Is belief in ghosts compatible with the Christian faith, or other religions?

[Draka]

The number of Christians that have these "right field " beliefs is quite small, compared to the 1 billion+ Catholics alone. I still hold that 99 percent of Christians believe you go to heaven or hell when you die, and they don't believe those are located on earth.
Christians can believe anything they want, but the vast, vast majority recite the apostle's creed every week, and don't believe they'll be haunting a house when they die.
I personally never met anyone that thought they would be a ghost on earth when they died, and I met people from quite a few different denominations.

Wow, I come from a huge Catholic family and you obviously never met any of them I can gaurantee. Not only was there acceptance of the belief in ghosts...but many family members who claimed to see and talk with them. These were Catholic and other Christian people.

As for the "vast majority" of Christians reciting the apostles creed every week...the vast majority of Christians don't even go to church. I highly doubt that vast majority is reciting any creed weekly. In fact, I've never met one Christian that did. I guess I've only met the minority throughout my entire life huh?

Logician you claim to know an awful lot about Christians and Christianity, but whenever you post you seem to show how little you actually know and more what you simply assume.

 

[Draka]

Oh great.
Now you have gone and done it.

Don't you know that logic is not supposed to be used in this thread?

Aw shucks...my bad.:foot:

 

[logician]

1.Wow, I come from a huge Catholic family and you obviously never met any of them I can gaurantee. Not only was there acceptance of the belief in ghosts...but many family members who claimed to see and talk with them. These were Catholic and other Christian people.

2.As for the "vast majority" of Christians reciting the apostles creed every week...the vast majority of Christians don't even go to church. I highly doubt that vast majority is reciting any creed weekly. In fact, I've never met one Christian that did. I guess I've only met the minority throughout my entire life huh?

3,Logician you claim to know an awful lot about Christians and Christianity, but whenever you post you seem to show how little you actually know and more what you simply assume.

!. So you're saying they believed THEY could be come a ghost haunting a house when they died? Never heard ANYONE theist or atheist say that.

2. You obviously never went to church much. Most denominations recite the creed weekly, or at least quite often. As far as for "Christians" not attending church, where do you draw the line for being a Christian vs not being one? Church attendance doensn't matter?

3. I assume nothing, I'm going by the people I met when a Chrisitian. I majored in math specializing in probability and statistics. If believing that you yourself could become a ghost haunting a house was a common belief in Chrisitianity, it is virtually certain I would have heard someone espouse such a belief, however, I never heard anyone claim such.

 

[Draka]

Why are you not commenting on the previous post of mine? Because it proves you wrong?

And why not be a ghost? My cousin saw my grandmother after her death.

You do not need to go to church to be a Christian. Like I said, most Christians don't even go to church. Sitting in a church is not a requirement of belief.

You assume a lot actually. I find that the most jaded people against Christianity are the ones who once were, but were most likely in an extreme or fundie setting of Christianity, get out of it and go all uber atheist and anti-Christian thinking they know everything about Christianity and Christians when they really don't. You have been no exception.

Also, you can try to play on your "statistics" background to try to make your argument sound more valid...but it doesn't make it any less wrong.

 

[Draka]

!. So you're saying they believed THEY could be come a ghost haunting a house when they died? Never heard ANYONE theist or atheist say that.

Oh, and just so you can never say that stupid nonsense again:

I'm a theist. I believe it is quite possible for me to remain here or return here in ghost form. It all depends on how my spirit transitions at death.

 

[logician]

Why are you not commenting on the previous post of mine? Because it proves you wrong?

And why not be a ghost? My cousin saw my grandmother after her death.

You do not need to go to church to be a Christian. Like I said, most Christians don't even go to church. Sitting in a church is not a requirement of belief.

You assume a lot actually. I find that the most jaded people against Christianity are the ones who once were, but were most likely in an extreme or fundie setting of Christianity, get out of it and go all uber atheist and anti-Christian thinking they know everything about Christianity and Christians when they really don't. You have been no exception.

Also, you can try to play on your "statistics" background to try to make your argument sound more valid...but it doesn't make it any less wrong.

Again, you miss my point, for the vast number of Christians, belief that "they" could become a ghost in a haunted house is incompatible with their beliefs. Sure, there are Christians that believe in ghosts, but the vast majority don't believe THEY will become one. And membership in a church or belief in "mainstream" Chrisitianity gives tacit support for the apostle's creed, whether you attend or not.

Also, what about these bible verses:

Exodus 22:18: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
Deuteronomy 18:10-11 There shall not be found among you anyone ....that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

Galatians 5:19-20a list of "acts of the sinful nature", or "works of the flesh" and specify the following practices:
"impure thoughts, eagerness for lustful pleasure, idolatry, spiritism (that is, encouraging the activity of demons),..."

It really doesn't sound like the bible is too HOT on witchcraft, divination of spirits, ghosts, and the like.:sleep:

 

[Draka]

Again, you miss my point, for the vast number of Christians, belief that "they" could become a ghost in a haunted house is incompatible with their beliefs. Sure, there are Christians that believe in ghosts, but the vast majority don't believe THEY will become one. And membership in a church or belief in "mainstream" Chrisitianity gives tacit support for the apostle's creed, whether you attend or not.

Also, what about these bible verses:

Exodus 22:18: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
Deuteronomy 18:10-11 There shall not be found among you anyone ....that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

Galatians 5:19-20a list of "acts of the sinful nature", or "works of the flesh" and specify the following practices:
"impure thoughts, eagerness for lustful pleasure, idolatry, spiritism (that is, encouraging the activity of demons),..."

It really doesn't sound like the bible is too HOT on witchcraft, divination of spirits, ghosts, and the like.:sleep:

Hello, just because they don't approve of witchcraft doesn't seem to mean that they don't believe it is real and that those things are possible in the first place. They wouldn't condemn something they didn't believe was possible silly. Obviously they believe it is possible for spirits to return from the afterlife or they wouldn't have such a fit about it. Think for a moment here. Your very argument proves you wrong about belief in ghosts being compatible with Christianity.

And let me try this one more time with you because you obviously don't want to hear it. MOST Christians don't even go to church. The chances they are reciting the Apostles Creed at home every week like clockwork are EXTREMELY slim. Therefore, to say that the vast majority of Christians recite the creed every week is a gross erroneous assumption. You simply don't know what the "majority " of Christians believe or don't believe because you are pulling from specific acts of certain churches. That fails.

And again...did you want to address my first post or just continue to ignore how you are wrong?

 

[logician]

Hello, just because they don't approve of witchcraft doesn't seem to mean that they don't believe it is real and that those things are possible in the first place. They wouldn't condemn something they didn't believe was possible silly. Obviously they believe it is possible for spirits to return from the afterlife or they wouldn't have such a fit about it. Think for a moment here. Your very argument proves you wrong about belief in ghosts being compatible with Christianity.

And let me try this one more time with you because you obviously don't want to hear it. MOST Christians don't even go to church. The chances they are reciting the Apostles Creed at home every week like clockwork are EXREMELY slim. Therefore, to say that the vast majority of Christians recite the creed every week is a gross erroneous assumption. You simply don't know what the "majority " of Christians believe or don't believe because you are pulling from specific acts of certain churches. That fails.

And again...did you want to address my first post or just continue to ignore how you are wrong?

This post simply doesn't make sense. In no way does the bible saying practicing witchcraft or divination of spirits is evil IMPLY that ghosts are real phenomenon. It just implies that doing these acitivities is harmful and/or sinful. Also, I question how many people that don't go to church are "Christians" on a technical level. Many of these people may have lost their faith, or are agnostic, which is why they left the church to begin with.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

They certainly can, but it is not compatible with Christianity.

... not compatable with "logician's misunderstanding" of Christianity...

 

[Draka]

This post simply doesn't make sense. In no way does the bible saying practicing witchcraft or divination of spirits is evil IMPLY that ghosts are real phenomenon. It just implies that doing these acitivities is harmful and/or sinful. Also, I question how many people that don't go to church are "Christians" on a technical level. Many of these people may have lost their faith, or are agnostic, which is why they left the church to begin with.

Again, did you bother to read my first post? It was believed that witches could call up spirits of the dead. In the BIBLE it tells of the witch/medium of Endor who called up the ghost of Samuel at the King's request. Now. Why would it tell of calling up a ghost if it wasn't believed possible??? Why are you choosing to ignore this over and over? Because it proves you wrong and you just can't stand for that?

Also, just because someone stops going to church doesn't necessarily mean they stopped believing. There are many reasons a person may not go to church. There are many people who believe that a church is not required for their god to hear them or to pray and honor their god. Not going to a church does not make them any less Christian. It is what they hold in their hearts and minds that is important to belief...not sitting in a pew.

 

[logician]

1. Again, did you bother to read my first post? It was believed that witches could call up spirits of the dead. In the BIBLE it tells of the witch/medium of Endor who called up the ghost of Samuel at the King's request. Now. Why would it tell of calling up a ghost if it wasn't believed possible??? Why are you choosing to ignore this over and over? Because it proves you wrong and you just can't stand for that?

2.Also, just because someone stops going to church doesn't necessarily mean they stopped believing. There are many reasons a person may not go to church. There are many people who believe that a church is not required for their god to hear them or to pray and honor their god. Not going to a church does not make them any less Christian. It is what they hold in their hearts and minds that is important to belief...not sitting in a pew.

1. I choose to ignore it because it is an in the OT, certainly not a Christian belief.

2. What kind of statistics do you have that state the vast majority of Christians DON'T go to church?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

1. I choose to ignore it because it is an in the OT, certainly not a Christian belief.

2. What kind of statistics do you have that state the vast majority of Christians DON'T go to church?

We're used to that, logician. :biglaugh:

 

[logician]

Certain people have tried to twist this thread around to an argument that I haven't been making, that Christian's don't believe in ghosts. Of course a number of Christians believe in ghosts.

However, their beliefs don't mean belief in ghosts is compatible with Christian belief, belief in ghosts is a separate tradition that has come along with Christianity. It's not just me that believes the 2 are incompatible, a lot of Christians believe they are.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

However, their beliefs don't mean belief in ghosts is compatible with Christian belief, belief in ghosts is a separate tradition that has come along with Christianity. It's not just me that believes the 2 are incompatible, a lot of Christians believe they are.

This kind of thinking is precisely where you get into trouble.

Who decides what "Christian belief" is? It seems like you're advocating a single "Christian belief" [logician's definition of Christianity] when there are many Christian traditions.

The farther back you go in Christianity, the more likely people believed in ghosts and demons (eg, the mentioning of demons and ghosts in the NT), and various other traditions concerning these things have been adopted by Christians and Christian leaders ever since (the Catholic Church still has exorcists, if the Roman Church is what you call "Christian").

 

[Draka]

1. I choose to ignore it because it is an in the OT, certainly not a Christian belief.

And nothing in the OT is relevant at all huh? Spirits and ghosts were an accepted belief in the OT and suddenly, along comes Jesus and there are no such things as ghosts anymore huh?

Ok, then what about Jesus talking with Elias and Moses? They were spirits. Not alive. What about Jesus "appearing" to people after his death and resurrection? "Oh, but that's Jesus...that's different" :sarcastic

It just seems you choose to ignore anything that you don't want to recognize because you can be proven wrong by it. It's kind of like doing this: :ignore:

2. What kind of statistics do you have that state the vast majority of Christians DON'T go to church?

Ok, I'll play, how about this?

Gallup International indicates that 41%[66] of American citizens report they regularly attend religious services, compared to 15% of French citizens, 10% of UK citizens,[67] and 7.5% of Australian citizens.[68]

However, these numbers are open to dispute. ReligiousTolerance.org states:
"Church attendance data in the U.S. has been checked against actual values using two different techniques. The true figures show that only about 21% of Americans and 10% of Canadians actually go to church one or more times a week. Many Americans and Canadians tell pollsters that they have gone to church even though they have not. Whether this happens in other countries, with different cultures, is difficult to predict."[66]

In, a 2006 online Harris Poll of 2,010 U.S. adults (18 and older) found that only 26% of those surveyed attended religious services "every week or more often", 9% went "once or twice a month", 21% went "a few times a year", 3% went "once a year", 22% went "less than once a year", and 18% never attend religious services. An identical survey by Harris in 2003 found that only 26% of those surveyed attended religious services "every week or more often", 11% went "once or twice a month" 19% went "a few times a year", 4% went "once a year", 16% went "less than once a year", and 25% never attend religious services.

Now, being that 76% of Americans claim to be Christian, and "the vast majority" of Christians go to church, then shouldn't those numbers be much higher? Those numbers take into account all religions. It says "religious services". That applies not only to churches, but temples and mosques and everything else. If you are so right...shouldn't those attendance numbers be a lot higher than they are? Hmm...but they're not are they? They correspond to what I've been saying.

logician...you are failing miserably here.

 

[McBell]

This kind of thinking is precisely where you get into trouble.

Who decides what "Christian belief" is? It seems like you're advocating a single "Christian belief" [logician's definition of Christianity] when there are many Christian traditions.

*whistles innocently*:

Do you get the same impression as I?
That he is trying to tell Christians what they are and are not supposed to believe?

I stand by the statement:

You are trying to tell Christians what they are and are not supposed to believe.​

Who?
Your 99% of all Christians?
I have no idea what they all think.

Unlike you, I do not try to tell others what they are and are not to believe.
I mean, actually finding out what they believe might seriously hurt your argument.
So I completely understand why you would not bother with actually finding out.
I mean, what kind of thread would that be, using actual facts and the truth.....

logician is also ignoring several posts...
Like posts #80 and #81.

Seems to me that he is really hurting his own argument when he avoids points that seriously hurt it.

 

[Draka]

logician is also ignoring several posts...
Like posts #80 and #81.

Seems to me that he is really hurting his own argument when he avoids points that seriously hurt it.

logician has quite the habit of doing this :ignore: when he gets pwned. Yes...I said pwned.

 

[logician]

This kind of thinking is precisely where you get into trouble.

Who decides what "Christian belief" is? It seems like you're advocating a single "Christian belief" [logician's definition of Christianity] when there are many Christian traditions.

The farther back you go in Christianity, the more likely people believed in ghosts and demons (eg, the mentioning of demons and ghosts in the NT), and various other traditions concerning these things have been adopted by Christians and Christian leaders ever since (the Catholic Church still has exorcists, if the Roman Church is what you call "Christian").

"the Catholic Church still has exorcists"

Uh, exorcists exorcise supposed demons, not ghosts, I specifically said this thread was NOT about demons or angels. Show me where the Vatican believes that ghosts haunt houses.

"Who decides what "Christian belief" is? "

I'll give you that, evidently, according to you all, you can believe in the tooth fairy, celestial teapots, unicorns, or anything and still be a Christian.

 

[Draka]

"the Catholic Church still has exorcists"

Uh, exorcists exorcise supposed demons, not ghosts, I specifically said this thread was NOT about demons or angels. Show me where the Vatican believes that ghosts haunt houses.

"Who decides what "Christian belief" is? "

I'll give you that, evidently, according to you all, you can believe in the tooth fairy, celestial teapots, unicorns, or anything and still be a Christian.

Nice job at being ridiculous. The fact of the matter is, since there are accounts of spirits being seen in both the old and new testaments, then it is quite reasonable to say that belief in spirits/ghosts is compatible with Christianity. Whether some Christians do or do not believe in ghosts is actually beside the point. The belief is allowable as per actual accounts in the bible and thus compatible. You are wrong. Flat out wrong.

 

[no-body]

I've noticed a lot of Christians especially in the south are really holding new age ideas, of course they would never admit this. See the left behind series... I think it has a lot to do with frumpy housewives being Christian.