I'm now a vegetarian!!!

[darkpenguin]

You probably endure more pain at the dentist, and you're rendered unconscious in seconds once bloodflow to the brain has been severed. A slit throat makes you dead pretty quickly.

I'm guessing you didn't care to look at the videos I posted?

And being dead means no heart beat and no brain activity and also seeing as nobody has ever come back from the dead who are we to judge exactly when death occurs?

 

[Flappycat]

I'm guessing you didn't care to look at the videos I posted?

I did. It's pretty cool.

And being dead means no heart beat and no brain activity and also seeing as nobody has ever come back from the dead who are we to judge exactly when death occurs?

I think they're generally pretty unconscious well before that happens.

 

[darkpenguin]

I did. It's pretty cool.

I think they're generally pretty unconscious well before that happens.

Ok fair enough thats your opinion although if I went with your opinion then I'd be believing that dead bodies everywhere flinch when having autopsys done on them!
And of course we know that thats not true as dead bodies and unconcious bodies don't respond to pain!
It's clear as day that they do in the videos thus the animals are alive and very much in pain while they are being drained of life!

 

[Flappycat]

Ok fair enough thats your opinion

I see this statement as something of a copout, actually.

although if I went with your opinion then I'd be believing that dead bodies everywhere flinch when having autopsys done on them!

They would if the coroner got there soon enough.

It's clear as day that they do in the videos thus the animals are alive and very much in pain while they are being drained of life!

If I stare at you long enough, there will be two of you. Have fun with the clone.

 

[NoahideHiker]

If you really want to be grossed out you'll watch Earthlings documentery. Pretty gross. I eat meat and love it. However I eat zabiha halal meat only. The animals are bought from Amish farms at a very high price actually. The process is slow and humane to say the least. No beating the animal, decapitating it, scaring it, torturing it, skinning it while alive, gutting it without killing it, overcrowded pens, underfeeding them, etc etc. In Islam it is forbidden for us to eat an animal killed in any other fashion than the quick humane slaughter described in Quran.

So I do not buy nor condone buying meat found in Dominiks, Jewels, Kroger, Safeway or anyother store. I only purchase meat from muslims who buy and sell on zabiha meat only. I have not eaten that meat for more than 12 years now.

I have been trying to find goat meat in my area and I have finally found a halal meat store that I'm going to try there. Halal sounds a lot like kosher slaughter.

Here's a funny story. I have a friend in Michigan who's father raises goats. Last year he decided he wanted to raise and slaughter them according to the halal laws. So he went and got a sword. Long story short; he ended up wrestling this feisty goat and hurting his back. His son told him, "Dad, why are you doing that? We're Methodist.". LOL!

 

[NoahideHiker]

Ok fair enough thats your opinion although if I went with your opinion then I'd be believing that dead bodies everywhere flinch when having autopsys done on them!
And of course we know that thats not true as dead bodies and unconcious bodies don't respond to pain!
It's clear as day that they do in the videos thus the animals are alive and very much in pain while they are being drained of life!

I'm a caregiver for the terminal ill and yes, dead things do move around. But this is all a moot point because you have chosen to live your life a certain way based on your person conscience. I commend you for that and support your decision. Many times people find vegetarians to be a bit preachy and become threatened by them.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

I'm a caregiver for the terminal ill and yes, dead things do move around. But this is all a moot point because you have chosen to live your life a certain way based on your person conscience. I commend you for that and support your decision. Many times people find vegetarians to be a bit preachy and become threatened by them.

I don't think threatened is as much the word as annoyed...it's like reformed smokers who need to browbeat the people who haven't stopped smoking with the fact they have.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

Unbiased source is an oxymoron, heh.

Congratulations on going vegetarian, darkpengiun. I stopped eating meat as a result of my own moral convictions -- being that I took up the Jain idea that killing should be limited to bare necessity. I'll reiterate the statement that I won't try to force meat-eaters to stop, but if they're willing to listen I'll ask that they stop.

Concerning our biology, I'm still unsure on the matter. For those of us who believe in macro-evolution, the answer could probably be found in what our primate ancestors were. Baboons eat meat, but from what I understand most primates don't. But then chimps eat small monkeys....

Chimps have a percentage of about 5-6% meat in their diet, about 20% leaves and the rest is largely fruit.
Given that the normal western diet often consists of 2-3 serves of meat per day and most kids would rather eat a Snickers than an apple and 'what thehell do you mean you want me to eat spinach?!:sarcastic ',we've screwed up royally on the optimum diet front.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

You missed the point. If meat eating conferred no advantage (and you're arguing that it actually confers a disadvantage) then that means that we somehow evolved in a way immune to natural selection. If what you say is true, then we'd either be herbivores, rather than the omnivores we are, or you've just proven the theory of evolution by natural selection wrong. As neither of these things is true, it's clear that eating meat must have conferred an advantage and not a disadvantage. Of course, it doesn't follow that the excessive consumption of meat in modern society confers the same advantage. That could quite possibly do the opposite, but then it's quite obvious that it's not meat eating that causes a problem per se, but rather the types and amount of meat we eat combined with other factors such as a relative paucity of fruit and vegetables in the diet, more sedentary lifestyles etc.

James

Actually the current theory is that our distant ancestors decision to start eating meat is a big part of what gives us the intellligence today to be able to make decisions about what we eat based on moral grounds.
There are lots of dietary factors that cause us problems, not just the fact we eat meat. Many countries with far less incidence of what we'd call 'modern western illnesses' have diets that not only contain less meat (less being the operative word as opposed to none), but also more whole grains, in a lot of instances more seafood, less processed foods, etc. A lot of them also have by and large a far more active lifestyle.
Start weaning them on to the way we live and their heart disease rates skyrocket, just for starters.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

In terms of the what-are-humans-supposed-to-eat debate, I would say that we are naturally scavengers that will eat whatever we find and is convenient. But then, this isn't a subject I've studiously researched.

I took an animal rights class in college during which I watched videos much like the ones posted (an an annoyingly biased Penn and Teller vid promoting meat-eating that made me lose a lot of respect for the two). It really did make me more conscious about what (and who) I was eating. But, I noticed that the images I saw would lose their shock value over time and habitually, I would stop thinking about what I was eating. So now, be it animal or vegetable, I think about what I eat before I eat it. I will contemplate the ingredients of a dish and how those were harvested. I will then thank whatever gave its life for my nutrition. I enjoy my food more this way.

I've wanted to go completely vegetarian for a while, but admit, I have not the willpower for it.

 

[Flappycat]

If we go long enough eating them, our natural source of nutrition will become Happy Meals and Buffalo wings, and we'll develop allergies and intolerances to everything else. What was "natural" for us ten thousand years ago would make any modern human being sick. Evolution doesn't stop working when you bang together the magical fire rocks.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

If we go long enough eating them, our natural source of nutrition will become Happy Meals and Buffalo wings, and we'll develop allergies and intolerances to everything else. What was "natural" for us ten thousand years ago would make any modern human being sick. Evolution doesn't stop working when you bang together the magical fire rocks.

Hence, we have the match, which is what the magical fire rocks evolved into.

 

[Flappycat]

Hence, we have the match, which is what the magical fire rocks evolved into.

And most modern humans who attempt to make do with the fire rocks seem to end up with traumatic blood loss.

 

[Radio Frequency X]

And most modern humans who attempt to make do with the fire rocks seem to end up with traumatic blood loss.

Are you saying that evolution is somehow unproductive?

 

[Flappycat]

Are you saying that evolution is somehow unproductive?

No, merely that it is driven by demand.

 

[Radio Frequency X]

No, merely that it is driven by demand.

Oh. On that I agree.

 

[Mister_T]

Animals feel pain and they suffer when they get slaughtered. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a sugar-coated fantasy land.

 

[Flappycat]

Animals feel pain and they suffer when they get slaughtered. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a sugar-coated fantasy land.

Yup! But they're just so yummy!

 

[Radio Frequency X]

Animals feel pain and they suffer when they get slaughtered. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a sugar-coated fantasy land.

That isn't a good reason not to eat them.

 

[Flappycat]

That isn't a good reason not to eat them.

I'll be eating. Will you?