Is America a Police state?

[freethinker44]

The thing is, police do not even know the laws that well. That's what a judge is for. The police make a call based on what they see, or claim to have seen, and it is up to the judge to actually decide if the action was illegal or not.

If police actually did this - and I'm sure many do - then they are actually committing a crime. It is 100% their job to know the law before they arrest you or even detain you for an investigation. If they don't have a lawful reason beforehand then they are committing a false arrest/imprisonment. This is in part why legal advice for interacting with police tells you to ask if you are being detained, because if not you are free to leave but if they say yes they have just committed a crime if they don't have a lawful reason to detain you.

So it's not up to the judge to determine whether or not you've committed a crime, it's up to the police. They can't just go around arresting people for made up reasons and hope that a judge agrees with them. Actually, I shouldn't say they can't do that, I should say they aren't supposed to do that, "can't" implies that it doesn't happen and I'm sure that it does.

 

[freethinker44]

It used to make me upset hearing these stories, now it just makes me pity the deputies who do such things.

Don't pity them, pity their victims.

 

[The Adept]

They like arresting women for being legally topless too.
They kept getting their selves sued so after 20 years they decided to comply with the law.
More or less.

 

[Thruve]

Don't pity them, pity their victims.

Of course! But i can't do anything in the moment can I? Except become angry. So I feel bad for the deputy because he so sad inside. You have to be really sad inside to do such things willingly.

 

[Thruve]

If police actually did this - and I'm sure many do - then they are actually committing a crime. It is 100% their job to know the law before they arrest you or even detain you for an investigation. If they don't have a lawful reason beforehand then they are committing a false arrest/imprisonment. This is in part why legal advice for interacting with police tells you to ask if you are being detained, because if not you are free to leave but if they say yes they have just committed a crime if they don't have a lawful reason to detain you.

So it's not up to the judge to determine whether or not you've committed a crime, it's up to the police. They can't just go around arresting people for made up reasons and hope that a judge agrees with them. Actually, I shouldn't say they can't do that, I should say they aren't supposed to do that, "can't" implies that it doesn't happen and I'm sure that it does.

It does happen, and often through manipulating suspects. Im sure deputies often pray for their resistance in situations they know otherwise they'd be in the wrong. "Either you tell me if you have drugs, or If I search you and find drugs, im arresting you", when the reason your being detained is because your on the property of a closed business after closing hours, for example. Though they know your reason for being on property of a closed business after closing hours is possibly drug related, they set you up, rather than arresting you for trespassing, a misdemeanor in most situations, the posession of narcotics in certain quantities would otherwise be a felony, or if a misdemeanor, one the judge still wouldn't dismiss.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

The result of NY's failed policies....

'Gentle Giant' Dies After NYPD Cop Puts Him In Chokehold

The article says the video o the incident was removed but here it is. This is traffic and just one more reason to hate these stopping tactics police use...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LSBpwmMnVM

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If police actually did this - and I'm sure many do - then they are actually committing a crime. It is 100% their job to know the law before they arrest you or even detain you for an investigation. If they don't have a lawful reason beforehand then they are committing a false arrest/imprisonment. This is in part why legal advice for interacting with police tells you to ask if you are being detained, because if not you are free to leave but if they say yes they have just committed a crime if they don't have a lawful reason to detain you.

So it's not up to the judge to determine whether or not you've committed a crime, it's up to the police. They can't just go around arresting people for made up reasons and hope that a judge agrees with them. Actually, I shouldn't say they can't do that, I should say they aren't supposed to do that, "can't" implies that it doesn't happen and I'm sure that it does.

While that is true, as you mentioned, it is strongly a part of "aren't supposed to," and there are many people that are detained but have committed no crime. But, to some cops (I think the story was posted on this thread) breaking into dance in a mostly empty subway station is a crime and the perps must be charged.

 

[Revoltingest]

Distracted cop blows thru red light & causes accident.
No ticket is issued.
They just don't hold their own accountable.

The Associated Press

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The result of NY's failed policies....

'Gentle Giant' Dies After NYPD Cop Puts Him In Chokehold

The article says the video o the incident was removed but here it is. This is traffic and just one more reason to hate these stopping tactics police use...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LSBpwmMnVM

I'm just reading about this. I watched the video there and there's another video showing what happened after the first one ended up to when he was taken away by the EMS. They really killed that man. They're murderers. I don't give a damn what they say the autopsy says. It's all on film. They let that man die, not offering any help at all, even as he pleaded with them. He was obviously dead within minutes of being taken down, but they were lying and trying to act like he was still alive. And now his wife and 6 children will never see their husband/father again. This is just...enraging (I'm trying to stay calm while typing this out because I'm upset over it).

Police departments are overrun with psychopathic pigs: Cops React to the Death of Eric Garner -- NYMag

I can't stand the police. They are monsters and get away with everything when they abuse us and kill us. Fire fighters are the real heroes - they save people while the cops are busy killing people. I hope that one day they all get theirs.

 

[Thruve]

I'm just reading about this. I watched the video there and there's another video showing what happened after the first one ended up to when he was taken away by the EMS. They really killed that man. They're murderers. I don't give a damn what they say the autopsy says. It's all on film. They let that man die, not offering any help at all, even as he pleaded with them. He was obviously dead within minutes of being taken down, but they were lying and trying to act like he was still alive. And now his wife and 6 children will never see their husband/father again. This is just...enraging (I'm trying to stay calm while typing this out because I'm upset over it).

Police departments are overrun with psychopathic pigs: Cops React to the Death of Eric Garner -- NYMag



I can't stand the police. They are monsters and get away with everything when they abuse us and kill us. Fire fighters are the real heroes - they save people while the cops are busying killing people.

Please, remember not all cops act this way as that should calm you down. On the other hand >.> remember that deputies receive a psych evaluation before they are hired, and therefore their not solely at fault, its also the retards that hire them. Any young cop with a police state attitude will more than likely be hired over one without. *Giggle*

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Please, remember not all cops act this way as that should calm you down. On the other hand >.> remember that deputies receive a psych evaluation before they are hired, and therefore their not solely at fault, its also the retards that hire them. Any young cop with a police state attitude will more than likely be hired over one without. *Giggle*

I'm sure there are good cops out there but they're getting drowned in a cesspool of corruption. Read the posts on those forums for police officers. It's completely sickening.

 

[Thruve]

I'm sure there are good cops out there but they're getting drowned in a cesspool of corruption. Read the posts on those forums for police officers. It's completely sickening.

Oh dude, I've seen worse in person lol.
A Few years ago there was a situation where a deputy was racing to get a burglary in Progress, taking a generally active road even whilst it is night out. He Hit a Drunk man crossing the road going 60+, and left the man diminished into nothing but pieces scattered all OVER the road. Nothing happened to him, though technically the drunk man was J-Walking.
The event turned into a laughing stalk among'st the deputies who witnessed it or heard about it, while other witness' were more traumatized over the fact they witnessed a man as a whole become an exploding firework of blood and guts.

I was assured the humorous attitude towards the situation among'st the deputies was to ease the situation, given that accidents do happen, and that the deputy at fault was doing his job and the man was known to be a constant drunk and probably wasn't paying attention. Regardless, the humor the deputies used to ease the situation was quite out of place in my opinion.
--
A deputy friend was once responsible for turning a man into a vegetable. He tazed a man who then fell back onto his head hard enough to cause permanent brain damage. No discipline was given to the deputy, but rather the families attorney demanded the video that apparently tazers take from within the gun it's self along with details as to how long the man was tazed.
--
I've witnessed deputies downtown raise Gun's at individuals over movement within vehicles at a simple traffic stop. Yet, Apparently the most dangerous situations deputies face is over traffic stops, so if your pulled over, especially at night, make no sudden gestures or movements, rather you shall receive a gun barrel pointed at your face. Wait till the deputy makes contact with you before going into your wallet or glove compartment to get your registration.

I've gathered that deputies do things for reasons.. and they mostly do things out of their own safety. Remember they too have families they want to go home to, so if its your life or theirs, they sure as hell are going to choose theirs. Whether we justify them or not, they do take responsibility, socially, for their actions, which is why most of us hate them. They know this is the reason why their disliked so much, which is why their brotherhood prevails -.-

Mind that Im not for them or against them because I see both sides >.>

 

[Revoltingest]

Oh dude, I've seen worse in person lol.
A Few years ago there was a situation where a deputy was racing to get a burglary in Progress, taking a generally active road even whilst it is night out. He Hit a Drunk man crossing the road going 60+, and left the man diminished into nothing but pieces scattered all OVER the road. Nothing happened to him, though technically the drunk man was J-Walking.
The event turned into a laughing stalk among'st the deputies who witnessed it or heard about it, while other witness' were more traumatized over the fact they witnessed a man as a whole become an exploding firework of blood and guts.

I was assured the humorous attitude towards the situation among'st the deputies was to ease the situation, given that accidents do happen, and that the deputy at fault was doing his job and the man was known to be a constant drunk and probably wasn't paying attention. Regardless, the humor the deputies used to ease the situation was quite out of place in my opinion.
--
A deputy friend was once responsible for turning a man into a vegetable. He tazed a man who then fell back onto his head hard enough to cause permanent brain damage. No discipline was given to the deputy, but rather the families attorney demanded the video that apparently tazers take from within the gun it's self along with details as to how long the man was tazed.
--
I've witnessed deputies downtown raise Gun's at individuals over movement within vehicles at a simple traffic stop. Yet, Apparently the most dangerous situations deputies face is over traffic stops, so if your pulled over, especially at night, make no sudden gestures or movements, rather you shall receive a gun barrel pointed at your face. Wait till the deputy makes contact with you before going into your wallet or glove compartment to get your registration.

I've gathered that deputies do things for reasons.. and they mostly do things out of their own safety. Remember they too have families they want to go home to, so if its your life or theirs, they sure as hell are going to choose theirs. Whether we justify them or not, they do take responsibility, socially, for their actions, which is why most of us hate them. They know this is the reason why their disliked so much, which is why their brotherhood prevails -.-

Mind that Im not for them or against them because I see both sides >.>

Aye, they're all individuals.
What concerns us is the extent to which the justice system induces them to abrogate
our civil rights, & the percentage of cops who are incompetent, corrupt, or dangerous.
Btw, I know both good cops, bad cops, & borderline types.

 

[Thruve]

Aye, they're all individuals.
What concerns us is the extent to which the justice system induces them to abrogate
our civil rights, & the percentage of cops who are incompetent, corrupt, or dangerous.
Btw, I know both good cops, bad cops, & borderline types.

Yea I do too, and I also agree with you. Remember they are generally protected, note;
https://www.fldeputysheriffs.org/newsroom/entry/legal-protection-plan

There are many more ways out aside from your own attorney. So, deputies who do asinine things and go un-seen from their authorities, or are rather dismissed by them, get away with them. Also, note that though many of us do fear them, they too have authorities they fear, if not the Sheriff himself xP A deputy I knew once pulled over a Majors kid for speeding but let him go upon pulling up his report and realizing whos son he was, and still got punished pretty harshly. He lost his take home vehicle and some other things for pulling over the Majors Kid who was speeding, though he did let him go. I would of loaded that fook with tickets and sent a message to the major to get your son's shyt together or I will. That'd be my standpoint if I was a deputy, but the brotherhood prevails!!

 

[Revoltingest]

Yea I do too, and I also agree with you. Remember they are generally protected, note;
https://www.fldeputysheriffs.org/newsroom/entry/legal-protection-plan

There are many more ways out aside from your own attorney. So, deputies who do asinine things and go un-seen from their authorities, or are rather dismissed by them, get away with them. Also, note that though many of us do fear them, they too have authorities they fear, if not the Sheriff himself xP A deputy I knew once pulled over a Majors kid for speeding but let him go upon pulling up his report and realizing whos son he was, and still got punished pretty harshly. He lost his take home vehicle and some other things for pulling over the Majors Kid who was speeding, though he did let him go. I would of loaded that fook with tickets and sent a message to the major to get your son's shyt together or I will. That'd be my standpoint if I was a deputy, but the brotherhood prevails!!

And even though this corruption is known, there is seldom any prosecution of the offending cops.
But then, I've seen cases where prosecutors give favorable or adverse treatment for personal reasons.

 

[Thruve]

And even though this corruption is known, there is seldom any prosecution of the offending cops.
But then, I've seen cases where prosecutors give favorable or adverse treatment for personal reasons.

Yea,

http://www.aele.org/law/2009all09/2009-09MLJ101.pdf

Probably that right there ^
Imagine a deputies defense attorney's case, preferably in reference to a handful of things such as saftey, etc.
It does suggest "Appropriate Punishment" henceforth if convicted. It applies to any criminal really, if you read on, not just deputies I dont think.

 

[freethinker44]

There may be some good, moral people who are cops out there, but at the same time it's hard to argue with the logic behind "there is no such thing as a good cop". If they are not the police that are actively committing crimes against the public then they are remaining silent about it or worse, helping to cover it up, or they speak up about it and get fired for crossing "the thin blue line", so the "good" cops either get fired or become complicit in the crimes of their fellow officers, therefore, there are no good cops.

 

[gnomon]

A police state is not about the actions of the cops.

A police state is defined by the actions of the legislators. The legislators who in turn act, in a representative republic, based on the misinformed desires of the public.

Calling the U.S. a police state by focusing on the actions of police officers misses the point. It is the legislative branch of the various states and the Federal government allowing laws to be passed that contradict the Bill of Rights as well as decisions by the SCOTUS that has contradicted the Bill of Rights. It goes beyond bad cops and good cops. There are good cops out there acting out on legally proscribed actions written into law by the legislatures and justified by circuit courts or Scalia that contradict the basic concept of human rights and a free society.

Until we recognize this and campaign on this than the rescinding of those actions by law enforcement which do act against human rights, such as police throwing flash bang grenades into baby cribs without attaining proper information for a raid or the seizing of homes and giving them to private interests, we will not fix the problem.

It's not the police. It's those **** poor legislatures and judges we keep voting for while at the same time polls state we don't like them more than a **** tracking slug on our junk.

 

[esmith]

I posted this on another thread but thought it was more apropos to this thread.

Last night John Stossel had a very "troubling" show on entitled:
Policing America: Security vs Liberty
I do not suspect many on this forum watched it or even knew about it since it was on Fox.

 

[Revoltingest]

I did find this snippet....
Policing America: Security vs. Liberty | Episode Guides | Fox News Reporting | Fox News

The Cato Institute has also covered it...
http://www.cato.org/publications/white-paper/overkill-rise-paramilitary-police-raids-america
http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/catosletter-v11n4.pdf

A danger here is that cops will develop the attitude that we're all the enemy in a war.
And they'll have the numbers, weapons & authority to cause great damage.