Is America a Police state?

[Revoltingest]

Debtor's prison is becoming more popular with government.
This case is just a horrible tip of the iceberg....
Pennsylvania mom of 7 dies in jail over unpaid school-related fines - EAGnews.org powered by Education Action Group Foundation, Inc.
Owe the government money?
Can't afford to pay them?
They toss you in jail & charge you for it.
Then you're more likely to have lost your job, so you still can't pay, so they toss you in jail, &.....you get the picture.

 

[freethinker44]

Debtor's prison is becoming more popular with government.
This case is just a horrible tip of the iceberg....
Pennsylvania mom of 7 dies in jail over unpaid school-related fines - EAGnews.org powered by Education Action Group Foundation, Inc.
Owe the government money?
Can't afford to pay them?
They toss you in jail & charge you for it.
Then you're more likely to have lost your job, so you still can't pay, so they toss you in jail, &.....you get the picture.

Debtor's prison, poor people know them well. Illegal but fully operational. My cousin pays a lot of his fines with jail time. He also almost died in one of his stays over some minor traffic violations. He got incredibly sick in county jail and they wouldn't get him medical help. One of the guys in the cell with him finally got someone to check on him and he had a crazy high temperature so they took him to a free clinic and dropped him off. He went back when he was well to find out what was going on with his sentence and they acted like they never seen him before.

He is about to go to trial later this month to try to avoid more jail time for unpaid tickets. He had been paying on them but he lost his job so the person at the police station who handles that stuff told him to go to the courthouse and plead guilty and she would speak on his behalf and the judge should give him leniency since he was paying his fines. He went, the judge read his charge, he plead guilty so the judge told him to go see the bailiff to be taken to jail, so he immediately retracted his plea and plead not guilty which infuriated the judge so the judge told him when comes back for trial, even if he pays all his fines by then, he is going to try him as a habitual offender and try to get him up 5 years in jail. FOR PETTY TRAFFIC FINES.

Don't be poor in America.

 

[oldbadger]

Debtor's prison is becoming more popular with government.
This case is just a horrible tip of the iceberg....
Pennsylvania mom of 7 dies in jail over unpaid school-related fines - EAGnews.org powered by Education Action Group Foundation, Inc.
Owe the government money?
Can't afford to pay them?
They toss you in jail & charge you for it.
Then you're more likely to have lost your job, so you still can't pay, so they toss you in jail, &.....you get the picture.

A very sad incident......

We send folks to prison in Britistan if they do not pay fines.

More to the point, and as a result of Ms DiNino's death, what would you like to do about truancy violations in future?

You could save a lot of money by just overlooking truancy?
You could issue fines but 'leave it' if they can't be paid?

How would you handle this situation if you were the decision maker?

 

[Revoltingest]

A very sad incident......
We send folks to prison in Britistan if they do not pay fines.
More to the point, and as a result of Ms DiNino's death, what would you like to do about truancy violations in future?
You could save a lot of money by just overlooking truancy?
You could issue fines but 'leave it' if they can't be paid?
How would you handle this situation if you were the decision maker?

Clearly, something in between death in jail & ignoring the problem would be useful.
Put her picture on the side of a bus with a sign that says "BAD MOM!"?

 

[oldbadger]

he is going to try him as a habitual offender and try to get him up 5 years in jail. FOR PETTY TRAFFIC FINES.

Don't be poor in America.

I'm sorry to read about your poor cousin. How many petty traffic fines does he have? What were they for?

If you had the power, how would you handle petty traffic violations?

 

[oldbadger]

Clearly, something in between death in jail & ignoring the problem would be useful.
Put her picture on the side of a bus with a sign that says "BAD MOM!"?

Ms DiNino only had 55 truancy violations, any one of which (in Americanistan) holds a max sentence of 5 days' jail.

But if you put her features on the side of a bus, saying 'Bad Mom', surely self righteous folks will beat her up, won't they? Neighbourhood bullying? Psychological torture? You need to do better than that, surely?

 

[Revoltingest]

Ms DiNino only had 55 truancy violations, any one of which (in Americanistan) holds a max sentence of 5 days' jail.

But if you put her features on the side of a bus, saying 'Bad Mom', surely self righteous folks will beat her up, won't they? Neighbourhood bullying? Psychological torture? You need to do better than that, surely?

We have real estate agents put their pix on the sides of buses, & they don't get beaten up.

 

[oldbadger]

We have real estate agents put their pix on the sides of buses, & they don't get beaten up.

Yeah..... or rather, No. But Real Estate Agents send their kids to school, maybe?

Come on........ what would you like to do about truancy in your country? You could save a billion, just by leaving it, 'cos you could make the truancy inspectors redundant, save on Court costs....... etc etc.

Would you like to do that?

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah..... or rather, No. But Real Estate Agents send their kids to school, maybe?

Come on........ what would you like to do about truancy in your country? You could save a billion, just by leaving it, 'cos you could make the truancy inspectors redundant, save on Court costs....... etc etc.
Would you like to do that?

Since I've never given thought to an anti-truancy program, I'd hate idly guess.
I only advocate for better solutions than debtor's prison & possible death.

 

[oldbadger]

Since I've never given thought to an anti-truancy program, I'd hate idly guess.
I only advocate for better solutions than debtor's prison & possible death.

Is that a cop out?
Come on...... you can do better. You have grown up children now.
If you held the responsibility..... and the power, would like to 'means test' truancy defaulters? If their income is under a certain amount, and if they are on benefits, then they either don't get fined, or they (ultimately) don't have to pay their fines....?

What do you think?

 

[oldbadger]

Are you having trouble with this....?

Look, you can't send poor folks to jail for non payment of fines!
Look...... 1500 folks have been jailed in Berk County alone.....since 2001..... for non payment of fines!
How many counties are there in Americanistan?

Now what are you going to do?

 

[oldbadger]

It's fine to criticise your country's policies and decisions, but critics have got to be able to propose better policies, better decisions, or their posts look pathetic.

I'll say no more.......... on this one.....

 

[Revoltingest]

Is that a cop out?
Come on...... you can do better. You have grown up children now.
If you held the responsibility..... and the power, would like to 'means test' truancy defaulters? If their income is under a certain amount, and if they are on benefits, then they either don't get fined, or they (ultimately) don't have to pay their fines....?

What do you think?

Are you having trouble with this....?

Look, you can't send poor folks to jail for non payment of fines!
Look...... 1500 folks have been jailed in Berk County alone.....since 2001..... for non payment of fines!
How many counties are there in Americanistan?

Now what are you going to do?

I've wondered before how to handle truancy in a fashion which is fair to all, rich & poor, or in/out of control of the kids. And I really don't know what general approach is best. But yes, people are jailed for non-payment of fines or friend of the court orders.

 

[oldbadger]

I've wondered before how to handle truancy in a fashion which is fair to all, rich & poor, or in/out of control of the kids. And I really don't know what general approach is best. But yes, people are jailed for non-payment of fines or friend of the court orders.

We know that!
So........ decision time!
If a poor person can't pay a fine, and won't attend for community service in lieu, and won't respond to court orders.....

WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO DO?

 

[freethinker44]

It's fine to criticise your country's policies and decisions, but critics have got to be able to propose better policies, better decisions, or their posts look pathetic.

Not really, I mean, that's what we pay policy makers and public servants for. It's kind of a fallacy to assume criticism is only legitimate if a solution to the problem is also presented. Any idiot can see the problems that exist, they live them, but that doesn't mean they are qualified to solve the problems. Just because they can't solve the problem doesn't mean their criticism of it is pathetic.

 

[oldbadger]

Not really, I mean, that's what we pay policy makers and public servants for. It's kind of a fallacy to assume criticism is only legitimate if a solution to the problem is also presented. Any idiot can see the problems that exist, they live them, but that doesn't mean they are qualified to solve the problems. Just because they can't solve the problem doesn't mean their criticism of it is pathetic.

I have to tell you that this is a cop out.
Now..... what do you want to do?

If poor people on benefits or low wages commit traffic penalties and violations, but cannot pay fines, do not want to do community service and will not respond to Court Orders........ what should happen?

 

[freethinker44]

I have to tell you that this is a cop out.
Now..... what do you want to do?

It's not a cop out. I'm not a lawyer or a politician, I don't work in the prison industrial complex, I'm not a cop, I'm not a judge, I'm not a sociologist or psychologist, I didn't study law, I'm simply not qualified to solve these kinds of problems, but what I can do is I can pay qualified people to solve these problems instead.

If poor people on benefits or low wages commit traffic penalties and violations, but cannot pay fines, do not want to do community service and will not respond to Court Orders........ what should happen?

What should happen? I should go to the town council meeting, write a letter to my congressman, petition the president, take it before the supreme court, and tell them to do something about this problem.

 

[Revoltingest]

Ya know, I'd think people would get tire of me pontificating on every issue & field under the sun, eg, engineering, economics, government, psychiatry, religion, science, geography, landscaping, biology. So one of the few times I plead utter ignorance, I get upbraided for it. (In Australia, do they get "downbraided"?) Still, the badger is at least entertaining & mirthful in his scorn for me.

 

[Valjean]

Anyone else catch this article in The Guardian today? Dept of defense is developing new methods of manipulating dissent and keeping us safe.
What could go wrong?
Pentagon preparing for mass civil breakdown | Nafeez Ahmed | Environment | theguardian.com

Citing a summary critique of the programme sent to HTS directors by a former employee, Price reported that the HTS training scenarios "adapted COIN [counterinsurgency] for Afghanistan/Iraq" to domestic situations "in the USA where the local population was seen from the military perspective as threatening the established balance of power and influence, and challenging law and order."

Minerva is a prime example of the deeply narrow-minded and self-defeating nature of military ideology. Worse still, the unwillingness of DoD officials to answer the most basic questions is symptomatic of a simple fact – in their unswerving mission to defend an increasingly unpopular global system serving the interests of a tiny minority, security agencies have no qualms about painting the rest of us as potential terrorists.

 

[kashmir]

Debtor's prison is becoming more popular with government.
This case is just a horrible tip of the iceberg....
Pennsylvania mom of 7 dies in jail over unpaid school-related fines - EAGnews.org powered by Education Action Group Foundation, Inc.
Owe the government money?
Can't afford to pay them?
They toss you in jail & charge you for it.
Then you're more likely to have lost your job, so you still can't pay, so they toss you in jail, &.....you get the picture.

I dont mean to be that guy, but I will.
I understand the whole situation of her dying in jail is screwed up, but look at what got her there(not saying she deserved to die, so dont go there)

She had 7 kids that she could not afford to have, nor kept them in school.
Apparently she failed as a parent.

DiNino had no ability to pay her $2,000 fine. She was reportedly unemployed, on welfare, and completely overwhelmed by her children.

To me that is what is wrong here in the first place.
I live in poverty, women have kids, don't even plan on it, but just sleep around and the kids are completely neglected and raise themselves.
7 kids and on welfare?
The kids didn't attend school like they were supposed to?
I am sure she tried to make them, because she knew it would eventually come back on her.
Where are the fathers?
I am sure there is more than one and even if it's just one guy, whats she doing having kids with dead beat sperm donors?

I feel sorry for the kids, most of all.
To be brought in this world and into a household like this.

Yes the daddies are $%^&() but the mom is worse, she allowed herself to become preggy and worst of all, knowing she couldn't take care of 7 of them by herself.

As I said, I live in poverty, I know the drill, kids to ppl like her are extra money from welfare to spend on herself.
You get more than enough to pay off fines, they will take $5 a month on payment plan.
She thought she could just play the system, and I can just imagine that house hold, smelt of dirty diapers and the preteens taking care of the toddlers and the teens coming and going as they please.

Mark my words, the Gov will have to do something, because people just dont give a rats behind, having sex and oops, I cant afford the kid, happens 24/7 52 weeks a year.

As I said, the kids in the situation really matter to me most of all, I hope they are in a safe situation now.
No mommy, never had a daddy and God help them.

People can ignore that all they wish and blame the system, the system didnt make her have 7 kids that she couldnt afford or raise properly, she did that.
The system fed the kids and housed them, then they got involved when they didnt attend school.
perhaps they should have just never did the fine parents thing.

Then we have uneducated kids, eventually having more kids, and the cycle continues.
Plus, atheists claim that religious people try to halt school teaching, so now what?
go figure that one, we must educate our kids, but we still get to blame the system for punishing parents like her for not doing her job in keeping the kids in schools.