Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[Ben Dhyan]

Being an atheist does not mean one cannot be spiritual. Spirituality is a big term that can and does include people of faith and of no faith. I don';t agree that the goal of transcendence is foolishness, I just don't dismiss things that Luis has to say simply because he is an atheist. On this forum, its like someone says they are an atheist and that means they are not to be approached. Being an atheist is just one small aspect of who someone is. Just as being an Christian or Hindu or whatever else. I try to embrace the entire person for who they are and get to know them because, honestly, they might be the one person to teach me the most important lesson in my life.

Luis is living proof of your error in believing that.."Being an atheist does not mean one cannot be spiritual."....for Luis is implying it is foolish to have spiritual transcendence as a goal ....and that is the consistent position that Luis always takes...as do all atheists...There is some serious cognitive dissonance there between your belief in the spirituality of Luis and his repudiation of spirituality as foolishness...yes?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Yes actually, I am. Not just them, btw, but others of all faiths and of none. And you might think you are dualistic but I am of the opinion that I am not. Its back to that Yin Yang concept. Dualism is something that plagues the Abrahamic faiths which I am not a part of.

Jo...if you understood the religious teachings....it is the non-dualism that is the goal....God is one...Tao is one...Brahman is one.... all religions explain that the transcending of material dualism is the goal...the transcending of the temptation to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil of the Abrahamic traditions...the transcending of the never ending dance of the forces of ying and yang of the Taoist tradition...the transcending of never ending forces of ida and pingala of the Hindu tradition... Dualism plagues the minds of all unenlightened souls....it has nothing to do with the teaching itself that points the way to liberation from the limitations of dualism....

 

[Ben Dhyan]

My word, have you never read some of the great philosophers??? For example, one of the worlds most famous atheists...Nietzsche..said that if you look long into the abyss, the abyss looks back into you. That is one of the most profound spiritual truths I have ever read. The rest of your remarks are simply you attacking me out of fear. You already know I am a student of all faiths. All sacred texts have great meaning to me. I do hope you find peace. Namaste.

My words arise from peace Jo...but the peace from which the words arise does not imply timidity.... "superior wisdom does not know wisdom, inferior wisdom practices wisdom".....Ancient Chinese axiom...

 

[JoStories]

Luis is living proof of your error in believing that.."Being an atheist does not mean one cannot be spiritual."....for Luis is implying it is foolish to have spiritual transcendence as a goal ....and that is the consistent position that Luis always takes...as do all atheists...There is some serious cognitive dissonance there between your belief in the spirituality of Luis and his repudiation of spirituality as foolishness...yes?

No. All peoples can be spiritual. That does not mean that they have to be religious. There is a vast difference between the two. Being spiritual can mean enjoying nature. being spiritual is not a concept that is specific to religion. Luis is a vital and kind person who simply, for reasons of his own, does not believe in God. So what? Does that diminish him as a person? Of course not. If it does in your eyes, I don;t know what to say.

 

[Muffled]

You haven't proven any point by making absurd declarations in response to song lyrics posted in jest. If you want to try to make some point then why not address the other posts referring to the flaw being in those who call love perversion and show bigotry towards it. Truth is, one's mind must be twisted in the first place, dirty, perverted, in order to find sexual perversion in a loving relationship merely by judging what kind of sex that couple is having. That is evidence of a mind in the gutter with sexual hang-ups and issues. The issue is with the one who actually has problems with a relationship they aren't even a part of, not with those within the relationship.

I believe I made my point but will be happy to prove it if you prefer.

I believe people use the word "absurd" when they can't prove what they say.

I believe there is no flaw. Not all love is perversion but some forms are. To say I call all love perversion is an incorrect statement.

I believe this is a case of calling evil good and good evil. I happen to believe my beliefs are not only Biblical but also logical.

 

[Muffled]

Perversion by whose definition? You will forgive me if the definition you are gleaning is from your Bible as that book, while having some meaning, is certainly not one that I hold as the best out there. What if you were to learn that it was your views on this that are perverted?

I believe Webster's will do.

I don't believe it is possible to find a book that is better than God's word.

I believe the "what if" is totally illogical like saying what if the moon is made of green cheese. All the evidence is to the contrary and is not likely to be reversed.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

.. Dualism plagues the minds of all unenlightened souls...

As does homophobic bigotry.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Luis is living proof of your error in believing that.."Being an atheist does not mean one cannot be spiritual."....for Luis is implying it is foolish to have spiritual transcendence as a goal ....and that is the consistent position that Luis always takes...as do all atheists...There is some serious cognitive dissonance there between your belief in the spirituality of Luis and his repudiation of spirituality as foolishness...yes?

Actually, you can very much indeed be an atheist and be spiritual.
http://www.amazon.com/Waking-Up-Spirituality-Without-Religion/dp/1451636024

For the millions of Americans who want spirituality without religion, Sam Harris’s latest New York Times bestseller is a guide to meditation as a rational practice informed by neuroscience and psychology.

From Sam Harris, neuroscientist and author of numerous New York Times bestselling books, Waking Up is for the twenty percent of Americans who follow no religion but who suspect that important truths can be found in the experiences of such figures as Jesus, the Buddha, Lao Tzu, Rumi, and the other saints and sages of history. Throughout this book, Harris argues that there is more to understanding reality than science and secular culture generally allow, and that how we pay attention to the present moment largely determines the quality of our lives.

Waking Up is part memoir and part exploration of the scientific underpinnings of spirituality. No other book marries contemplative wisdom and modern science in this way, and no author other than Sam Harris—a scientist, philosopher, and famous skeptic—could write it.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

No. All peoples can be spiritual. That does not mean that they have to be religious. There is a vast difference between the two. Being spiritual can mean enjoying nature. being spiritual is not a concept that is specific to religion. Luis is a vital and kind person who simply, for reasons of his own, does not believe in God. So what? Does that diminish him as a person? Of course not. If it does in your eyes, I don;t know what to say.

Everyone has a spiritual basis to their existence.....animals included....but atheists who deny this fact ....and who feel their proper purpose in life is to continuously attack those who do believe, are are not considered to be spiritual. That is all, it is not about whether a person is enjoying life and nature or not.. A spiritual atheist is an oxymoron!!!

 

[Ben Dhyan]

As does homophobic bigotry.

As does false judgement...and pro-homosexual bigotry...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Actually, you can very much indeed be an atheist and be spiritual.
http://www.amazon.com/Waking-Up-Spirituality-Without-Religion/dp/1451636024

But the author is an atheist who claims spirituality for himself....claiming it so don't make it so... As I said to Jo...a spiritual atheist is an oxymoron.... There are though of course malevolent entities in the spiritual spheres who oppose the progress of sincere spiritual aspirants....and deceive the ignorant....but for these to call themselves spiritual in the sense of true religious purpose is a lie..

 

[Draka]

I believe I made my point but will be happy to prove it if you prefer.

I saw no point made. I saw no point at all. Hard to prove a point that does not exist.

I believe people use the word "absurd" when they can't prove what they say.

And I believe in calling thing which are absurd absurd. Do I need to prove they are absurd? No. They do that for themselves.

I believe there is no flaw. Not all love is perversion but some forms are. To say I call all love perversion is an incorrect statement.

I didn't say you call all love a perversion, but you do call love within the confines of a loving monogamous consensual adult relationship a perversion if the individuals within the relationship just happen to be of the same gender.

I believe this is a case of calling evil good and good evil. I happen to believe my beliefs are not only Biblical but also logical.

There is nothing logical about focusing on the sex another couple has. Especially if that couple consists of two consenting adults. What anyone does in the bedroom with another consenting adult is not anyone else's business. To believe it is, to judge others upon perceived sexual relations, is not logical at all, but sick, perverted, and disgusting. It shows the mind of someone who has extreme sexual issues and repression. Honestly, it comes across as a mental illness.

 

[dgirl1986]

Luis is living proof of your error in believing that.."Being an atheist does not mean one cannot be spiritual."....for Luis is implying it is foolish to have spiritual transcendence as a goal ....and that is the consistent position that Luis always takes...as do all atheists...There is some serious cognitive dissonance there between your belief in the spirituality of Luis and his repudiation of spirituality as foolishness...yes?

Tell that to the pagan atheists. Atheism does not equal skepticism. You can have disbelief in gods and believe in other spiritual stuff at the same time.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Tell that to the pagan atheists. Atheism does not equal skepticism. You can have disbelief in gods and believe in other spiritual stuff at the same time.

Yes... of course there is Satanism, Voodooism, worshiping of nature spirits, etc...but I an pretty sure Jo was using the concept of spiritual in the sense of spiritual ascent.....not descent...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

a spiritual atheist is an oxymoron...

You're saying that, but I just posted a book by someone who is an atheist, who has very good and high credentials, yet you try to dismiss this as not sincere and deceptive? Did you even bother to read the book description to know what the book is about and what topics it covers?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You're saying that, but I just posted a book by someone who is an atheist, who has very good and high credentials, yet you try to dismiss this as not sincere and deceptive? Did you even bother to read the book description to know what the book is about and what topics it covers?

No, I am not saying he or any atheist for that matter is not sincere....but I do not recognize the credentials of any atheist who claims spirituality in the sense of ascent from the spheres of temporary forms of matter to the spheres of immortal spirit.. Their so called spirituality is involutional in nature rather than evolutional, and leads to a descent into denser material spheres where selfishness and evil reigns... God is an omnipresent one, the realization of that oneness within oneself is essential to the transcendence of the illusion of duality...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Their so called spirituality is involutional in nature rather than evolutional, and leads to a descent into denser material spheres where selfishness and evil reigns...

Have any proof of that?

God is an omnipresent one, the realization of that oneness within oneself is essential to the transcendence of the illusion of duality...

The thing is, not everyone desires this "oneness" with god.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Have any proof of that?

The thing is, not everyone desires this "oneness" with god.

The only proof of things outside of material objectivity, is subjective.. There is enough ancient religious scripture about that all agree there there are dark spiritual forces...occult forces...and there are spiritual forces of light.... I have experienced both subjectively and know first hand which direction my destiny lies... All who do not desire oneness with God will get their wish and experience the eternal conflict between the good and evil forces for as long as it takes for them to wish for a release from the resultant suffering....and seek for the transcendence of duality....

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The only proof of things outside of material objectivity, is subjective..

Then I can assume you can't prove that atheism leads to selfishness and evilness?

All who do not desire oneness with God will get their wish and experience the eternal conflict between the good and evil forces for as long as it takes for them to wish for a release from the resultant suffering....and seek for the transcendence of duality....

Good and evil, joy and sorrow, happiness and pain, these things make life interesting, meaningful, fun - although on some days I may suffer (I have a bad knee, clinical depression, and some other things), it is because I suffer from a day of pain that I can deeply appreciate a day without pain. Because of all the weird, odd, and fascinating things people do, it is great to be alive. If I could stay here, to embrace life, the good and the bad, to learn, to love, to laugh, to struggle, to hate, to cry...why would I ever want to leave? Why not embrace all that life has to offer, rather than shunning half of it?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Then I can assume you can't prove that atheism leads to selfishness and evilness?

Good and evil, joy and sorrow, happiness and pain, these things make life interesting, meaningful, fun - although on some days I may suffer (I have a bad knee, clinical depression, and some other things), it is because I suffer from a day of pain that I can deeply appreciate a day without pain. Because of all the weird, odd, and fascinating things people do, it is great to be alive. If I could stay here, to embrace life, the good and the bad, to learn, to love, to laugh, to struggle, to hate, to cry...why would I ever want to leave? Why not embrace all that life has to offer, rather than shunning half of it?

Well I have my own subjective proof....when I had dropped away from the path earlier on in my life...I definitely become more selfish and less moral and as a result...my life was beset with serious difficulties..

Life is for a short time...what we do with it determines out future beyond death of the body... Each soul will reap the karma of our life's actions...good or bad...into the next life...reincarnation and karma are a part of one continuous journey....until one's last life in which the errors of understanding have been corrected and the requirement to reincarnate is no more... This life will be the last life for some, but certainly not for those who seek carnal enjoyment as a way of life...