I'm now a vegetarian!!!

[MaddLlama]

I still don't understand why biology has to be brought up in the first place unless you're trying to convince everyone that eating meat is wrong and everyone should be a vegetarian like you.

 

[Hema]

Why would we evolve the ability to digest meat if it did not confer some advantage to do so? The idea that such is even possible runs counter to the whole idea of natural selection. There must be some evolutionary advantage conferred on us by eating meat otherwise we, and our closest cousins the chimpanzees, would be vegetarian like one of our slightly less close cousins, the gorilla. To be honest, whilst you can make religious, cultural and ethical arguments for vegetarianism that are good, trying to make the same arguments on biological premises is a complete non-starter.

James

It doesn't run counter to natural selection because many diseases are associated with eating meat.

 

[Hema]

I still don't understand why biology has to be brought up in the first place unless you're trying to convince everyone that eating meat is wrong and everyone should be a vegetarian like you.

I brought up biology because someone mentioned that we need meat to survive and we don't.

 

[MaddLlama]

I brought up biology because someone mentioned that we need meat to survive and we don't.

Really? Who said that? Going back over the thread, it seems as if you brought up biology within the first few pages trying to point out that humans were not meant to eat meat because we are nothing like carnivores. I didn't see anyone who said we need meat to survive. I said that we need protein to survive. You brought up the whole "herbivore/carnivore" thing unprovoked, and it seems as though this entire thread has really been an argument over why vegetarians are so much better than everyone else.

 

[Hema]

Really? Who said that? Going back over the thread, it seems as if you brought up biology within the first few pages trying to point out that humans were not meant to eat meat because we are nothing like carnivores. I didn't see anyone who said we need meat to survive. I said that we need protein to survive. You brought up the whole "herbivore/carnivore" thing unprovoked, and it seems as though this entire thread has really been an argument over why vegetarians are so much better than everyone else.

It was this post:

I need a healthy mix of fruits, vegetables, and meats to be healthy. I want to do more than merely survive. I want to be healthy. So I eat a variety of foods and everything in moderation.

I agree with him when he says that if we eat everything in moderation (including meat) we can be healthy but I was trying to prove that vegetarians are not merely surviving and by showing how the human body reacts to the bad LDL cholesterol etc. from meat, that vegetarians can even avoid many diseases associated with meat. Thus, we can even be healthier than those who eat meat. He was implying that people can be healthier by eating meat.

 

[MaddLlama]

I agree with him when he says that if we eat everything in moderation (including meat) we can be healthy but I was trying to prove that vegetarians are not merely surviving and by showing how the human body reacts to the bad LDL cholesterol etc. from meat, that vegetarians can even avoid many diseases associated with meat. Thus, we can even be healthier than those who eat meat. He was implying that people can be healthier by eating meat.

And, that has what to do with your assumption that we are more closely related to herbivores than any other type of animal?

 

[astarath]

This thread has quickly become a very circular argument...congratulations for becoming a vegetarian. It is a decision that shows great will power and devotion in today's society. May God be with you always.

 

[Hema]

And, that has what to do with your assumption that we are more closely related to herbivores than any other type of animal?

Because our bodies are healthier when we eat plant-based food.

 

[James the Persian]

It doesn't run counter to natural selection because many diseases are associated with eating meat.

You missed the point. If meat eating conferred no advantage (and you're arguing that it actually confers a disadvantage) then that means that we somehow evolved in a way immune to natural selection. If what you say is true, then we'd either be herbivores, rather than the omnivores we are, or you've just proven the theory of evolution by natural selection wrong. As neither of these things is true, it's clear that eating meat must have conferred an advantage and not a disadvantage. Of course, it doesn't follow that the excessive consumption of meat in modern society confers the same advantage. That could quite possibly do the opposite, but then it's quite obvious that it's not meat eating that causes a problem per se, but rather the types and amount of meat we eat combined with other factors such as a relative paucity of fruit and vegetables in the diet, more sedentary lifestyles etc.

James

 

[NoahideHiker]

I wanted to announce that after seeing a very disturbing insight into how animals are 'humanely' slaughtered in abbotior that I have made a decision to become a vegetarian!


The series 'Kill it, cook it, eat it' on BBC has put me off meat all together!
It documents peoples reactions on how animals are killed for food and there is a restraunt set up in the abbotior for people to try the said meat after it has been killed.

Apparently after the animals are stunned they are brain dead and un-aware of whats happening to them but I'm no genious but even I could see from the video that the animals were fully aware of the pain that they were going through as they were bled.

The woman who was explaining the process tried to convince the viewing audience that the spasms were due to lack of blood going to the muscles but for me that explanation didn't wash, it didn't explain why the animals were flinching when they were cut!

I have links to videos from the said show and here they are:

WARNING!
THESE VIDEOS ARE NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART AND ARE VERY GRAPHIC AND POSSIBLY OFFENSIVE, VIEW AT YOUR OWN DESCRETION!!!

The sheep:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m-sXtdSdEA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDAEyW3k92M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StrPOjyW__g

The cow:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OD683YQCOY

Comapassion in world farming promo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3Hkg_ivQhc

Now I don't know about you but after watching that I cannot bring myself to look at meat the same!
There is no way that that process is in any way humane!
I'm not going to judge meat eaters but I am choosing not to be one of them!

I think though that anybody who does eat meat should know where it comes from and take time to watch these videos.

This is probably unrelated but I love to cook. One of my favorite chefs is Gordon Ramsey (the English a-hole one) and throughout the year he will keep certain animals in his back yard for his children to raise to maturity and then they have them slaughtered and eat the meat. It really teaches children the importance of knowing where their food comes from. I like that idea.

if you want to know what it's like to be a part of the big old circle of life try hunting. There is something truely spiritual about harvesting your own meat from an animal that was born in the wild and has been free it's whole life. To kill it yourself, butcher it yourself, cook it yourself and eat it is very rewarding.

My big rub with factory meat farming is the amount of crap they put in the meat. All those antibiotics and hormones...it's no wonder we have 12 year old girls running around fully developed. i wish I had a source for kosher meat near me. The process is much more humane and the meat is of the highest quality.

 

[Papersock]

Imagine when we are able to grow meat that is not a conscious animal. Would we be able to eat it guilt-free?

 

[Ciscokid]

Have you ever seen a healthy-looking vegetarian? They look like ****! They're all gaunt and yellow. After a while, their bodies become intolerant of other things. I'll give you an example. I was out to lunch with a comedian friend of mine, and later in the day he said and I quote, "I feel nauseous and I have a headache. That soup I had must have had beef broth in it." ...Your system's kickin back... broth? You're a manly man, aren't you?

More Vegans means more meat for me. I would prefer that animals were slaughtered in a way that causes little to no suffering. But I LOVE a good steak!

 

[Guitar's Cry]

just this morning he was telling me that when he was driving near KFC the smell made him feel sick.

Haha...

The smell of KFC makes some hardcore meateaters sick.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Imagine when we are able to grow meat that is not a conscious animal. Would we be able to eat it guilt-free?

I imagine it would make a huge difference if animals could speak english.

 

[Flappycat]

if you want to know what it's like to be a part of the big old circle of life try hunting. There is something truely spiritual about harvesting your own meat from an animal that was born in the wild and has been free it's whole life. To kill it yourself, butcher it yourself, cook it yourself and eat it is very rewarding.

Umm...you shoot it...you trudge out into the woods to find the damned thing, probably getting soaked to your thighs in some stagnant pond in the process...it's probably still partially alive when you find it unless you're both a really good shot and fully aware of your skill level, so you get out your knife to finish it off...you drag it back to the pickup, getting the rest of your body soaked in the same stagnant pond in spite of your efforts to skirt around it...you drive back to camp to wash yourself off using strange-smelling water drawn out of the ground by a hand pump...you consume some of those canned sausages, some nabs and a can of beer while congratulating yourself for having the sense to bring a change of clothes this time...you drink more beer while waiting for your hopefully water-resistant camouflage jacket and briar britches to dry out...you and some buddies (bribed to help with some of your most cherished cuts) go about skinning the deer, and, since you're probably completely skunked by now, the smell of the deer's innards doesn't really bother you anymore (if you're not a heavy drinker when you start doing this, you will be by the end of your third season if you have any sense of smell)...at the end of the day, you're laying in bed, after having showered and driven a species of tick into (you pray) extinction by plucking them off of your body, wondering what the hell you're going to do with the meat that you have stored in the deep freeze and kinda worried that the stuff is going to go to waste again.

Hunting birds is easier. Shoot flappy thing out of sky, snap its neck on a log, repeat, repeat, repeat, drive home, peel, cook, and eat. Generally speaking, the day's kills can be consumed in one night, and it tastes good with lots of mozerella and Prego. I can't say anything for water fowl, but I've heard it can get expensive. I'll just stick to the ones from Publix or the local Chinese restaurant, thanks.

 

[NoahideHiker]

Umm...you shoot it...you trudge out into the woods to find the damned thing, probably getting soaked to your thighs in some stagnant pond in the process...it's probably still partially alive when you find it unless you're both a really good shot and fully aware of your skill level, so you get out your knife to finish it off...you drag it back to the pickup, getting the rest of your body soaked in the same stagnant pond in spite of your efforts to skirt around it...you drive back to camp to wash yourself off using strange-smelling water drawn out of the ground by a hand pump...you consume some of those canned sausages, some nabs and a can of beer while congratulating yourself for having the sense to bring a change of clothes this time...you drink more beer while waiting for your hopefully water-resistant camouflage jacket and briar britches to dry out...you and some buddies (bribed to help with some of your most cherished cuts) go about skinning the deer, and, since you're probably completely skunked by now, the smell of the deer's innards doesn't really bother you anymore (if you're not a heavy drinker when you start doing this, you will be by the end of your third season if you have any sense of smell)...at the end of the day, you're laying in bed, after having showered and driven a species of tick into (you pray) extinction by plucking them off of your body, wondering what the hell you're going to do with the meat that you have stored in the deep freeze and kinda worried that the stuff is going to go to waste again.

Hunting birds is easier. Shoot flappy thing out of sky, snap its neck on a log, repeat, repeat, repeat, drive home, peel, cook, and eat. Generally speaking, the day's kills can be consumed in one night, and it tastes good with lots of mozerella and Prego. I can't say anything for water fowl, but I've heard it can get expensive. I'll just stick to the ones from Publix or the local Chinese restaurant, thanks.

Quite a red neck picture ya painted there. Have you ever been hunting? Doesn't sound like it. And if that is hunting to you, well...

My hunting experiences are far from what you describe. Hours on end of sitting in the woods enjoying nothing but peace, quiet and nature. Then, if I have prepared myself properly and kept my skill level where I am responsible to keep them, I get the privilege of harvesting meat for year for my family. Healthy, pure, natural meat that is untainted by farmers. The memories I have of my hours and years spent in the outdoors hunting aren't worth all the angus beef in Nebraska. :no:

 

[Flappycat]

Quite a red neck picture ya painted there. Have you ever been hunting? Doesn't sound like it. And if that is hunting to you, well...

Yes. I have. Several times. My father used to drag me along every year. It was kind of fun. Eyeballs are cool and kind of squishy.

My hunting experiences are far from what you describe. Hours on end of sitting in the woods enjoying nothing but peace, quiet and nature.

Get a fishing pole, and don't bait it.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

If you really want to be grossed out you'll watch Earthlings documentery. Pretty gross. I eat meat and love it. However I eat zabiha halal meat only. The animals are bought from Amish farms at a very high price actually. The process is slow and humane to say the least. No beating the animal, decapitating it, scaring it, torturing it, skinning it while alive, gutting it without killing it, overcrowded pens, underfeeding them, etc etc. In Islam it is forbidden for us to eat an animal killed in any other fashion than the quick humane slaughter described in Quran.

So I do not buy nor condone buying meat found in Dominiks, Jewels, Kroger, Safeway or anyother store. I only purchase meat from muslims who buy and sell on zabiha meat only. I have not eaten that meat for more than 12 years now.

 

[darkpenguin]

If you really want to be grossed out you'll watch Earthlings documentery. Pretty gross. I eat meat and love it. However I eat zabiha halal meat only. The animals are bought from Amish farms at a very high price actually. The process is slow and humane to say the least. No beating the animal, decapitating it, scaring it, torturing it, skinning it while alive, gutting it without killing it, overcrowded pens, underfeeding them, etc etc. In Islam it is forbidden for us to eat an animal killed in any other fashion than the quick humane slaughter described in Quran.

So I do not buy nor condone buying meat found in Dominiks, Jewels, Kroger, Safeway or anyother store. I only purchase meat from muslims who buy and sell on zabiha meat only. I have not eaten that meat for more than 12 years now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halal

Would you think it humane for a human to be slaughtered in that way? I think not!

 

[Flappycat]

You probably endure more pain at the dentist, and you're rendered unconscious in seconds once bloodflow to the brain has been severed. A slit throat makes you dead pretty quickly.