Incel What is it?

[Justanatheist]

Self defense needn't be a death sentence.
It still seems that you're advocating that men just
take it as long as possible. I see no good reason
to endure unjust violence just cuz the assailant
is female.

Because your a man, nuff said.

 

[ChristineM]

This isn't clear.

I believe it answered both your questions.

Is this one event to define incels? - no

Or is the issue broader & more complex
than "An incel committed mass murder." - no.

 

[Revoltingest]

Do you sympathize with incels in the context of this thread, as part of how they're being depicted by us?

Are you trying to get me to take a side...entirely for or
against a group? If so, it won't work.

I'm empathy challenged, so I'm not big on sympathy for anyone.
Reading the Wikipedia article, I see that there are many people
(male & female) who are very unhappy because they cannot
relate to others. And this results in some becoming hateful,
bigoted, & even violent.

This strikes me as a mental health issue in need of greater
attention. So even though I've no sympathy for incels,
people suffering from depression, schizophrenics, & others
with potentially dangerous mental maladies, I don't judge
all by the actions of a few. And I see need for tolerance &
assistance to those in need.

 

[Kooky]

Because your a man, nuff said.

That's the kind of toxic masculinity I'd rather get rid of altogether.

Hitting people in any other than a fully consensual context is not okay regardless of who does it. Abuse, even physical abuse, can be applied by people of any gender, against victims of any gender, and it's never okay or something you would have to "endure".

Sorry for getting so preachy, but this is a sore point for me.
Nobody deserves to be hurt (unless they literally ask for it).

 

[Revoltingest]

Because your a man, nuff said.

Guilty as charged.



Edit...
In my defense, I'm not much of one.

 

[Revoltingest]

You can defend yourself. But I'd try defensive moves first.

My point is that men attacking women, even in self defense, isn't exactly the same as women attacking men.

When defending oneself, I wouldn't call this an "attack".
I believe that defense should be commensurate with the threat.
Self defense is not some excuse to kill another person.
And being perceived as a weaker person is no excuse
to assault another.

 

[Koldo]

I agree with the words you said, the depiction, but if you're saying high standards are wrong, I disagree.

Nah. There is nothing wrong with having a high standard per se. As a matter of fact, everyone should have a high standard, up to a certain point, as far as I am concerned. And it should always involve more than looks and money.

 

[Revoltingest]

Or is the issue broader & more complex
than "An incel committed mass murder." - no.

If so, then the OP is rather pointless.
It's another example of incels being potential mass murderers.
Just grist for an echo chamber's mill, eh.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

When defending oneself, I wouldn't call this an "attack".
I believe that defense should be commensurate with the threat.
Self defense is not some excuse to kill another person.
And being perceived as a weaker person is no excuse
to assault another.

Sounds like I need to be careful then. If I punch a man in the shoulder, he could misunderstand it and punch me in the forehead with all his strength.

After all, I may have hurt his shoulder pretty bad.

Or better yet, we can actually apply a lot more nuances to the subject of attacks and defending yourself, so we don't get into some terrible situations that have us pleading our innocence before a judge, even if we believe we were completely in the right.

 

[Justanatheist]

That's the kind of toxic masculinity I'd rather get rid of altogether.

Hitting people in any other than a fully consensual context is not okay regardless of who does it. Abuse, even physical abuse, can be applied by people of any gender, against victims of any gender, and it's never okay or something you would have to "endure".

Sorry for getting so preachy, but this is a sore point for me.
Nobody deserves to be hurt (unless they literally ask for it).

I am not suggesting anyone should endure physical abuse, you can call the police, walk away, but men do not hit women, if that is toxic masculinity then so be it, it was the way my father who was a strong role model brought me up. It is the way I have brought up my sort of stepson and I make no apologies.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I am not suggesting anyone should endure physical abuse, you can call the police, walk away, but men do not hit women, if that is toxic masculinity then so be it, it was the way my father who was a strong role model brought me up. It is the way I have brought up my sort of stepson and I make no apologies.

Thank you for your strong discipline and convictions. Respect.

 

[Stevicus]

Not blaming it on the modern world I just do not understand it, groups of men whining because they cannot get laid.

And not being funny but Plymouth has got to be one of the easiest places to get laid in the UK! Give him a tenner and point him in the direction of Union Street.

That may be what it looks like on the surface, but I don't think it's because they can't get laid. In fact, a lot of them probably could get laid if they put a modicum of effort into it, which is why "incel" is kind of a misnomer. To me, those who are "involuntary" celibate are those who have some kind of physical or medical condition which prevents them from having sex. But the ones labeled as "incels" seem to have psychological problems, not physical problems.

However, I think a lot of guys might judge themselves based on what they see their peers doing, as well as what their fathers and grandfathers did. Their families may also pressure them into going to college, getting a lucrative career, finding a nice girl to marry - so they can have their house in the suburbs with the white picket fence and the 1.3 kids. They still want to be Ward Cleaver in a world where Ward Cleaver has become mostly irrelevant and mostly the butt of jokes. Ward Cleaver has been replaced by Homer Simpson, yet who's going to aspire to be Homer Simpson?

 

[SomeRandom]

I admit to skipping part of the OP.
But I still detect some gender tribalism here.
Demonize all incels...& only males....because of the
act of one crazed killer. If this is to be the sole theme
of the thread, & larger issues are to be eschewed,
then so be it.

The incel community does tend to skew towards males. This is not an indictment of all men, nor does it suggest that men will necessarily become problematic if they do not experience sex. The trend does suggest that there may be a portion (a small one) of men who may need some assistance from society to deal with their specific mental health issues. And that’s perfectly fine. Everyone needs a helping hand once in a while. No shame in that, I would hope
That I needed to reassure you of this fact does seem a bit…telling, if you don’t mind me saying?

 

[Vouthon]

If a man punches a woman with all his strength, it could kill her.

Or a man, for that matter.

Many men have been killed outright by a one punch blow to the head from another man. In fact, statistically afaik, the victims of one punch blows tend overwhelmingly to be other males, because the vast majority of men would never even dream of lifting a finger to a woman:


One-punch deaths: How lives are devastated by a single blow

While no official figures are available on one-punch deaths, the campaign group One Punch Can Kill has recorded more than 80 fatalities since 2007.

Many of the cases have attracted media attention - in large part because it seems extraordinary that one punch can kill.

Many one-punch killings involve young men, often in drink-fuelled, random acts of violence.​

I recall one of my brother's friends had an altercation with a nightclub bouncer, who proceeded to give the guy a sudden left hook.

My brother's friend ended up in hospital with brain damage.

However, vis-a-vis a comment made by the OP, if my girlfriend assaulted me with a glass bottle or left actual bodily harm in the form of scars with an ashtray, I seriously doubt that I'd still remain in that relationship, personally speaking. It would be an immediate red-flag.

Physical abuse is physical abuse and in my book she would've had no right to do that, as it's a violation of my bodily integrity, no matter her gender.

Men are stronger and usually bigger with more muscle mass than women, so yes we have a far greater responsibility for gentleness and non-retaliation and any man that hits a woman (unless it's an accident and he's literally defending his life or at risk of being assaulted with a knife or something) is a beast as far as I'm concerned, but still it's never ever ok to assault anyone of any gender.

 

[ChristineM]

If so, then the OP is rather pointless.
It's another example of incels being potential mass murderers.
Just grist for an echo chamber's mill, eh.

Wrong, you have it arse about face, following the recent mass murder in Plymouth @Justanatheist wanted to know what Incel was all about.

It seems you took exception to some of the replies for some reason, not usually like you at all. However if you feel its a thread about incels being potential mass murderers could you please point out the posts indicating this?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Or a man, for that matter.

Many men have been killed outright by a one punch blow to the head from another man. In fact, statistically afaik, the victims of one punch blows tend overwhelmingly to be other males, because the vast majority of men would never even dream of lifting a finger to a woman:


One-punch deaths: How lives are devastated by a single blow

While no official figures are available on one-punch deaths, the campaign group One Punch Can Kill has recorded more than 80 fatalities since 2007.

Many of the cases have attracted media attention - in large part because it seems extraordinary that one punch can kill.

Many one-punch killings involve young men, often in drink-fuelled, random acts of violence.​

I recall one of my brother's friends had an altercation with a nightclub bouncer, who proceeded to give the guy a sudden left hook.

My brother's friend ended up in hospital with brain damage.

However, vis-a-vis a comment made by the OP, if my girlfriend assaulted me with a glass bottle or left actual bodily harm in the form of scars with an ashtray, I seriously doubt that I'd still remain in that relationship, personally speaking. It would be an immediate red-flag.

Physical abuse is physical abuse and in my book she would've had no right to do that, as it's a violation of my bodily integrity, no matter her gender.

Men are stronger and usually bigger with more muscle mass than women, so yes we have a far greater responsibility for gentleness and non-retaliation and any man that hits a woman (unless it's an accident and he's literally defending his life or at risk of being assaulted with a knife or something) is a beast as far as I'm concerned, but still it's never ever ok to assault anyone of any gender.

I agree with this entire post.

 

[Stevicus]

It's a big subject so I'm not sure where to begin. I'll start with....

Women recover from long term injuries slower than men. And have less strength.

If she punches a man, it's terrible, but he'll likely survive it. A lot of women don't know the proper way to punch, anyway. They weren't taught it. Not trying to be sexist, just relaying my experience.

If a man punches a woman with all his strength, it could kill her.

If a woman punches hard enough, or uses some kind of object or weapon, then it can be just as bad. I don't think a man is forbidden to defend himself at all. He might have to pull his punches or measure the amount of force he uses - at least enough to defend himself and stop the woman from punching him. Not enough to kill her or do any real damage, but just to get her to stop.

 

[Justanatheist]

However, vis-a-vis a comment made by the OP, if my girlfriend assaulted me with a glass bottle or left actual bodily harm in the form of scars with an ashtray, I seriously doubt that I'd still remain in that relationship, personally speaking. It would be an immediate red-flag.

If you knew what she had been through and the relationships she had to endure and how some men had treated her you might reconsider, I am not an idiot, but sometimes you have to say "am I able to help and live with the consequences". 30 years on we are still best of friends and I still love her to bits Never regretted my decision to stay and never regretted never having hit her back.

 

[SomeRandom]

Or a man, for that matter.

Many men have been killed outright by a one punch blow to the head from another man. In fact, statistically afaik, the victims of one punch blows tend overwhelmingly to be other males, because the vast majority of men would never even dream of lifting a finger to a woman:


One-punch deaths: How lives are devastated by a single blow

While no official figures are available on one-punch deaths, the campaign group One Punch Can Kill has recorded more than 80 fatalities since 2007.

Many of the cases have attracted media attention - in large part because it seems extraordinary that one punch can kill.

Many one-punch killings involve young men, often in drink-fuelled, random acts of violence.​

I recall one of my brother's friends had an altercation with a nightclub bouncer, who proceeded to give the guy a sudden left hook.

My brother's friend ended up in hospital with brain damage.

However, vis-a-vis a comment made by the OP, if my girlfriend assaulted me with a glass bottle or left actual bodily harm in the form of scars with an ashtray, I seriously doubt that I'd still remain in that relationship, personally speaking. It would be an immediate red-flag.

Physical abuse is physical abuse and in my book she would've had no right to do that, as it's a violation of my bodily integrity, no matter her gender.

Men are stronger and usually bigger with more muscle mass than women, so yes we have a far greater responsibility for gentleness and non-retaliation and any man that hits a woman (unless it's an accident and he's literally defending his life or at risk of being assaulted with a knife or something) is a beast as far as I'm concerned, but still it's never ever ok to assault anyone of any gender.

Male on male violence and the causes are a legitimate concern in feminist discourse, to be fair. In my opinion it is a serious issue that needs to be addressed.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sounds like I need to be careful then. If I punch a man in the shoulder, he could misunderstand it and punch me in the forehead with all his strength.

A good rule of thumb is to never assault someone, by punching
or any other method. Refraining from assaulting another is the
moral thing to do, but it's also practical cuz one avoids the risk
of retaliation. Just don't hit.

Or better yet, we can actually apply a lot more nuances to the subject of attacks and defending yourself, so we don't get into some terrible situations that have us pleading our innocence before a judge, even if we believe we were completely in the right.

Have you ever defended yourself when physically assaulted?
I have.
I've always limited response to what I thought reasonable
& efficacious. I'm fortunate to have never even injured anyone,
or been injured.
Caution: Not everyone will be as lucky as I've been.
Self defense can be unpredictable.