Why only a part of this universe? Why not outside?
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Infinite time and space.
- Thread starter worsewicked
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Why only a part of this universe? Why not outside?
swamplizard
Human
Hi Poly,
1 exists. The rest is a quantification of units (1) based upon imagination. There is real (1) and there is concept. All that is, is of the infinite one. Parameters are illusory and require the concept of measurement that has no "real" validity within the infinite one.
best regards,
swampy
swamplizard
Human
If a "vacuum" is "void" of anything, then it is nothing and thus does not exist. If it does exist, it is and has something and thus is not a vacuum.
best,
swampy
best,
swampy
outhouse
Atheistically
outhouse
Atheistically
Spacetime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In physics, spacetime (or space-time, space time, space-time continuum) is any mathematical model that combines space and time into a single continuum. Spacetime is usually interpreted with space as being three-dimensional and time playing the role of a fourth dimension that is of a different sort from the spatial dimensions. According to certain Euclidean space perceptions, the universe has three dimensions of space and one dimension of time. By combining space and time into a single manifold, physicists have significantly simplified a large number of physical theories, as well as described in a more uniform way the workings of the universe at both the supergalactic and subatomic levels.
In non-relativistic classical mechanics, the use of Euclidean space instead of spacetime is appropriate, as time is treated as universal and constant, being independent of the state of motion of an observer. In relativistic contexts, time cannot be separated from the three dimensions of space, because the observed rate at which time passes for an object depends on the object's velocity relative to the observer and also on the strength of gravitational fields, which can slow the passage of time.
In cosmology, the concept of spacetime combines space and time to a single abstract universe. Mathematically it is a manifold consisting of "events" which are described by some type of coordinate system. Typically three spatial dimensions (length, width, height), and one temporal dimension (time) are required. Dimensions are independent components of a coordinate grid needed to locate a point in a certain defined "space". For example, on the globe the latitude and longitude are two independent coordinates which together uniquely determine a location. In spacetime, a coordinate grid that spans the 3+1 dimensions locates events (rather than just points in space), i.e. time is added as another dimension to the coordinate grid. This way the coordinates specify where and when events occur. However, the unified nature of spacetime and the freedom of coordinate choice it allows imply that to express the temporal coordinate in one coordinate system requires both temporal and spatial coordinates in another coordinate system. Unlike in normal spatial coordinates, there are still restrictions for how measurements can be made spatially and temporally (see Spacetime intervals). These restrictions correspond roughly to a particular mathematical model which differs from Euclidean space in its manifest symmetry.
Until the beginning of the 20th century, time was believed to be independent of motion, progressing at a fixed rate in all reference frames; however, later experiments revealed that time slowed down at higher speeds of the reference frame relative to another reference frame (with such slowing called "time dilation" explained in the theory of "special relativity"). Many experiments have confirmed time dilation, such as atomic clocks onboard a Space Shuttle running slower than synchronized Earth-bound inertial clocks and the relativistic decay of muons from cosmic ray showers. The duration of time can therefore vary for various events and various reference frames. When dimensions are understood as mere components of the grid system, rather than physical attributes of space, it is easier to understand the alternate dimensional views as being simply the result of coordinate transformations.
The term spacetime has taken on a generalized meaning beyond treating spacetime events with the normal 3+1 dimensions. It is really the combination of space and time. Other proposed spacetime theories include additional dimensions—normally spatial but there exist some speculative theories that include additional temporal dimensions and even some that include dimensions that are neither temporal nor spatial. How many dimensions are needed to describe the universe is still an open question. Speculative theories such as string theory predict 10 or 26 dimensions (with M-theory predicting 11 dimensions: 10 spatial and 1 temporal), but the existence of more than four dimensions would only appear to make a difference at the subatomic level
In physics, spacetime (or space-time, space time, space-time continuum) is any mathematical model that combines space and time into a single continuum. Spacetime is usually interpreted with space as being three-dimensional and time playing the role of a fourth dimension that is of a different sort from the spatial dimensions. According to certain Euclidean space perceptions, the universe has three dimensions of space and one dimension of time. By combining space and time into a single manifold, physicists have significantly simplified a large number of physical theories, as well as described in a more uniform way the workings of the universe at both the supergalactic and subatomic levels.
In non-relativistic classical mechanics, the use of Euclidean space instead of spacetime is appropriate, as time is treated as universal and constant, being independent of the state of motion of an observer. In relativistic contexts, time cannot be separated from the three dimensions of space, because the observed rate at which time passes for an object depends on the object's velocity relative to the observer and also on the strength of gravitational fields, which can slow the passage of time.
In cosmology, the concept of spacetime combines space and time to a single abstract universe. Mathematically it is a manifold consisting of "events" which are described by some type of coordinate system. Typically three spatial dimensions (length, width, height), and one temporal dimension (time) are required. Dimensions are independent components of a coordinate grid needed to locate a point in a certain defined "space". For example, on the globe the latitude and longitude are two independent coordinates which together uniquely determine a location. In spacetime, a coordinate grid that spans the 3+1 dimensions locates events (rather than just points in space), i.e. time is added as another dimension to the coordinate grid. This way the coordinates specify where and when events occur. However, the unified nature of spacetime and the freedom of coordinate choice it allows imply that to express the temporal coordinate in one coordinate system requires both temporal and spatial coordinates in another coordinate system. Unlike in normal spatial coordinates, there are still restrictions for how measurements can be made spatially and temporally (see Spacetime intervals). These restrictions correspond roughly to a particular mathematical model which differs from Euclidean space in its manifest symmetry.
Until the beginning of the 20th century, time was believed to be independent of motion, progressing at a fixed rate in all reference frames; however, later experiments revealed that time slowed down at higher speeds of the reference frame relative to another reference frame (with such slowing called "time dilation" explained in the theory of "special relativity"). Many experiments have confirmed time dilation, such as atomic clocks onboard a Space Shuttle running slower than synchronized Earth-bound inertial clocks and the relativistic decay of muons from cosmic ray showers. The duration of time can therefore vary for various events and various reference frames. When dimensions are understood as mere components of the grid system, rather than physical attributes of space, it is easier to understand the alternate dimensional views as being simply the result of coordinate transformations.
The term spacetime has taken on a generalized meaning beyond treating spacetime events with the normal 3+1 dimensions. It is really the combination of space and time. Other proposed spacetime theories include additional dimensions—normally spatial but there exist some speculative theories that include additional temporal dimensions and even some that include dimensions that are neither temporal nor spatial. How many dimensions are needed to describe the universe is still an open question. Speculative theories such as string theory predict 10 or 26 dimensions (with M-theory predicting 11 dimensions: 10 spatial and 1 temporal), but the existence of more than four dimensions would only appear to make a difference at the subatomic level
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
Because if it's not part of this universe, you don't mean anything coherent by "vacuum".
If 1 exists, the empty set ({}) must also exist. Therefore, logically, the set { {}, {1} } also exists. The size of this set is 2; that must also exist.
"1" is just an abstraction. It is equally as real as any other abstraction.
Empty containers can exist just fine.
swamplizard
Human
Because if it's not part of this universe, you don't mean anything coherent by "vacuum".
If 1 exists, the empty set ({}) must also exist. Therefore, logically, the set { {}, {1} } also exists. The size of this set is 2; that must also exist.
"1" is just an abstraction. It is equally as real as any other abstraction.
Empty containers can exist just fine.
Hey Poly,
The "thought" of 1 (within many) is an abstraction, I agree. The reality of 1 is not parcel to thought nor imagination, it simply is; zero does not exist. The set you describe is one set, it is still an abstraction, but is 1 nonetheless.
A container is something and thus exists. A void is not a container and does not exist.
best regards,
swampy
Because if it's not part of this universe, you don't mean anything coherent by "vacuum".
You know I'm talking about the space vacuum not the vacuum cleaner
I read what you posted, I have yet to know why you think vacuum does not exist beyond our universe.
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
Of course, if a vacuum is a region of space that contains no matter (or energy), then it still requires dimension. If dimension is a property of our universe, then any space that can contain a vacuum must be inside our universe, and there can be no vacuum outside our universe.
Why would dimension only be within our universe? And why does it require dimension?
Sure, if that's what you call logic than Atlantis exists because it exists.
Why so? I'm sure the space/vacuum between the earth and the moon requires absolutely none.
outhouse
Atheistically
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
How in the world do you get that?
Dimensions were created with the universe. Outside our universe there is no dimension. A vacuum requires space in which to exist. Without dimension there can be no space. Any space where there is a vacuum must have dimension, and since dimension can only exist in the universe (and not outside the universe), any vacuum must exist within our universe. There is no vacuum outside our universe.
What the hell...?
You do realise that distance is a measure of one or more dimensions, yes? If there is distance between Earth and the moon, then there is dimension.
I asked for reasoning behind this argument, not you repeating it.
Still, the space doesn't need the two there to exist. It's not like it's going to just erase if nothing existed at all.
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
Well, since what you said about Atlantis did not follow at all from what I said, then it was obvious to me that you did not understand what I said. So I repeated it so you could understand.
And the logic behind it comes from Einstein. You've heard of spacetime, yes?
If there was no distance between the earth and the moon then the two would be in contact. Since the moon is obviously not touching the Earth, then there is some distance between the earth and the moon. Distance is a measure of spatial dimension.
My question was: How do you know it's a property of the universe?
You answered: "Because it is a property of the universe"
I have read spacetime posted by outhouse here, I saw no logic noting that it only exists in this universe.
Now don't try to twist my words, I said "if the earth and the moon weren't there it would still be there". Therefore you cannot say "If the space didn't exist..." Because that's not what I said.
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
Perhaps you can provide a place outside our universe where dimension exists?
Anyway, the redshift of distant galaxies is caused by the space between them expanding as a result of the Big Bang. This is pretty good evidence that dimension is a property of the universe just as fabric is a property of your bedsheets.
Sorry, misread.
The space would still be there, yes?
No I cannot, but I'm not making the claim that there are dimensions outside of the universe, I'm just asking how you seem to know that there isn't any.
How is redshift evidence that there are no dimensions beyond our universe exactly? I know dimension is a property of the universe, but I want to know why you think it is ONLY a property of the universe.
So even if there are not dimensions beyond the universe, there can still be space.