Sleeppy
Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Should or shouldn't isn't what I was thinking about. But, why shouldn't we be helplessly tied to fate?
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Is God Helpless under the Realm of Free Will????
- Thread starter Bird123
- Start date
Should or shouldn't isn't what I was thinking about. But, why shouldn't we be helplessly tied to fate?
Bird123
Well-Known Member
Hmmm .. if we don't like reality, then "hey presto", let's change it, and pretend that although there is suffering in this life (which God allows), He won't allow it in the next..
Notwithstanding that Jesus, peace be with him, in the Christian Bible speaks of hell .. no, we don't like it .. we'll ignore those parts of the Bible, or pretend that it means something else
Should one really accept books written by Mankind as God's word? I demand reality over stories.
There is suffering in this world, however it has purpose. An eternal Hell would serve no purpose other than revenge and hate. Surely, God can not be that petty.
Bird123
Well-Known Member
Vast intelligence has all the knowledge of choices. Parents can force children to their will with an iron fist, however don't Smart parents Out Think their Kids??, Maybe work around them?
Granted it is all under God's determination, however we do have free choice within that determination. WE are free to screw up all we like until we acquire enough intelligence to realize the system and path God has set is the Intelligent one. WE are free to explore and decide for ourselves. That is of course if we choose to be free.
Bird123
Well-Known Member
It's not hate that gets rid of these things. It's Intelligence.
Bird123
Well-Known Member
Doesn't Exist??? Is this observation based on Religion or have you made an extensive search??
Bird123
Well-Known Member
Having an open mind, I won't discount that possibility. On the other hand I have a bad connection for my view is limited by this box, call a human body, that I currently live in.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Both of those, and of course he doesn't exist, I would be too embarrassed to even argue about it.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Oh yes .. of course .. the Qur'an is barbaric and doesn't confirm the Bible. That's what you think, isn't it?
Yes, gehenna is a place. It was used to describe hell .. ie. a burning pit!
Hmmm...Where is that coming from?
I've never read the Qu'ran, so I'll just have to take your word for it.
At any rate, let's stay on topic, shall we?
Gehenna was the burning pit.
As you can see, it's no longer burning, making it a highly
inaccurate metaphor for an 'endless' fiery 'hell' somewhere.
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Thanda
Well-Known Member
Hate is an emotion - it motivates. The hate for sin motivates God to use his intelligence to get rid of it.
Sleeppy
Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
I'm not referring simply to some 'vast intelligence' making educated guesses, I'm referring to the source of all knowledge.
Parents each give half of their chromosomes to their child. The child manifests out of that chromosomal marriage. If you understand this it becomes a lot easier to understand the idea: "Honor your father and your mother." It is impossible for a child to honor his/her father and mother, without the child first being honored. The genetic code is the foundation of that honor. The manifestation of the parents' genetic code, in relation to current stimuli, (i.e. current status, beliefs, etc.) must then mesh with that of the latent genetic code which is the inexperienced, largely unstimulated child. The key to parenting isn't the introduction of will to the child, but the understanding and cultivation of those wills which have already manifested from chromosomal marriage into the birth of the child.
There is no free anything. God determines all things, and is not subverted by His creation in the way that free will demands. We are here to observe and evolve, according to God's will, not our own.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
I highly recommend that you do read it .. it confirms the truth of the Bible and helps to clarify a few issues..Hmmm...Where is that coming from?
I've never read the Qu'ran, so I'll just have to take your word for it.
Bird123
Well-Known Member
One should never be embarrassed to speak their view. Isn't interaction more important than who is right or wrong?
I know God exists through the evidence and my experiences. I don't see religion as having a clue.
So if God does not exist then are you saying mankind is the highest intelligence in the universe? Hmmm? How are you going to look if you answer that question?
Bird123
Well-Known Member
If God created everything, then God created sin. Why do you think God hates His own creation? Why would God want to get rid of His creation?
I think God counts on sin. Think about it. It is a key tool in education.
Bird123
Well-Known Member
I'll go along with all that except for two things. 1. Free will does not demand one to subvert only that the option is there. Perhaps one is currently blind to all the possible dimensions of our choices. Which leads me to 2. We could all be choosing to evolve this way, but our view is currently limited by the parameters of this physical universe. Don't the limitations of the physical body restrict our view and memory? When freed, the picture might look much different.
Won't you be surprised to discover your life was your idea all along?
psychoslice
Veteran Member
My experience of what is called God, is that all is One, we included, you cannot separate this Oneness, for then you only reduce it to a mere concept, or belief, Oneness is not a concept or a belief. God is no a personified being who sits up in the sky waving his magic wand, this is another concept, anther belief, the whole Cosmos is One, the whole Cosmos is one intelligence, we as humans are a part of that intelligence, so for me personally I don't need to believe in something higher or lower, again everything is One.
Sleeppy
Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
And when does the option manifest itself? Free will demands that subversion manifest. But that's not the only problem: the free will idea is a polytheistic one, in that the one who wills creates something completely apart from God. The one who wills becomes the original, ex nihilo source of will. Doesn't work, unless you're a polytheist, ignoring all visible, scientific implications that reality is deterministic.
First Baseman
Retired athlete
My God is rather the opposite of helpless. Any god who is helpless under any circumstance isn't very much of a god.
Thanda
Well-Known Member
A big IF. Happily I'm not one of those who believes God created everything.
I would much prefer reading Rumi's material. But that's
because when it comes to sacred writings, I'm moved more
by religion's mystical side than I am by its magisterial side.
The bible no longer holds center stage in my spiritual walk. I
mean, it does contain some gems of wisdom, but so does just
about any sacred text, I would think. I've moved off of Abrahamic
influences almost entirely at this point.
Nowadays, it's the Bhagavad Gita which has impacted me; it
depicts the Lord as having more of an "It is what it is" attitude
and less of an "I'm gonna git you if you mess up!" attitude.
The bible just has so much "Angry God in the Sky" going on,
a concept which has gotten harder for me to accept as my
realization of His omnipotence, omniscience, and love has
increased. Any sacred text which would reinforce the angry-
god idea would be a huge step backward for me, and I like
moving forward.
This wouldn't surprise me too much. The idea that our
involvement in this world is voluntary, and even planned
out prior to birth (not necessarily down to the last detail),
makes sense to me.
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