Is Hell permenant?

[sandy whitelinger]

Are the conditions of Hell permenant?

Is there an exit to hell?

Why or why not?

Perhaps you need to be very clear as to what you mean by hell. The common acceptance of what it is is not the true scriptural meaning. Do you mean Hades, Sheol (sp?), the lake of fire, or something else?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

This seems to be pretty much what the Babtist think.

Are they the followers of Babs?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

If I were a theist, I would have a difficult time believing hell was permanent. Then notion that a loving deity would condemn people to eternal torment seems rather strange.

This is a common failing, ascribing to God only one attribute.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Excellent scripture which proves Hell is an eternal place of torment reserved only for Satan and his angels.

No one born into this life will spend an eternity in Hell, except Satan and His angels, but many will spend time in Hell if they don't allow Jesus Christ's sacrafice to take affect in their lives by repenting and believing in Him and His teachings.

Rev. 20:15 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into thelake of fire."

 

[Bishka]

Rev. 20:15 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into thelake of fire."

We beleive in just more then the Bible.

 

[dawny0826]

We beleive in just more then the Bible.

Edit: I initially addressed this to Becky because this is her thread but I'm also curious to read what FFH has to say.

I'm curious, does another book or does other doctrine within your faith override the verse(s) in Revelation, which specifically state that those who are not found in the Book of Life will be subject to hellfire?

How do you interpret this verse...

Rev. 20:15 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into thelake of fire."

(I'll create another thread, if you'd prefer )

Thanks! I always appreciate your responses.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

We beleive in just more then the Bible.

Does this make the statement offered untrue?

 

[Bishka]

Does this make the statement offered untrue?

Not at all. It says they will be cast into the fire, but it doesn't mean that they can't come back out.

I'll leave further interpretation of LDS doctrine on this subject to someone more knowledgable then me. I'm still trying to figure it out myself.

 

[Hacker]

This question goes around and around in different variations. Once again I say...Karma, come to an understanding of impermanence and determinism.

Hell is not forever. There are epiphenomenal realms so fraught and wretched with suffering that yes, WE would recoil in horror of them and objectively describe them as Hell or layers of Hell. However, one only resides there until ones negative residual karmic energy (quith-pa, the soul wind: there are analogous concepts in LDS theology) is worked off, then ones psyche is released to reincarnate elsewhere, ususally following the usual mnemonic reconfiguration. One is then reborn into another world or dimension to continue the journey towards liberation. However damaging an experience of Hell is, the irony remains that full Enlightenment is not possible without it @ one "time" (so to speak) or other.

What do you consider our realm to be, mediocre? Or is it that your saying WE create our own hell in one's lifetime?
If you could explain this realm, how would you...since you speak of differing dimensions?

 

[FFH]

Rev. 20:15 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into thelake of fire."

i assumed he had the right scripture reference, but apparently not, that's what I get for not checking it myself.

I'll post the correct scripture reference regarding Satan and his angels being cast into the lake of fire, which he was referring to.

 

[FFH]

It's found in verse 10, of Revelations 20, not 15

Revelation 20: 10

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Edit: Sandy Whitlinger show me a scripture which says the average Joe on the street will burn throughout the eternities in hell because of his sins and because He chooses not to repent and believe in Christ and His teachings.

You can't find one.

 

[FFH]

Edit: I initially addressed this to Becky because this is her thread but I'm also curious to read what FFH has to say.

I'm curious, does another book or does other doctrine within your faith override the verse(s) in Revelation, which specifically state that those who are not found in the Book of Life will be subject to hellfire?

How do you interpret this verse...

Rev. 20:15 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into thelake of fire."

It's true that those who are not found in the Lambs Book of Life will be thrown into the lake of fire, but it does not say forever. This is the key to understanding God and His mercy. It does however say that they will be there during the Millenium (the thousand year period after Christ's reuturn) but then they will be redeemed from the lake of fire/hell to recieve a reward according to their works, beliefs, repentance, etc.

I'll say it again only Satan and his angels will spend and eternity in hell and probably people like the final anitchrist, but even they will go to a place called Outer Darkness which may be better when compared to hell, but a hellish place non the less. The average Joe sinner/non-beleiver will not be with this type of company for eternity. For instance we will all be in places and in company with those we are most like, as far as beliefs and adherances to righteous principles are concerned.

Do you think it would be fair for a loving God to send the average Joe/non-believer to hell for eternity in the same place with such a vile evil person such as the final antichrist, who will cause many to be killed because of their faith in God???.

God does not lump all people together but rewards us according to our works/righteousness and to the degree in which we believe and adhere to His righteous principles.

Hence the reason for three degrees of glory in LDS theology as well as a place of outer darkness reserved for the vilest of sinners, which I'm sure is even better than burning in hell for eternity.

 

[Katzpur]

Unless I'm mistaken, we believe in two entirely separate concepts of hell:

(1) The Spirit Prison (where the wicked go to await the resurrection). This is a temporary hell from which the spirit can be released upon acceptance of the gospel and repentence for one's sins. Undoubtedly a great many people will find themselves here after they die.

(2) Outer Darkness (where Satan, his angels, and those who commit the unpardonable sin -- blasphemy against the Holy Ghost go) at the time of the Second Resurrection. This is a permanent hell, but very few will ever go there.

 

[Bishka]

Unless I'm mistaken, we believe in two entirely separate concepts of hell:

(1) The Spirit Prison (where the wicked go to await the resurrection). This is a temporary hell from which the spirit can be released upon acceptance of the gospel and repentence for one's sins. Undoubtedly a great many people will find themselves here after they die.

(2) Outer Darkness (where Satan, his angels, and those who commit the unpardonable sin -- blasphemy against the Holy Ghost go) at the time of the Second Resurrection. This is a permanent hell, but very few will ever go there.

This is what I was trying to say, and yet again Katzpur says it much better then I. :bow:

 

[FFH]

Unless I'm mistaken, we believe in two entirely separate concepts of hell:

(1) The Spirit Prison (where the wicked go to await the resurrection). This is a temporary hell from which the spirit can be released upon acceptance of the gospel and repentence for one's sins. Undoubtedly a great many people will find themselves here after they die.

(2) Outer Darkness (where Satan, his angels, and those who commit the unpardonable sin -- blasphemy against the Holy Ghost go) at the time of the Second Resurrection. This is a permanent hell, but very few will ever go there.

Edit: Spirit Prison and Outer Darkness are not the same place as hell/lake of fire in my opinion.

Show me a scripture which states these two places are the same place as hell. They may be hellish places but they're not in the same location as hell/lake of fire and brimstone.

For instance It would be impossible to preach the gospel in such a setting as hell, hence a place called Spirit Prison, where many will be preached the gospel and be redeemed.

Edit: Also Outer Darkness could not be called Outer Darkness if their were flames there, which obviously give off some light.

 

[FFH]

Back to the original subject

Revelation 21: 8

But the fearful, and a unbelieving, and the abominable, and muderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Notice the word part, which means they will spend some time in hell/lake of fire, which purifies one from sin.

If a person does not except Jesus Christ as their Savior, repent and live His teachings, that person will have to suffer for their own sins, in hell, for a time, but then they will eventually be redeemed and a receive a reward according to their beliefs, degree of repentance and adherance to righteous principles.

As opposed to...

Revelation 20: 10, which emphazizes an eternal punishment fot Satan and his angels and the sons of perdition.

Edit: I have to add that those redeemed from hell do not necessarily live with God, the majority will live in the lowest of three kingdoms and some in the second kingdom, and some will live with God in the highest kingdom, according to LDS theology.

 

[Ronald]

At the second resurrection, the rest of the dead, the intermidiates (Tanach)or those with a form of godliness (NT)are judged by what they have done, if good to reward, the wicked along with death and hades are thrown into the lake of fire and are consumed. In the New Jerusalem, come down from heaven, there will be no death nor hades. Those in the first resurrection have allready lived and reigned with the King of Kings for a 1000 yrs, these will enter and exit the City by it gates, the rest of those who have been saved are outside the gates, being subjects of the "Elect" and may only look inside.

Shalom

 

[FFH]

Unless I'm mistaken, we believe in two entirely separate concepts of hell:

Also I have to add that we, as LDS, in my opinion, do believe in the same concept of hell, our own scriptures clearly speak of hell/lake of fire and brimstone. I know we have a more expanded view of the afterlife, but we still have the same basic teachings obout hell.

Book of Mormon
2 Nephi 9: 16, 19, 26

16 And assuredly, as the Lord liveth, for the Lord God hath spoken it, and it is his eternal word, which cannot pass away, that they who are righteous shall be righteous still, and they who are filthy shall be filthy still; wherefore, they who are filthy are the devil and his angels; and they shall go away into everlasting fire, prepared for them; and their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever and has no end.

19 O the greatness of the mercy of our God, the Holy One of Israel! For he delivereth his saints from that awful monster the devil, and death, and hell, and that lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment.

26 For the atonement satisfieth the demands of his justice upon all those who have not the law given to them, that they are delivered from that awful monster, death and hell, and the devil, and the lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment; and they are restored to that God who gave them breath, which is the Holy One of Israel.

I recognize that hell is an eternal place of torment, for which many will suffer for their own sins, as a result of not repenting of their own sins, and/or, a lack of belief in a Savior, to save them from their own sins.

Jesus said we would suffer even as He has suffered if we do not repent. This is what hell is for, to satisfy the demands of justice. Hell is an eternal (will always exist) place, but the torment experience in hell will not last for eternity, for at one point the demands of justice will be fulfilled, either by Jesus Christ, because of repentance, or by our own suffering in hell for our own sins.

God is merciful, we can never forget that.

 

[FFH]

Revelation 21: 8

But the fearful, and a unbelieving, and the abominable, and muderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death

The LDS canonized scripture is virtually identical to Revelation 21:8
Doctrine and Covenants 63: 17

Wherefore, I, the Lord have said that the fearful, and the unbelieving, and all liars, and whosever loveth and maketh a lie, and the whoremonger, and sorcerer, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Remember part means they will spen part of their eternity in hell but not all of eternity in hell.

Okay enough of my commenting.

This scriptures will explain the LDS view that all will be redeemed from hell except Satan, his angels and tho sons of perdition.

Doctrine and Covenants 76: 36 (back up to verse 31 and read through 49)

Basically this scrtpture states all who have ever lived and died on this earth will eventually be saved from having to spend an eternity in hell, except the sons of perdition (who are also defined in these verses) and their is even a hint as to a possible end to their eternal torment eventually as well.

 

[darkpenguin]

What if it wasn't permenant, would that change your mind at all? What if it was a place to repent of your sins, and then return the Father; something similar to when a child gets grounded, they go to their room, think about what they've done and come back out.

So killers and rapists etc get to repent and then live in happyness in heaven? Nice