's the complete sphere that emcompasses all existence. I'm a Shakta. "Shaktism" translates to "doctrine of power" and "doctrine of the Goddess". Shakti is the dynamic, transformative power of existence that is viewed as the supreme power of the cosmos, which underlies everything. Shaktism views Shakti as Brahman, in other words. Shakti is envisioned as a feminine force and so is worshipped as the Goddess. (The Feminine is viewed as active, and the Masculine is viewed as passive. The Feminine is the Source and the Masculine comes from the Feminine, just as we see in the reproduction of animals which sexually reproduce.) Whichever Goddess you like most can represent Shakti to you. For me it's Kali, since She represents Shakti and the cosmos as a whole the best in my view.

In Shaktism, you seek to consciously raise and nurture this powerful, intense energy in yourself. Metaphorically, this is viewed as the Kundalini Serpent raising through the spiritual centers of the chakras until the Serpent unites with the Crown chakra and Enlightenment/Liberation is attained. That is when God-consciousness is realized.

The ego that you lose is the all the limited views of yourself that embodiment tends to bring on. The attachment to the body, fear of death, the identification of the Self with the mask we wear in this (i.e. I'm not really Frank, that's just a mask I'm wearing during this experience). THAT is what will be dissolved, yes. The body and your limited identity now are temporary. They will be crushed in the jaws of Time as the wheel ceaselessly rotates. But the point of awareness that is Divinity manifest, which is what we are all really are, is eternal. It was never formed and can never be destroyed. It merely transforms.

"Jai Kali Ma!

What mind can possibly approach you,
Much less grasp you, my beloved Kali!
This ordinary mind long for you to be simple,
predictable, easily appreciated, a sweet divinity,
a demure goddess, lovely to look at, engendering kindness.
Instead you parade forth in gruesome reality,
unabashed you unleash your limitless creative power,
thrilling the mind and body
with overwhelming sensual delights,
propelling the spirit into awe-inspiring
transcendent domains and
crushing us all in your jaws of time, decay and suffering.

You gave birth to ignorance and her offspring,
“lacking this” and “wanting that” populate the universe.
Is there nothing you don’t delight in creating?
How is this poor mind ever going to truly worship you?
I set out to circumambulate your divine form,
to do puja to you,
but lifetimes of effort have left me gasping,
seeing your infinitude spread out in all directions,
my mind and heart quiver
with fear and adoration, longing for annihilation in you
my beloved.

You demand full and total sacrifice,
not flower garlands and coins tossed at a statue,
not merely lighting candles and prostrating piously,
not sitting still as a corpse lost in the illusion
of inside and outside,
No, you delight in swallowing all sense of separation,
offer me your individuality you say,
offer up your ego mind,
offer up the waking, dream and deep sleep states!

This yoga is only for the insane
drunk on the nectar of Divine Love.
If you drink from the Holy Grail
you will drown in the end."

Again, the ego, the sense of separation, the individuality you lose are the perspective of limitation. In exchange, you gain infinity. You are God.

The antinomianism comes in because the non-dualism of such a view tends to frighten the conscious mind. So sometimes the mind needs a shock in order to truly comprehend such things. Which can lead to practices like cannibalism, convorting with corpses and even killing people. Philosophically, it can lead to forms of nihilism, too, as your mind opens to all-possibility and you reject the limited views of the human ape species on a tiny dustball. You realize there is no intrinsic purpose or meaning to anything. It just is. You can create your own path. You can just enjoy life in the moment, as it is. Death isn't viewed as a big deal. We're here one moment and gone the next. There is nothing you are beholden to in terms of social strictures. You are free.

(Note: This concepts are hard to put into words and I'm just at the beginning of learning all of this. So I may not be explaining some things as best as they can be explained. But I can only speak for myself, really.)

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

As for the Western concept of the Left Hand Path, it's mostly a reaction to mainstream Christianity and leftist social movements of the '60s. The Church of Satan was a reaction to conservative Christianity, the hippie movement and leftist movements of the '60s. It promoted atheism, individualism, hedonism, rejection of altruism, social Darwinism, capitalism and flirted with fascism. LaVey was basically an Ayn Rand fanboy (as well as a plagiarist, a liar and a self-hating Jew with a Nazi fetish) who cloaked it in "dark" imagery to make it exciting. Now it's outdated because atheism, individualism and hedonism (albeit consumerist, corporatized forms of it; which isn't much different from what the CoS proposes in the first place, since it was quite vapid and dogmatic from the beginning) are all mainstream and conservative Christianity is dwindling in the West. As for social Darwinism, rejection of altruism and capitalism, that has been the mainstream of American society for most of its history (slavery, plantations, indentured servitude, the robber barons of the 19th century, the eugenics movement, etc.), with a brief respite during the Great Depression, WWII and post-war years where the government created much more protections for the working class and created an industrial boom that created an extraordinary middle class. Now that's dead, the middle class is being destroyed and we're back to living in a social Darwinist, out of control capitalist society that's getting worse as time goes on.

Deification of Self is also found in Christianity (theosis) and various pre-Christian Hellenic religions. So there's nothing that outre about that. I really don't see much that separates Western LHP from Western mainstream society in general, honestly.

 

[1137]

As for the Western concept of the Left Hand Path, it's mostly a reaction to mainstream Christianity and leftist social movements of the '60s. The Church of Satan was a reaction to conservative Christianity, the hippie movement and leftist movements of the '60s. It promoted atheism, individualism, hedonism, rejection of altruism, social Darwinism, capitalism and flirted with fascism. LaVey was basically an Ayn Rand fanboy (as well as a plagiarist, a liar and a self-hating Jew with a Nazi fetish) who cloaked it in "dark" imagery to make it exciting. Now it's outdated because atheism, individualism and hedonism (albeit consumerist, corporatized forms of it; which isn't much different from what the CoS proposes in the first place, since it was quite vapid and dogmatic from the beginning) are all mainstream and conservative Christianity is dwindling in the West. As for social Darwinism, rejection of altruism and capitalism, that has been the mainstream of American society for most of its history (slavery, plantations, indentured servitude, the robber barons of the 19th century, the eugenics movement, etc.), with a brief respite during the Great Depression, WWII and post-war years where the government created much more protections for the working class and created an industrial boom that created an extraordinary middle class. Now that's dead, the middle class is being destroyed and we're back to living in a social Darwinist, out of control capitalist society that's getting worse as time goes on.

Deification of Self is also found in Christianity (theosis) and various pre-Christian Hellenic religions. So there's nothing that outre about that. I really don't see much that separates Western LHP from Western mainstream society in general, honestly.

No, that's not correct. I keep repeating myself but people don't seem to want to listen and keeping copying+pasting their misconceptions over and over.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No, that's not correct. I keep repeating myself but people don't seem to want to listen and keeping copying+pasting their misconceptions over and over.

Funny, but a failure. Try again.

 

[1137]

Funny, but a failure. Try again.

Your understanding of the WLHP boils down to the post reformation Church of Satan, can't fail much harder.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Your understanding of the WLHP boils down to the post reformation Church of Satan, can't fail much harder.

"Post reformation"? I'm talking about the CoS from its beginning, which spawned the Temple of Set (although they introduced theism and spiritual concepts into it which again, are oldhat in Western religious history) and most of the Western Left Hand Path is heavily influenced by LaVeyan Satanism (except for forms of Satanism which explicitly reject LaVey). Then you have people like Michael W. Ford who combines aspects of ONA thought with aspects of LaVeyan thought. As for Luciferianism, much of that is agnostic or atheistic, and focused on artistic and intellectual pursuits (many of them are also quite snobby, since they tend to have an air of intellectual superiority).

 

[1137]

"Post reformation"? I'm talking about the CoS from its beginning, which spawned the Temple of Set (although they introduced theism and spiritual concepts into it which again, are oldhat in Western religious history) and most of the Western Left Hand Path is heavily influenced by LaVeyan Satanism (except for forms of Satanism which explicitly reject LaVey). Then you have people like Michael W. Ford who combines aspects of ONA thought with aspects of LaVeyan thought. As for Luciferianism, much of that is agnostic or atheistic, and focused on artistic and intellectual pursuits (many of them are also quite snobby, since they tend to have an air of intellectual superiority).

The very founding members of the circle that created the church of Satan had serious occult inclinations. You are misinformed. Further, how do you compare this to gods like Prometheus and Melek Taus, who played similar roles and were forgiven and worshipped? Surely you don't think Prometheus was made after the 1960s!