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Is God three beings in one being according to christians on RF?

firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Lain said:
It is third-hand because I have not the time to read Origen directly on this matter right now
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I meant about Valentius.

Lain said:
I love St. Irenaeus and value his work and quote him often for he is beautiful, but neither was I referring to his usage of the terms either,
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Right. But still, both of them used the word beings referring to the holy trinity.

Thats the whole point.

Cheers.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Lain said:
Concerning essence, the Persons are co-equal, they all have the same essence and neither is less than the other in this.
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And I am pleased to say that it is your use of the word and philosophical concept of "essence" is the key to understanding the Catholic approach to the Trinitarian concept. As you well know, the early Christian scriptures were written primarily in Koine Greek, thus the use of the concept of "essence", per both Aristotle and Plato, were used to reflect that concept.

I don't know how many times this has been explained, and yet we still get the same ol' same ol' charge of polytheism.
 
Starlight

Starlight

Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
metis said:
And I am pleased to say that it is your use of the word and philosophical concept of "essence" is the key to understanding the Catholic approach to the Trinitarian concept. As you well know, the early Christian scriptures were written primarily in Koine Greek, thus the use of the concept of "essence", per both Aristotle and Plato, were used to reflect that concept.

I don't know how many times this has been explained, and yet we still get the same ol' same ol' charge of polytheism.
Click to expand...

Conjoined triples is three persons but share one essence/substance

God in the trinity doctrine is like conjoined triples. Three persons who share one essence/substance.

You and your mother is two different essences/substances.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Meandflower said:
Athanasian creed

Whoever desires to be saved should above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and unbroken will doubtless perish eternally.

Now this is the catholic faith:

That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity,
neither blending their persons
nor dividing their essence.
For the person of the Father is a distinct person,
the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one,
their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.

What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has.
The Father is uncreated,
the Son is uncreated,
the Holy Spirit is uncreated.

The Father is immeasurable,
the Son is immeasurable,
the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.

The Father is eternal,
the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.

And yet there are not three eternal beings;
there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings;
there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.

Similarly, the Father is almighty,
the Son is almighty,
the Holy Spirit is almighty.
Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.

Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.

Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord,
so catholic religion forbids us
to say that there are three gods or lords.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone.
The Son was neither made nor created;
he was begotten from the Father alone.
The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten;
he proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers;
there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.

Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller;
in their entirety the three persons
are coeternal and coequal with each other.

So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity
and their unity in their trinity.

Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.

But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.

Now this is the true faith:

That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.

He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time;
and he is human from the essence of his mother,
born in time;
completely God, completely human,
with a rational soul and human flesh;
equal to the Father as regards divinity,
less than the Father as regards humanity.

Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however,
not by his divinity being turned into flesh,
but by God's taking humanity to himself.
He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence,
but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh,
so too the one Christ is both God and human.

He suffered for our salvation;
he descended to hell;
he arose from the dead;
he ascended to heaven;
he is seated at the Father's right hand;
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
At his coming all people will arise bodily
and give an accounting of their own deeds.
Those who have done good will enter eternal life,
and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.

This is the catholic faith.

So the catholic faith do believe God is three persons/beings in one being
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Again, see above.
 
Shadow11

Shadow11

Member
Isn't that the LDS belief - Jesus has a body , God the father has a body , the holy spirit doesn't but is separate being from God the father - its their God head. There are all sorts of Gods Satan is a God - he's Jesus brother Jesus mother is a God although unnamed.Remember they are right and all other Christians are wrong but they say you will get a chance to accept their Gospel at death and also become a LDS.
 
L

Lain

Well-Known Member
Meandflower said:
Yes it is refering to essence/substance.

Conjoined triples is three persons but share one essence/substance

God in the trinity doctrine is like conjoined triples. Three persons who share one essence/substance

You and your mother is two different essences/substances.
Click to expand...

That is not what the doctrine/teaching of the Trinity is at all. Essence is "what a thing is," and all human persons have one essence, that is: humanity. Which is why they are all called "human." My mother has a human essence (what she is) and I also have the same (what I am), which is why we are both human.
 
Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
shunyadragon said:
It is described as three persons, not things, as One God, which is indeed Tritheism a form of polytheism including an incarnate Son seated on the right hand of the Father in heaven.
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a spirit isn't a person. a person can have a spirit but that is understood as a soul with relationship to the incarnation on earth. the bible in facts states without question that god is not a man, nor the son of man, thus god is not a person
 
Starlight

Starlight

Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
Lain said:
That is not what the doctrine/teaching of the Trinity is at all. Essence is "what a thing is," and all human persons have one essence, that is: humanity. Which is why they are all called "human." My mother has a human essence (what she is) and I also have the same (what I am), which is why we are both human.
Click to expand...
What you describe is tritheism
 
Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Lain said:
That is not what the doctrine/teaching of the Trinity is at all. Essence is "what a thing is," and all human persons have one essence, that is: humanity. Which is why they are all called "human." My mother has a human essence (what she is) and I also have the same (what I am), which is why we are both human.
Click to expand...
son of man can also be son of god. but not all see the sons of god as men; although they are understood by some to be prophets
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
firedragon said:
This is an English sentence. And this whole thing would depend on what kind of discussion it is. If its a plain old discussion over coffee in plain English you are right. But if its a philosophical discussion you are wrong. That maybe why the use of the word being had its nuances in early christianity.
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Yes, I would agree because from the Greek at Acts of the Apostles 17:29 B I find the 'divine being' to be like.
And at Hebrews 1:3 I find .... who 'being' beaming forth....
So, in early (1st century) Christianity the word indicating 'being' as only applied to God.
 
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