Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[shmogie]

It is obvious to psychologists, psychiatrists, biologists, and geneticists. By looking at just a few genes they can fairly accurately predict the sexual orientation of a child, and when they look at the brains of transsexuals they look much more like the brain of their identified sex than than the brain of their birth/assigned sex.

It is who they are. We have found both genetic variance and brain differences.

Speaking of my own experience, I was a miserable wretch longing for death when I was trying to be "who God designed and willed" me to be. I am so much more happier having givin up the charade.

How friendly of you to be so presumptuous as to assume your friends are only lying when they tell you this.

Their "big ol book" to them that is "equal to the Bible" is the Bible. Yes, they have the Book of Mormon, but they also have the Bible.

Obviously you aren't, or you would be aware that there is no "intended use of a word, and that the way words are, their definitions, and they way we use them change. I'm not even 30 and I've seen a ton of words change meanings, change context, I've seen words come and go, and I know that is just a regular function of language.

When you keep saying they can "change in the power of God," you are promoting a form of therapy, the "conversion," "reparative," "pray the gay away," all of it revolves around the idea that you can change your orientation with the "power of god."

It is obvious to psychologists, psychiatrists, biologists, and geneticists. By looking at just a few genes they can fairly accurately predict the sexual orientation of a child, and when they look at the brains of transsexuals they look much more like the brain of their identified sex than than the brain of their birth/assigned sex.

It is who they are. We have found both genetic variance and brain differences.

Speaking of my own experience, I was a miserable wretch longing for death when I was trying to be "who God designed and willed" me to be. I am so much more happier having givin up the charade.

How friendly of you to be so presumptuous as to assume your friends are only lying when they tell you this.

Their "big ol book" to them that is "equal to the Bible" is the Bible. Yes, they have the Book of Mormon, but they also have the Bible.

Obviously you aren't, or you would be aware that there is no "intended use of a word, and that the way words are, their definitions, and they way we use them change. I'm not even 30 and I've seen a ton of words change meanings, change context, I've seen words come and go, and I know that is just a regular function of language.

When you keep saying they can "change in the power of God," you are promoting a form of therapy, the "conversion," "reparative," "pray the gay away," all of it revolves around the idea that you can change your orientation with the "power of god."

It is obvious to psychologists, psychiatrists, biologists, and geneticists. By looking at just a few genes they can fairly accurately predict the sexual orientation of a child, and when they look at the brains of transsexuals they look much more like the brain of their identified sex than than the brain of their birth/assigned sex.

It is who they are. We have found both genetic variance and brain differences.

Speaking of my own experience, I was a miserable wretch longing for death when I was trying to be "who God designed and willed" me to be. I am so much more happier having givin up the charade.

How friendly of you to be so presumptuous as to assume your friends are only lying when they tell you this.

Their "big ol book" to them that is "equal to the Bible" is the Bible. Yes, they have the Book of Mormon, but they also have the Bible.

Obviously you aren't, or you would be aware that there is no "intended use of a word, and that the way words are, their definitions, and they way we use them change. I'm not even 30 and I've seen a ton of words change meanings, change context, I've seen words come and go, and I know that is just a regular function of language.

When you keep saying they can "change in the power of God," you are promoting a form of therapy, the "conversion," "reparative," "pray the gay away," all of it revolves around the idea that you can change your orientation with the "power of god."

Why do you think gay people need to be changed? What you're saying kind of implies it. Ex-gay therapy is known to have great long term negative effects, and often leads to suicide. That's not even going into extreme versions of the so-called therapy like induced vomiting or hitting. If that's the kind of tools your alleged god would use, I'm glad I don't believe in it.

No, I am not promoting a form of therapy, God isn't a therapist. God literally changes people, by their choice, their conviction, their faith, I know it because I have seen it. I promote God , I am not an agent of change, nor a motivator, whatever occurs is between the believer and God. Christ said, "you shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free", from, whatever. I specifically used the terms "might", " I am am not qualified to say"., So, I did not say they were tools God would use. I wish people would READ what is written, instead of what you want to see

 

[shmogie]

Is there free will in heaven?

Yes

 

[Rainbow Mage]

No, I am not promoting a form of therapy, God isn't a therapist. God literally changes people, by their choice, their conviction, their faith, I know it because I have seen it. I promote God , I am not an agent of change, nor a motivator, whatever occurs is between the believer and God. Christ said, "you shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free", from, whatever. I specifically used the terms "might", " I am am not qualified to say"., So, I did not say they were tools God would use. I wish people would READ what is written, instead of what you want to see

You said God 'might' use therapy, so which is it? Also, insisting that God can change people's sexual orientation doesn't prove your position. What evidence do you have of that?

 

[shmogie]

You defended them and you quoted a website that promotes those types of therapies.

Let me ask you this, with the help of god, can a person change their eye colour just by willing it?

We have been down this road before, if it were important to God, he could change you into a toad

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Here are some things for YOU to Google in case you want to get the real scoop, not the plastic information which you have clearly gobbled up like the world's ending:

Slavery is slavery. Owning another human being as property is slavery, it is disgusting, and out of all the things the 10 Commandments could have included, self-ownership and self-determination (meaning you can't be owned as property) was not included.

It was originally a pejorative code word. Queer means strange. Because one is considered "good", and the other "bad" when applied to homosexuals doesn;'t change the fact that both are used not as they are defined. However it is a small point, I don't use either word personally when referring to homosexuals , but if I hear them, I usually know what is meant. You are right in that the language has done some evolving, if I like something, I usually say it's "cool", back in the day we said something was "far out"

So if you can accept that a word like "cool" can change meaning, then why put up a resistance that "gay" also changed meaning?

 

[shmogie]

You said God 'might' use therapy, so which is it? Also, insisting that God can change people's sexual orientation doesn't prove your position. What evidence do you have of that?

I know, and know of people who who were homosexuals, who now are happy heterosexuals with spouses of the opposite sex, and children. You need to go back through the earlier posts in this thread, these things you are bringing up have been discussed previously. "might use therapy" God might use a death sentence, a movie or book, a look at the stars through a good telescope, to change people. So what's your point ?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I know, and know of people who who were homosexuals, who now are happy heterosexuals with spouses of the opposite sex, and children. You need to go back through the earlier posts in this thread, these things you are bringing up have been discussed previously. "might use therapy" God might use a death sentence, a movie or book, a look at the stars through a good telescope, to change people. So what's your point ?

Saying god might use therapy is you saying that such cruel and abusive treatments are justified, rather you realize it or not. You're just bringing up more dimensions of the problem of god and evil. Also, how do you know the people you claim are now heterosexual actually are? You do realize that homosexuality is an attraction? In that case, heterosexuality would be a choice, but it doesn't change who they are.

 

[shmogie]

Slavery is slavery. Owning another human being as property is slavery, it is disgusting, and out of all the things the 10 Commandments could have included, self-ownership and self-determination (meaning you can't be owned as property) was not included.

So if you can accept that a word like "cool" can change meaning, then why put up a resistance that "gay" also changed meaning?

What difference does it make to you what words I choose or do not choose to use.? I don't use "gay" as a euphemism for homosexual, I don't use queer as a euphemism for homosexual, Now=, in addition to controlling my thoughts, you want to control my use of the English language ? Whew, you certainly are overbearing aren't you ? After years of having to wear a suit every day, except for going to church, funerals and weddings, I only wears shorts and a T shirt, do you want to control how I dress too ?

 

[shmogie]

Saying god might use therapy is you saying that such cruel and abusive treatments are justified, rather you realize it or not. You're just bringing up more dimensions of the problem of god and evil. Also, how do you know the people you claim are now heterosexual actually are? You do realize that homosexuality is an attraction? In that case, heterosexuality would be a choice, but it doesn't change who they are.

Sigh, How do I know people who are homosexuals actually are, Duh, I take their word for it. Once again, you didn't read, I said I knew nothing about that kind of therapy and wasn't qualified to address it. I have never seen such a bunch of hypersensitive, looking for any excuse to condemn people in my life. Pick, pick, pick. We are all free to believe what we choose, as long as you have certified it as the only thing we can choose. What utter bull

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why do you think gay people need to be changed? What you're saying kind of implies it. Ex-gay therapy is known to have great long term negative effects, and often leads to suicide. That's not even going into extreme versions of the so-called therapy like induced vomiting or hitting. If that's the kind of tools your alleged god would use, I'm glad I don't believe in it.

To reiterate my point, you don't even need to be involved in this 'therapy" to suffer the consequences. Just the environment alone of "wicked gays" and "god changing someone on a spiritual level" can turn a childhood and teen-years into a miserable nightmare.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What difference does it make to you what words I choose or do not choose to use.? I don't use "gay" as a euphemism for homosexual, I don't use queer as a euphemism for homosexual, Now=, in addition to controlling my thoughts, you want to control my use of the English language ? Whew, you certainly are overbearing aren't you ? After years of having to wear a suit every day, except for going to church, funerals and weddings, I only wears shorts and a T shirt, do you want to control how I dress too ?

As with the anger and flailing mind, you've not seen any efforts to control.
You are the one who tried to say gay means happy, which it does, but it also means homosexual. It's called a "synonym."

 

[SkepticThinker]

We have been down this road before, if it were important to God, he could change you into a toad

When has anything like that ever happened? That's a pretty big claim you're making there.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Sigh, How do I know people who are homosexuals actually are, Duh, I take their word for it. Once again, you didn't read, I said I knew nothing about that kind of therapy and wasn't qualified to address it. I have never seen such a bunch of hypersensitive, looking for any excuse to condemn people in my life. Pick, pick, pick. We are all free to believe what we choose, as long as you have certified it as the only thing we can choose. What utter bull

Did you mean heterosexuals?

As for believing what we choose to- it is true we can, but that doesn't make it so. Your belief that homosexuality can be changed has no basis in observable fact.

 

[shmogie]

Did you mean heterosexuals?

As for believing what we choose to- it is true we can, but that doesn't make it so. Your belief that homosexuality can be changed has no basis in observable fact.

No, I meant homosexuals. It has total basis in the facts I have observed. I have gone the limit on this in earlier post's, you won't change me, so to save your time and mine, stop trying

 

[shmogie]

When has anything like that ever happened? That's a pretty big claim you're making there.

God makes the claim, I believe it

 

[shmogie]

As with the anger and flailing mind, you've not seen any efforts to control.
You are the one who tried to say gay means happy, which it does, but it also means homosexual. It's called a "synonym."

In your mind, original etiology proves otherwise. Drop it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[SkepticThinker]

God makes the claim, I believe it

Wait, so you demand "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" that homosexuality is not a choice but you just believe, without ever having seen any such thing, that the god you worship can turn people into toads? And can also change the sexual orientation people were born with for them?

Those are some interesting double standards you have there.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

No, I meant homosexuals. It has total basis in the facts I have observed. I have gone the limit on this in earlier post's, you won't change me, so to save your time and mine, stop trying

Okay...

Not sure where you get the idea I'm coming at you or something. (shrug)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In your mind, original etiology proves otherwise. Drop it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Please, don't get started on the origins of words. I'm not even 30 and a ton of words have changed meaning. Words change meaning. It's a fact. Etymology proves nothing except when the first documented use a word is, what it meant back then, and how it's changed over time.
And, if you've had all this background with translations and such, you would be fully and very aware than many word in the Bible, as they were used when the KJV was written, is not at all how we use them today.

 

[sojourner]

I think it matters because...it is not who people ARE or who God intended them to be.

Prove that statement. Prove that it's not "who people are," and prove that it's not "who God intended them to be." That was the gauntlet of my post. Prove. It. Not "I think."

I have known several friends over the years who claim to be homosexuals, yet, I don't believe that is who they are.

I have known several friends, have several family members, and have counseled professionally with several people over the years who claim to be homosexual. Without exception, they have all had the experience that that is who they are, and when a few tried to change, they became suicidal, and were not happy and well-adjusted until they came to grips with the reality of their situation, and came to their own conclusions about what God "wanted for them."

Instead, I think who they are was stolen from them and they are hurting, confused , and believe a lie.

Once again: Prove it. One bible verse. Just one that explains in detail exactly why homosexuality is "sinful" and an "abomination." That's all I ask. I can say that with confidence, because It ain't in there. If it ain't in there, it's opinion, not fact. Just because it's "in the bible," doesn't mean it's factual. And until it is factual, we have no business foisting judgment upon those who identify as such. None. Period.