Is it God's will when children are raped tortured, and murdered?

[1robin]

I believe it would benefit everyone if God would enlighten people to know the truth, so it ticks me off to see the misery that happens as a result of him refusing to...I already told you God didn't do any evil. IF God wants innocent people tortured, raped, and killed, that isn't evil...because if it is okay in God's eyes, than it obviously is okay, and God determines all of his actions are good...just cuz I think it is atrocious, I don't get to decide what is good or evil.

Everything you have said reminds me of myself when an atheist, when I had just become a babe in Christ (before my faith had matured through decades of obsessive study), seems to contract every famous commentary by spiritual giants concerning biblical exegesis, and which contradicts every mature Christian I have ever met so I cannot conclude you have been taught any spiritual truths from a book you hardly ever actually quote instead of making vacuous and generalized misrepresentative allegories of. Everything you say is a contradiction of emphatic scriptures that you don't seem to be aware of. Have you ever read a book by a theological expert on the problem of evil or actually investigated the context of any of the biblical stories that you vicariously condemn? I have, and so have grown beyond spiritual adolescence and I can allow the entire bible to comment of my understandings which in time have led me beyond the simplistic level of biblical understand you exhibit. In fact I have spent so much time in study to become mature in my understandings I dislike being bogged in these primitive commentaries on bits and pieces of the bible.

He most certainly is the Father who refused to tell his daughter not to get into the car with that serial killer, and knew the serial killer was going to kill her years in advance, and didn't warn her...this means Dad wanted his daughter to get raped and killed. That is obvious. End of story!

It certainly is the end of your story, I will no longer entertain you vacuous allegories unless you provide that actual biblical parallel they supposedly represent. If you cannot carry a point using the actual verses you dismiss then you can't do so using invented stories absent any verses at all.

Please answer this question:
If you have a pet mouse, and you let a boa constrictor go into the aquarium, and you sit back and watch the outcome, it is because you wanted the snake to eat the mouse, right? Would it violate the mouse's free-will to not let the snake into it's cage?

I have mentioned this more than once, it's past time that I act. You do not address your posts to me many times it is merely chance that I have noticed some. I cannot be expected to read every post in a thread just in case they are aimed at me. I officially wash my hands of this matter and will only respond to posts you address to me.

As stated there is no point in answering an invented story which you want so bad to apply to some verses you will not post. I no longer will even point out that you need to supply the actual verses your stories are supposed to represent. Either do so or they will be rejected out of hand. I am tired of trying to make your claims relevant. It isn't my task to preform, it's your responsibility.

 

[Spiderman]

Everything you have said reminds me of myself when an atheist, when I had just become a babe in Christ (before my faith had matured through decades of obsessive study), seems to contract every famous commentary by spiritual giants concerning biblical exegesis, and which contradicts every mature Christian I have ever met so I cannot conclude you have been taught any spiritual truths from a book you hardly ever actually quote instead of making vacuous and generalized misrepresentative allegories of. Everything you say is a contradiction of emphatic scriptures that you don't seem to be aware of. Have you ever read a book by a theological expert on the problem of evil or actually investigated the context of any of the biblical stories that you vicariously condemn? I have, and so have grown beyond spiritual adolescence and I can allow the entire bible to comment of my understandings which in time have led me beyond the simplistic level of biblical understand you exhibit. In fact I have spent so much time in study to become mature in my understandings I dislike being bogged in these primitive commentaries on bits and pieces of the bible.

It certainly is the end of your story, I will no longer entertain you vacuous allegories unless you provide that actual biblical parallel they supposedly represent. If you cannot carry a point using the actual verses you dismiss then you can't do so using invented stories absent any verses at all.

I have mentioned this more than once, it's past time that I act. You do not address your posts to me many times it is merely chance that I have noticed some. I cannot be expected to read every post in a thread just in case they are aimed at me. I officially wash my hands of this matter and will only respond to posts you address to me.

As stated there is no point in answering an invented story which you want so bad to apply to some verses you will not post. I no longer will even point out that you need to supply the actual verses your stories are supposed to represent. Either do so or they will be rejected out of hand. I am tired of trying to make your claims relevant. It isn't my task to preform, it's your responsibility.

Once again...it makes no sense for you to not answer a simple yes or no question... Read GENESIS 3...God let a snake into a garden that he knew would lead us all to death...I compared it to you letting a snake into an aquarium with a mouse..you watch the snake eat the mouse...you knew the snake would eat it...could you argue that you didn't want the snake to eat the mouse??? your refusal to answer this question clearly demonstrates total poverty in your ability to debate.

You know the answer , and there is absolutely a good reason for you not giving it. It is because it most certainly does prove my point. Seriously, if two politicians were debating and one repeatedly refused to answer a simple yes or no black-and-white question like that, it would be a shameful disgrace indeed, and everyone would know who lost the debate...(and they would also know why the candidate repeatedly refused to answer the question)

 

[Spiderman]

@1robin

So, since you refuse to answer black and white yes or no questions...I'll answer them for you...

If a babysitter gives permission for a murderer ( they could easily overpower), permission to kill your kids, NO, you would not believe the excuse that they didn't want any harm to come to your kids.

If God doesn't want Satan to confuse or harm someone, can Satan still do so?

The Devil cannot harm anyone God doesn't give him permission to harm.

If you let a snake into the aquarium with your pet mouse and you know the snake will eat the mouse, it is because you want the snake to eat the mouse. Does it violate the mouses free-will to not let the snake into the aquarium? NO!

You refused to answer those simple questions that you knew applied to what I mentioned...God giving Satan permission to kill Jobs family (like a babysitter giving someone permission to kill somebody's kids. You totally got the comparison but pretended you didn't because you knew you couldn't win the debate).

The snake and mouse analogy was clearly a comparison with the Garden of Eden so you absolutely knew which verses I was linking them to, because one came after the other...but even if you didn't, a scripture verses is not necessary to answer a question. You asked me questions without a Scripture verse to link them to....in a debate, it truly looks pitiful to not answer a repeated black and white yes or no question.

Is it Biblically sound that God could enlighten people? Yes Does God have to let the Devil confuse, deceive, torment, steal, kill, and destroy, in order for free-will to be a reality? No! He doesn't. So, why then does the Devil confuse, lead astray, deceive, torment, steal, kill, rape, and destroy? Because God wants him to. It isn't deniable from a Biblical perspective because God is in control of whether or not the devil can harm or deceive us.

Can God end confusion and strengthen people to be more like Christ and better resist Satan without violating free-will. Yes, he can do so and it wouldn't cost him a penny.

If you are destined to be raped and killed in High school, does your Dad in Heaven know that was your destiny even before you were born? Did he know where, when, how, and all the details years in advance...

...yes he did....could he have warned you on what you could do to avoid it and let you know of the danger? Yes he could. so why didn't he? because he wanted you to get raped and killed. He knew it was your destiny the moment you were born and when he was forming the serial killer in his Mother's womb, he knew he was destined to kill you. That is obvious!

 

[1robin]

The Topic is not about Biblical Allegories, so you are absolutely admitting defeat by not answering a simple question. Asking a question about faith and morals that is totally relevant to the discussion is something anyone trying to save face in a debate would answer...You know what I'm getting at and you know you've lost the arguement, because your premise is nonsensical.

That is not what I said. You first butcher biblical doctrines, then skip be bothered to post anything biblical at all, then you destroy what I have said. You do all this in one post addressed to me, then in another where you merely mention me but leave out what I said, and in other posts by not mentioning me at all and leaving out everything I said. I was not talking about biblical allegories because you are not posting any. I said to stop merely posting stories you invent without also linking them to the actual verses you claim they represent. Until you do I am going to start ignoring them. I have no idea what so ever stories biblical stories your stories are claimed to represent. I wish I could think of which words out of the 750,000
you claim to represent but I can't even though I have studied almost all the scriptures that deal with God's allowing evil. I can not even think of any candidates. Why not do your job in a debate and link actual verses to your stories?

God gave Satan permission to kill Jobs family...Satan needed his permission...if a babysitter gives a murderer permission to kill your kids, would you believe that the babysitter didn't want anyone to harm your kids...yes or no?

Hey, an actual verse. Hallelujah a bitter dismissal of an actual bible verse in a claiming railing against the bible. It's a miracle.

Job is not a book I regularly debate so I had to spend a few minutes reacquainting myself with it. What every great scholar points out is that no one knows whether the book of Job describes literal history or an allegory written by others. Whether written by Job, Elihu, or Moses etc...... So I seriously doubt you know it's status whether it was literal or not. However lets move on. Whether it was literal or not it was a singular event in which Job suffered with God's permission so as to exhibit the sovereignty, power, and eventual deliverance of God's power over great adversity. I guess your trying to say God is evil for allowing Job to suffer, again God is not making Job suffer he is allowing Job to suffer as a singular example that points to anyone suffering and their proper attitude towards their suffering. Please take note the perseverance shown even in Job's confusion is completely contradicted by your response to his suffering. he did not curse God when he himself was suffering yet that is what your doing which was the opposite of the message. IOW God used job the show the exact opposite (and the correct response) to suffering in general we should conclude and that you are denying. Job's suffering was made vain in your life, in effect making his suffering truly pointless in it's influence concerning you. Job, the person who actually suffered did not make the conclusions you are (and your not even suffering as Job did). In fact whether there was a job who actually suffered anything or not the story is not even about him. It is an archetype of how we should react to either our own suffering or the Churches' suffering through the ages. Some say it was written by Moses for that very purpose. Regardless the stories function is to precisely stop anyone from concluding what you have in the face of suffering. Why are you on the opposite side from every biblical writer God has chosen to illustrate the proper attitude toward suffering. Was it not the disciples that said to suffer like Christ had was an honor for them to experience. Thank God they and not you were made a disciple as you would have given up and cursed God the moment you suffered anything and I would have never been saved. Bible verses take and demand a whole lot more studying than you seem to devote to them. Why is only my response a poor effort at including the context and proper understanding of complex bible events? I could quote a hundred instances in the bible (and have only scratched the surface here) where we are emphatically instructed in the proper response to suffering and all of them contradict your take on it. Job is probably the greatest example of a biblical book that trips up immature Christians as it takes years of work to properly come to grips with the deep and exhaustive context that Biblical verses take place in. The bible cannot be properly understood by a casual surface reading. Try starting here: https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/matthew-henry/Job

BTW: Why retain faith in a God as unjust as the one you believe in? I would have chunked any pretends to allegiance in a God as evil as the one you describe. You I hope see that when you actually post verses I take more time with them in spades than you did when posting them.

 

[Spiderman]

That is not what I said. You first butcher biblical doctrines, then skip be bothered to post anything biblical at all, then you destroy what I have said. You do all this in one post addressed to me, then in another where you merely mention me but leave out what I said, and in other posts by not mentioning me at all and leaving out everything I said. I was not talking about biblical allegories because you are not posting any. I said to stop merely posting stories you invent without also linking them to the actual verses you claim they represent. Until you do I am going to start ignoring them. I have no idea what so ever stories biblical stories your stories are claimed to represent. I wish I could think of which words out of the 750,000
you claim to represent but I can't even though I have studied almost all the scriptures that deal with God's allowing evil. I can not even think of any candidates. Why not do your job in a debate and link actual verses to your stories?

Hey, an actual verse. Hallelujah a bitter dismissal of an actual bible verse in a claiming railing against the bible. It's a miracle.

Job is not a book I regularly debate so I had to spend a few minutes reacquainting myself with it. What every great scholar points out is that no one knows whether the book of Job describes literal history or an allegory written by others. Whether written by Job, Elihu, or Moses etc...... So I seriously doubt you know it's status whether it was literal or not. However lets move on. Whether it was literal or not it was a singular event in which Job suffered with God's permission so as to exhibit the sovereignty, power, and eventual deliverance of God's power over great adversity. I guess your trying to say God is evil for allowing Job to suffer, again God is not making Job suffer he is allowing Job to suffer as a singular example that points to anyone suffering and their proper attitude towards their suffering. Please take note the perseverance shown even in Job's confusion is completely contradicted by your response to his suffering. he did not curse God when he himself was suffering yet that is what your doing which was the opposite of the message. IOW God used job the show the exact opposite (and the correct response) to suffering in general we should conclude and that you are denying. Job's suffering was made vain in your life, in effect making his suffering truly pointless in it's influence concerning you. Job, the person who actually suffered did not make the conclusions you are (and your not even suffering as Job did). In fact whether there was a job who actually suffered anything or not the story is not even about him. It is an archetype of how we should react to either our own suffering or the Churches' suffering through the ages. Some say it was written by Moses for that very purpose. Regardless the stories function is to precisely stop anyone from concluding what you have in the face of suffering. Why are you on the opposite side from every biblical writer God has chosen to illustrate the proper attitude toward suffering. Was it not the disciples that said to suffer like Christ had was an honor for them to experience. Thank God they and not you were made a disciple as you would have given up and cursed God the moment you suffered anything and I would have never been saved. Bible verses take and demand a whole lot more studying than you seem to devote to them. Why is only my response a poor effort at including the context and proper understanding of complex bible events? I could quote a hundred instances in the bible (and have only scratched the surface here) where we are emphatically instructed in the proper response to suffering and all of them contradict your take on it. Job is probably the greatest example of a biblical book that trips up immature Christians as it takes years of work to properly come to grips with the deep and exhaustive context that Biblical verses take place in. The bible cannot be properly understood by a casual surface reading. Try starting here: https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/matthew-henry/Job

BTW: Why retain faith in a God as unjust as the one you believe in? I would have chunked any pretends to allegiance in a God as evil as the one you describe. You I hope see that when you actually post verses I take more time with them in spades than you did when posting them.

See...you aren't listening clearly...I said that maybe the Old Testament is falsehood, so maybe God isn't that way afterall...My experience with God is that He is nothing like that (killing someone for working on the wrong day of the week) Hence, I'm thoroughly disgusted with the Old Testament misrepresenting him.

But since Apparently you are Baptist, you believe the book of JOB and entire Old Testament was inspired by God...so God inspired it whether it was literal or not (according to your belief.)

(Also, whether I address you or not, you know who im talking to obviously.)

ABSOLUTELY NOT! (Regarding your comment about my seeing Jobs suffering as evil)...I've explained this to you many many many times...you are clearly playing games now.

The conversation was about whether God wants people to get raped, tortured, and murdered, not whether or not God is wrong or evil for wanting it. God decides what's good, so his plan is good in his eyes, therefore it is good, not evil...i've explained this to you over and over and over again, yet you keep playing your games...Im not saying Job's suffering was evil...im saying God wanted him to lose his family, get sick, and be a miserable tortured soul for a period of time.

So, God allows the Devil to torment, rape, kill, steal, and destroy. (Like someone putting a cat or snake in the same aquarium with a mouse. They know it will pulverize the animal and don't have to let it be in the same cage. The person who puts them together wants the outcome and knows what it will be.) Does this mean it is evil. No, in God's eyes he wants them to be tortured, deceived, tempted, raped, killed, and sifted like wheat for his glory, our glory, and the greater good. In God's eyes it's beautiful. (Assuming He is in control that is).

 

[1robin]

See...you aren't listening clearly...I said that maybe the Old Testament is falsehood, so maybe God isn't that way afterall...My experience with God is that He is nothing like that (killing someone for working on the wrong day of the week) Hence, I'm thoroughly disgusted with the Old Testament misrepresenting him.

Ok you have made six posts addressed at me, others that mentioned me, and still other that apparently were aimed at me that I by accident saw and responded to. We have been this issue to death and I am getting bored so after I respond to the 3 or so posts from you outstanding I suggest we pick up a new topic and you post fewer but more relevant responses regarding.

Since God exists and thousands of people suffer everyday then the problem (despite there actually being no problem at all) of a good God and the existence of evil still would have existed if it ever has even if you throw out the OT.

The difference in the OT (it being blunt and crude) and the NT (being meek and mild) is because of purpose. The OT is merely a type and shadow of the NT. The NT contains much more clear revelation and it concerning clearly spiritual matters compared to the OT. The OTs purpose was to clean up and preserve the moral excellence of the Jewish people as God conduit for revelation. It was a book that demanded moral excellence from his chosen people so that the revelation given to them would have a greater impact than if given to a people that were as corrupt as their neighbors. Because the Jews kept falling into the habits of their neighbors God had to keep smacking them down and then raising them up again to maintain the morality of his revelational conduit. The OT was therefore concerned more with a peoples imperfect compared to the NTs concern with perfect love and forgiveness. They are represent two different purposes and covenants. You like the NT more because it did not have to be concerned with attempting to perfect man by force and God's terrible justice and could deal with God's perfect love. The first dealt with an imperfect earthly kingdom and the later dealt with God's perfect love and forgiveness. We needed both and neither could be dispensed with as your attempting to do. Who gave you an eraser to decide what is God's word based on what you like? Again you sound like Thomas Jefferson who was definitely no Christian. You need to be more like Thomas Jackson (Stonewall) who zealously believed in both the unpleasant and pleasant without need of an eraser.

But since Apparently you are Baptist, you believe the book of JOB and entire Old Testament was inspired by God...so God inspired it whether it was literal or not (according to your belief.)

Of course he did which is the belief of all mainstream denominations for thousands of years. It is you who belong to a tiny fringe group of historical Christianity at best.

(Also, whether I address you or not, you know who im talking to obviously.)

Maybe, maybe not but I will not know for the posts which I have no reason to read at all. I generally do not read posts unless I get an alert to those addressed to me nor should I be expected to.

ABSOLUTELY NOT! (Regarding your comment about my seeing Jobs suffering as evil)...I've explained this to you many many many times...you are clearly playing games now.

If not then what in the world are you rejecting, and on what basis are you cutting the bible to pieces as to what you accept and not on.

The conversation was about whether God wants people to get raped, tortured, and murdered, not whether or not God is wrong or evil for wanting it. God decides what's good, so his plan is good in his eyes, therefore it is good, not evil...i've explained this to you over and over and over again, yet you keep playing your games...Im not saying Job's suffering was evil...im saying God wanted him to lose his family, get sick, and be a miserable tortured soul for a period of time.

If his allowing it is morally justifiable then you agree to what I have been saying for days and you do not have (nor ever had) any reason to complain and reject more than half of the bible.

So, God allows the Devil to torment, rape, kill, steal, and destroy. (Like someone putting a cat or snake in the same aquarium with a mouse. They know it will pulverize the animal and don't have to let it be in the same cage. The person who puts them together wants the outcome and knows what it will be.) Does this mean it is evil. No, in God's eyes he wants them to be tortured, deceived, tempted, raped, killed, and sifted like wheat for his glory, our glory, and the greater good. In God's eyes it's beautiful. (Assuming He is in control that is).

I cannot possibly cover every example you might conjure up. I have dealt with the entire subject of the presence of evil and the existence of a morally perfect God. I have shown that the two are not contradictory and that God can easily have moral justification for allowing suffering and evil. It does not become any less true (and you have admitted that it is true after denying it several times) because I respond to the worst terms you can use to describe any single example of this you can possibly cough up. My point is granted and has carried the argument in it's classic form. The issue is concluded.

I will not promise to carry on with this mess of a debate after I respond to the 2 posts I have received alerts for at this time, keep that in mind and don't waste you time. The subject has become tiresome and you have become contradictory: admitting and then denying what I have been arguing for, for days now. To keep this going is pointless. You have got two more responses coming and that's all I intend to provide on this issue.

BTW: Everything the devil did to or took from Job was healed or more than replaced by God. It was to Jobs honor to suffer for God's creation and in no other way could God pass down for hundreds of generations an example for us (and the church) as to what we should think about when we suffer, which we all do. Job is in every way better off for his temporary suffering.

 

[Spiderman]

Ok you have made six posts addressed at me, others that mentioned me, and still other that apparently were aimed at me that I by accident saw and responded to. We have been this issue to death and I am getting bored so after I respond to the 3 or so posts from you outstanding I suggest we pick up a new topic and you post fewer but more relevant responses regarding.

Since God exists and thousands of people suffer everyday then the problem (despite there actually being no problem at all) of a good God and the existence of evil still would have existed if it ever has even if you throw out the OT.

The difference in the OT (it being blunt and crude) and the NT (being meek and mild) is because of purpose. The OT is merely a type and shadow of the NT. The NT contains much more clear revelation and it concerning clearly spiritual matters compared to the OT. The OTs purpose was to clean up and preserve the moral excellence of the Jewish people as God conduit for revelation. It was a book that demanded moral excellence from his chosen people so that the revelation given to them would have a greater impact than if given to a people that were as corrupt as their neighbors. Because the Jews kept falling into the habits of their neighbors God had to keep smacking them down and then raising them up again to maintain the morality of his revelational conduit. The OT was therefore concerned more with a peoples imperfect compared to the NTs concern with perfect love and forgiveness. They are represent two different purposes and covenants. You like the NT more because it did not have to be concerned with attempting to perfect man by force and God's terrible justice and could deal with God's perfect love. The first dealt with an imperfect earthly kingdom and the later dealt with God's perfect love and forgiveness. We needed both and neither could be dispensed with as your attempting to do. Who gave you an eraser to decide what is God's word based on what you like? Again you sound like Thomas Jefferson who was definitely no Christian. You need to be more like Thomas Jackson (Stonewall) who zealously believed in both the unpleasant and pleasant without need of an eraser.

Of course he did which is the belief of all mainstream denominations for thousands of years. It is you who belong to a tiny fringe group of historical Christianity at best.

Maybe, maybe not but I will not know for the posts which I have no reason to read at all. I generally do not read posts unless I get an alert to those addressed to me nor should I be expected to.

If not then what in the world are you rejecting, and on what basis are you cutting the bible to pieces as to what you accept and not on.

If his allowing it is morally justifiable then you agree to what I have been saying for days and you do not have (nor ever had) any reason to complain and reject more than half of the bible.

I cannot possibly cover every example you might conjure up. I have dealt with the entire subject of the presence of evil and the existence of a morally perfect God. I have shown that the two are not contradictory and that God can easily have moral justification for allowing suffering and evil. It does not become any less true (and you have admitted that it is true after denying it several times) because I respond to the worst terms you can use to describe any single example of this you can possibly cough up. My point is granted and has carried the argument in it's classic form. The issue is concluded.

I will not promise to carry on with this mess of a debate after I respond to the 2 posts I have received alerts for at this time, keep that in mind and don't waste you time. The subject has become tiresome and you have become contradictory: admitting and then denying what I have been arguing for, for days now. To keep this going is pointless. You have got two more responses coming and that's all I intend to provide on this issue.

BTW: Everything the devil did to or took from Job was healed or more than replaced by God. It was to Jobs honor to suffer for God's creation and in no other way could God pass down for hundreds of generations an example for us (and the church) as to what we should think about when we suffer, which we all do. Job is in every way better off for his temporary suffering.

You are being dishonest again. I said many times, God decides what's good, and since he wants Satan to tempt, deceive , confuse,, possess, rape, kill, steal, and destroy , it is a good thing , because God decides what the definition of good is, and everything he does is good, including wanting the Devil to be God of this world.

However, I don't have to agree with what goes against my conscience. Moses essentially told God his decision to lead Israel out of bondage Into the Wilderness to destroy them, was an asinine idea, and scripture says "God repented." it was very good that Moses was disgusted with some of God's policies.

I never admitted what I formerly denied.

However, just because an ancient text says something, doesn't make it true. Your basis for believing it to be all true is entirely based on faith, which means you dont know it is. You simply read a book and came to the conclusion the book was inerrant. So do muslims, and they are willing to die for the lie.

The answer is yes, God wants some children tortured and murdered , because he tortured and murdered children in the Bible, destined his son to be tortured and murdered, created the Devil (knowing what he would do ) and gave him permission to steal, kill, destroy, and deceive, when he could have easily locked him up.

For you to argue otherwise is to deny the obvious, so, case -closed, God wants evil in our world and the cruel atrocities that it leads to.

Therefore, God clearly wants enemies because he creates them knowing that they will become his enemies, and since God created all of the Fallen Angels, God is the author of evil too, because he knew the actions of the angels and creatures he made and it was all part of his plan.

 

[Spiderman]

The mystery of evil is a mystery impossible to understand....the fact that God wants much evil and atrocities to take place is not a mystery...IT IS OBVIOUS!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

@PopeADope

I'm open to having a one on one debate with you about this. Not right now, because I'm crazy busy, but in a couple days or so, if you want.

 

[Spiderman]

@PopeADope

I'm open to having a one on one debate with you about this. Not right now, because I'm crazy busy, but in a couple days or so, if you want.

If you like.... But it will probably be a rerun of this

 

[ukok102nak]

:smoke: we really like to reply unto something like this and
sometimes ask question
such as this (WE
NEVER INTENDED TO PUT A OFFTOPIC SITUATION
FOR WE ARE
JUST ASKIN
CAUSE WE ARE NOT ALL KNOWING )
:read:
how are we goin to divide into constituent or distinct elements such as preachin and
especially proselytizing and
specially SOLICITING or
try to obtain (something) from someone
(THIS TICKLE A LOT
FOR WE NEVER TOOK ANYTHING
UNTO ANYONE
EVERSINCE WE LEARNED TO ACCEPT
WHAT IS GOOD AND WHO CANNOT LIE)
and many more

 but sometimes with an
honest mistakes
sometimes took it as those kind of things
(preachin , proselytizing and many more)

~;> we are kindly new here so
bear with us cause if we are goin to debate
are we not supposed to put our own belief
and that's why
sometimes misunderstood it
but with a truthful conversation and
with unintentional displaying of acts
as it is just a misinterpretation unto our belief
to distinguished it from each and everyone's
belief of every individuals
and we're not saying its someone's fault or
anyother way around
as what we've said earlier
sometimes someone like them
who mistakenly (an honest mistakes) thought it as it is
as what they forbid here in RF
and again
we humbly consider to rational between facts and beliefs
for
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

hope you could enlighten us with this
one single question and
hope this is not to much to ask


:ty:



godbless
unto all always

 

[atanu]

Nothing torments my mind more than hearing about children being sexually assaulted , tortured, and killed. What I find also slightly mind -boggling is how many Christians say "God never wills that should happen to anyone. "
How can a person really make such an argument? If you have a daughter that you knew from her birth was going to be slain by a serial killer.... You knew who the serial killer was, where he lived, you could have found ways to get him arrested or killed, or you could have moved to another state, and instead you just let it play out, then you clearly willed your daughter to be the prey of a serial killer.
If it was God's will that his own son (Jesus) be tortured, humiliated, and executed, it would be a bit of a stretch to assume he doesn't will such things to happen to his other children as well (just look at the fate of the early Christians ).
So, your prayer for your son or daughter may be that they become a missionary, have a big happy family, do well in school, stay safe and healthy etc. , but God may will they get murdered in high school.
If you let a terrorist into your house , knowing with 100% certainty that He will blow it up ( long in advance you knew where he stored his weapons and could have got him arrested) it is because it was your will he would blow up your house.
If God didn't want people to be tortured and murdered, then it wouldn't be happening every day, would not have happened to the prophets, the Apostles, the early Christians, or so many Christians today.
Paul, Jesus, and so many Christians counted it an honor to suffer and die for their Righteousness.
2 Corinthians 12:10
That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
Any thoughts?
Once again, If I am a Father, and someone is going to kill my child, and I know it will happen in advance, and I could arrange circumstances so that my child can escape , or restrain the man (Or get police to restrain him) and instead I let the person kill my child, it is because I willed it.
The people who crucified Christ were only fulfilling the method by which God wanted his son to be glorified. Scripture makes that clear.
John 12:23 ►
Jesus replied, "The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified (Crucified)...
But please... If you think im wrong about this, do share...thanks

The following is a personal Hindu understanding. I have strongly picked a 'No'.

It is a difficult question and all religious interpreters play around this and many atheists are atheists because of this. As per Hinduism, creator Deity is only an aspect of Brahman, the immutable highest that cannot have any will. In my understanding, a metaphoric story, approximately similar in Hinduism and Christianity, may help explain this.

There is a story of two birds of same feather that abide in self same tree (body). One bird that is not Lord eats objects of knowledge (objects that are fundamentally made of thought matter) and gets deluded. The other bird, the Lord bird, eats nothing but merely Sees. So, once the objects of knowledge are tasted and the delusion process begins, the whole cycle will be played out .. there is no escape, God or no God. Brahman, the immutable, is the common knowledge factor, in both the birds.

It is said that the karma cycle comes to end when the non Lord bird introverts the vision and sees the Lord bird in the same self body.

 

[ukok102nak]

@ atanu

this non Lord bird who sees the Lord bird in the same self body.
is something like as this as is it written
(carefully check every single detail on it
then kindly correct us if we are wrong)
:read:
And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue has his name Apollyon.
One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

as they say
:read:
Think not that we come to disobey the rules, or the belief of individual: we not come to disobey, but to fulfill.


:ty:



godbless
unto all always

 

[Spiderman]

Revelation 20:3 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
He threw Satan into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free...

So, the biggest factor in whether the nations were deceived was whether or not Satan was locked up....

After 1,000 years it probably got rather boring, so God put the wolf back in the sheepfold to harass, attack, lead astray, torment, deceive, rape, steal, destroy, and kill.... Obviously God wants it.

 

[ukok102nak]

@ PopeADope

not until the fulfillment
of the prophesy
cause your prophesying now
as in prophesying
that (a specified thing) will happen in the future
such as this
(as is it written carefully check every single detail on it
then kindly correct us if we are wrong)
:read:
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Behold, I have told you before.

~;> (so as is it written carefully check every single detail on it
then kindly correct us if we are wrong)
:read:
So likewise all of you, when all of you shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words b shall not pass away.


:ty:



godbless
unto all always

 

[Hawkins]

@1robin
Did God create the serpent and let it into a garden knowing in advance it would lead Adam and eve and all of us to death?

The story is about how freewill works. It's more of a prophecy telling that in a place (say, our planet earth), if a human (Adam) failed to uphold his faith in God may fall and leading to his death (it's a second death in case of humans on earth).

Currently, all humans are under the influence of the snake.

 

[Skwim]

Currently, all humans are under the influence of the snake.

And obviously just how god wants it.

"Shake on it buddy!"

"You bet!"​

.​

.​

 

[ukok102nak]

• Revelation 20:3 ►

Parallel Verses
New International Version
He threw Satan into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free...

So, the biggest factor in whether the nations were deceived was whether or not Satan was locked up....

After 1,000 years it probably got rather boring, so God put the wolf back in the sheepfold to harass, attack, lead astray, torment, deceive, rape, steal, destroy, and kill.... Obviously God wants it.

~;> before you start prophesying
that (a specified thing) will happen in the future
at least you should be more honest
to post THE WRITTEN SCRIPTURE IN THE BIBLE . ...
and not just singledly pick unto anything which written in there
so that you may not be lost unto what your searchin for
Thus says the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

but sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason e of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

. ... so as it is written
carefully check every single detail on it
then kindly correct us if we are wrong
:read:
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word a of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.


:ty:



godbless
unto all always

 

[Spiderman]

And obviously just how god wants it.

"Shake on it buddy!"

"You bet!"​

.​

.​

As obvious as declaring that if you drop a heavy object off a building it goes down rather than up. To listen to a person who believes God has total control and that he created the Devil in advance ( knowing he would be god of this world for a time) argue that God doesn't want people raped, tortured, murdered, deceived, and lead astray, is no less ridiculous than to listen to a person arguing that if I drop a fridge off a cliff, it will go up rather than down, or 1+1 =3

 

[Hawkins]

And obviously just how god wants it.

"Shake on it buddy!"

"You bet!"​

.​

.​

Do you mean that they are not human wants?

Earth is a place for all human sins to be exposed such that evil caused by freewill can be openly eliminated once and for all.

God gives each one a life time to show himself up then gets eliminated if he's not qualified to live an eternity. So that no one can bring his crap to the future heaven.