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Is God Helpless under the Realm of Free Will????

Sleeppy

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
The "free will" idea is the most basic form of polytheism there is. You begin by calling yourself a god among others; a being of free reign of thought and action. You begin by calling yourself a creator; the source and director of will.

It's a very purposely persistent illusion. God is not subverted.
 
atanu

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Sleeppy said:
The "free will" idea is the most basic form of polytheism there is. You begin by calling yourself a god among others; a being of free reign of thought and action. You begin by calling yourself a creator; the source and director of will.

It's a very purposely persistent illusion. God is not subverted.
Click to expand...

It can be illusion. Or it may not be.
 
Bird123

Bird123

Well-Known Member
muhammad_isa said:
Presumably, for the same reason that you would want to pull people from hell
..some people just end up morally bankrupt .. is that God's fault?
Click to expand...

There lives another issue. You value Blame. I do not. Has Religion taught you to value Blame? I do not care about fault. I care only about Results.

I want to pull people from Hell simply for Justice sake. Hell represents no Justice. Now the drug addict will learn from their bad choices in time. It might take more than one lifetime, however people do learn.

As for the morally bankrupt, you seem to value much like mankind values. Mankind discards or destroys that which is not easily fixed. Would not the Higher Level be to Fix the problem no matter how long it takes? Besides, doesn't God have eternity to work with? People claim God to be so smart. Is God not capable of a better solution than Hell?

Let's never ever give up on our children no matter how messed up they become. There are ways and answers.

Everyone will buy the cookware freely.
 
Bird123

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Muffled said:
I believe I would not have been convinced to buy cookware, So the answer is that some people will avoid Hell simply because of the hype but not everyone.

I don't believe God views Hell the same way people do. It is monstrous what people do to one another in my opinion and it seems fair to punish them accordingly. What if God is working on the premise that you get what you give. If you give death then you get it. If you torment a person, you get tormented. This seems fair to me.
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Does punishment really solve anything? Isn't punishment just another form of hate or just an attempt to Control the actions of another? Wouldn't a Being as Intelligent as God exist at a higher level than Hate or attempting to control the actions of others through pain?

Instead of punishment, could not God Educate those children? If God simply returns all our actions back to us, wouldn't that teach us what our actions really mean? Would not this simple act also teach everyone to Love Unconditionally? After all, isn't Unconditional Love what everyone wants to return?

You are right. Mankind has made some very bad choices. The total lesson will take many many lifetimes. There is so much God can teach us. How could it ever be done in one?

People speak of Heaven. Isn't it going to take many many lifetimes before one can reach the higher level of Unconditional Love even to be able to exist around others without any fighting at all?

Clearly, Religion's answers fall short of the Real Picture.
 
Bird123

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Sleeppy said:
The "free will" idea is the most basic form of polytheism there is. You begin by calling yourself a god among others; a being of free reign of thought and action. You begin by calling yourself a creator; the source and director of will.

It's a very purposely persistent illusion. God is not subverted.
Click to expand...

God is not subverted??? I don't understand. I thought you realized. WE ALL bought the Cookware!!!
 
muhammad_isa

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
Bird123 said:
...
Is God not capable of a better solution than Hell?
...
Click to expand...
Hmmm .. if we don't like reality, then "hey presto", let's change it, and pretend that although there is suffering in this life (which God allows), He won't allow it in the next..

Notwithstanding that Jesus, peace be with him, in the Christian Bible speaks of hell .. no, we don't like it .. we'll ignore those parts of the Bible, or pretend that it means something else :disappointed:
 
Astravalon

Astravalon

☯
muhammad_isa said:
Notwithstanding that Jesus, peace be with him, in the Christian Bible speaks of hell .. no, we don't like it .. we'll ignore those parts of the Bible, or pretend that it means something else :disappointed:
Click to expand...
Some would say pretending is what lead to the conclusion that
it definitively speaks of endless torment in 'hell'. Even among
Christians, this is highly debatable.

My Catholic bible doesn't mention the word 'hell' at all. True story. :)


-
 
Thanda

Thanda

Well-Known Member
Bird123 said:
My point comes down to this. There really are no excuses to Hate. Isn't to Hate a Sin?? I find something major wrong with a God wanting anyone to hate. Don't hate. Fix the problem instead.
Click to expand...

Well I believe you have to hate certain things otherwise you will not try to get rid of them. Mandela hated injustice and racism - so he tried to get rid of it. Some hate poverty and do what they can to rid the world of it. God hates sin and does what he can to get rid of it,
 
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