Is it God's will when children are raped tortured, and murdered?

[Spiderman]

That is not what I said. You first butcher biblical doctrines, then skip be bothered to post anything biblical at all, then you destroy what I have said. You do all this in one post addressed to me, then in another where you merely mention me but leave out what I said, and in other posts by not mentioning me at all and leaving out everything I said. I was not talking about biblical allegories because you are not posting any. I said to stop merely posting stories you invent without also linking them to the actual verses you claim they represent. Until you do I am going to start ignoring them. I have no idea what so ever stories biblical stories your stories are claimed to represent. I wish I could think of which words out of the 750,000
you claim to represent but I can't even though I have studied almost all the scriptures that deal with God's allowing evil. I can not even think of any candidates. Why not do your job in a debate and link actual verses to your stories?

Hey, an actual verse. Hallelujah a bitter dismissal of an actual bible verse in a claiming railing against the bible. It's a miracle.

Job is not a book I regularly debate so I had to spend a few minutes reacquainting myself with it. What every great scholar points out is that no one knows whether the book of Job describes literal history or an allegory written by others. Whether written by Job, Elihu, or Moses etc...... So I seriously doubt you know it's status whether it was literal or not. However lets move on. Whether it was literal or not it was a singular event in which Job suffered with God's permission so as to exhibit the sovereignty, power, and eventual deliverance of God's power over great adversity. I guess your trying to say God is evil for allowing Job to suffer, again God is not making Job suffer he is allowing Job to suffer as a singular example that points to anyone suffering and their proper attitude towards their suffering. Please take note the perseverance shown even in Job's confusion is completely contradicted by your response to his suffering. he did not curse God when he himself was suffering yet that is what your doing which was the opposite of the message. IOW God used job the show the exact opposite (and the correct response) to suffering in general we should conclude and that you are denying. Job's suffering was made vain in your life, in effect making his suffering truly pointless in it's influence concerning you. Job, the person who actually suffered did not make the conclusions you are (and your not even suffering as Job did). In fact whether there was a job who actually suffered anything or not the story is not even about him. It is an archetype of how we should react to either our own suffering or the Churches' suffering through the ages. Some say it was written by Moses for that very purpose. Regardless the stories function is to precisely stop anyone from concluding what you have in the face of suffering. Why are you on the opposite side from every biblical writer God has chosen to illustrate the proper attitude toward suffering. Was it not the disciples that said to suffer like Christ had was an honor for them to experience. Thank God they and not you were made a disciple as you would have given up and cursed God the moment you suffered anything and I would have never been saved. Bible verses take and demand a whole lot more studying than you seem to devote to them. Why is only my response a poor effort at including the context and proper understanding of complex bible events? I could quote a hundred instances in the bible (and have only scratched the surface here) where we are emphatically instructed in the proper response to suffering and all of them contradict your take on it. Job is probably the greatest example of a biblical book that trips up immature Christians as it takes years of work to properly come to grips with the deep and exhaustive context that Biblical verses take place in. The bible cannot be properly understood by a casual surface reading. Try starting here: https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/matthew-henry/Job

BTW: Why retain faith in a God as unjust as the one you believe in? I would have chunked any pretends to allegiance in a God as evil as the one you describe. You I hope see that when you actually post verses I take more time with them in spades than you did when posting them.

As Skwim's signature states:

If you are sticking to "No" in an answer to question "Does God want some of his children to be tortured and murdered"

You either A) believe God doesn't have control or didn't know the viscious animal would attack his children before he put it in the room with them, and then didn't have the ability to remove the animal after it started raping, mutilating, and killing his kids.

B) you deny the obvious in front of everyone and it is very clear in that you wont answer simple questions...the simple questions are very accurate to God creating a monster knowing it would harm us and then let it get close to us and do the viscious, cruel, gruesome behavior he knew the monster would do.

You keep claiming that somehow my examples aren't accurate with the Bible...Surely they are...Did God create the Monster (Satan) knowing he would harm us, and then did he have to let Satan roam our world harming us? Well, you know the answer is yes he knew the monster would harm us while he was creating it, and no, he didn't have to let the monster get near us and do what monsters do, so that is just as clearly something God willed as if a person put a snake in a cage with his pet and knew it would eat it.

So my comparison's are Biblically sound ( as anyone can see, just some are in denial and most people here don't believe in the Bible being inerrant, so they voted no..)

He wanted it to happen and you know it. You are clearly in denial about the nature of God, and you want so badly to believe God wouldn't want that because it goes against your conscience. God doesn't have to abide by what is right and wrong in your eyes.

You deny the obvious

 

[Skwim]

As obvious as declaring that if you drop a heavy object off a building it goes down rather than up. To listen to a person who believes God has total control and that he created the Devil in advance ( knowing he would be god of this world for a time) argue that God doesn't want people raped, tortured, murdered, deceived, and lead astray, is no less ridiculous than to listen to a person arguing that if I drop a fridge off a cliff, it will go up rather than down, or 1+1 =3

Yup!

Do you mean that they are not human wants?

Do you want people raped, tortured, murdered, deceived, and lead astray? In short, no I don't believe this is what humans want.

Earth is a place for all human sins to be exposed such that evil caused by freewill can be openly eliminated once and for all.

Obviously man can't do this, so what's god waiting for? Depending on whom you listen to mankind has been waiting anywhere from about six thousand to a million years or so for god to take care of evil.

God gives each one a life time to show himself up then gets eliminated if he's not qualified to live an eternity.

Although he gives some only few years or months to do it, and then kaput!

So that no one can bring his crap to the future heaven.

Of course not. For those who haven't heard his word or remain unconvinced they get to go to Hell. And people call your god "just."

.

 

[ukok102nak]

:smoke: this explain a lot unto
what christjesus said
about him and his father are one
as it is written carefully check
every single detail on it then
kindly correct us if we are wrong
:read:
21 That they all may be one; as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that you have sent me.
22 And the glory which you gave me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

:ty:
​

As obvious as declaring that if you drop a heavy object off a building it goes down rather than up. To listen to a person who believes God has total control and that he created the Devil in advance ( knowing he would be god of this world for a time) argue that God doesn't want people raped, tortured, murdered, deceived, and lead astray, is no less ridiculous than to listen to a person arguing that if I drop a fridge off a cliff, it will go up rather than down, or 1+1 =3

godbless
unto all always

 

[Milton Platt]

No. "Will" implies something you consciously wish to come about or work to have come about. If you believe in the mainstream/traditional Christian definition of God, He never wills evil things for His creation. That's where free will comes into play. Our wills are free to pursue whatever goals we please, regardless of it aligns with God's or not. God does not want us to be robots and He expects us to do work, as well. How else will we ever learn and grow?

Similarly, just because God knows something will happen doesn't mean He supports it or otherwise wills it to happen. He just knows what choices you will make and He knew them before the universe was even created. But it's still you making said choices.

But I thought it was said that nothing happens that would be against god's will. Furthermore, you are saying that a human's will supersedes a god's will.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Also, I almost drowned to death.... Came very close to the point where when I reached land I was temporarily blind from oxygen deprivation and had a splitting headache and exhaustion for the rest of the day.

I once slipped out of my inflatable tube in a hotel swimming pool. I looked around, still breathing, wondering how I ended up in a concrete room and wondering why the air felt so "heavy". My mom said she pulled me up immediately, but for me it seemed like entire minutes was spent breathing under water. I don't care to repeat the experience, though, LOL.

But the Old Testament is often the opposite of what Jesus taught, so I don't think Jesus is very offended that I'm disgusted with it, (for it goes against my conscience as the epitome of tyranny and cruelty and goes against the morality and ethics Christ taught us ) or that I doubt some of it's authenticity.

To be fair, though, in the OT, God feels sorry He overreacted after the Flood. We don't get the same apology in Revelations, in the NT.

The bible says that those who are not believers are blind concerning God's truth and walk in darkness.

There is also thanks given to the ignorant, for they are the only people stupid enough to believe what some of them were selling. You should WANT people to be enlightened and "judge the tree by its fruit", but some apostles (we don't have gospels from all 12, after all) apparently want to give you a picture of an orange and tell you they've tasted this banana and it's the best thing they have ever done and if you don't eat this "banana" you will die.

I will supply what Christ himself claims makes a Christian

Impressive, since the term wasn't invented until after his death.

Scripture is to be studied in the light of our experiencing God.

God told me humans wrote it and He didn't even do or say a lot of the things in there. Now what?

Then why are you so bitter and so quick to condemn entire categories of God's actions or permissiveness as fomenting evil after experiencing the only true peace, agape love, and true forgiveness despite your not meriting any of them based on God paying the entire price to provide them for you despite your and my being devoid of merit? I cannot venture further into your line of declarations until we clear this up.

You know there's a difference between God and "BibleGod", who is a literary character not necessarily accurately portraying a real deity.

If you have a pet mouse, and you let a boa constrictor go into the aquarium, and you sit back and watch the outcome, it is because you wanted the snake to eat the mouse, right? Would it violate the mouse's free-will to not let the snake into it's cage?

Is the boa my pet too? Boas can't starve all because we get the willies over meat eating.

God made herbivores AND carnivores ... and someone has to draw the short straw.

I cannot even think of a bible story your bizarre question would apply to even if you butchered it up in translating it.

Adam and Eve?

The bible allows only two position for individuals with massively different outcomes, there is no neutrality when it comes to God.

"It rains on the good and the evil alike" -- Jesus

No company wants their products be returned yet companies will allow them to be returned because they have economically justifiable reasons to accept the returns. This is the same dynamic God uses in being morally justifiable in letting evil occur.

Bad items are returned because the seller sold bad merchandise. It is the seller's job to fix it. Nothing ticks people off more than stores reselling the crap you just gave back to them (it's happened to me several times).

Your God does not wish to have any responsibility. Not only are there no refunds or returns, but He will burn down your house for even suggesting He ever sold you a dud.

He most certainly is the Father who refused to tell his daughter not to get into the car with that serial killer, and knew the serial killer was going to kill her years in advance, and didn't warn her...this means Dad wanted his daughter to get raped and killed. That is obvious. End of story!

Don't forget poor Jepthah's daughter...

God: ...
Jepthah: Yo, God, I'm a-gonna waste FIRST thing I see if You got my back.
God: Word.
Daughter: Hi, dad!
Jepthah: Uh, God ... uh ...
God: You break it, you buy it, sucker.

Until you do I am going to start ignoring them. I have no idea what so ever stories biblical stories your stories are claimed to represent. I wish I could think of which words out of the 750,000

You've studied the bible a lot and can't come up with any scenes presented in the bible that went with his analogies? Really?

What every great scholar points out is that no one knows whether the book of Job describes literal history or an allegory written by others.

I've heard it was based on an old Sumerian or Babylonian tale.

Whether it was literal or not it was a singular event in which Job suffered with God's permission so as to exhibit the sovereignty, power, and eventual deliverance of God's power over great adversity.

It's about Satan tempting God to smite a guy who didn't deserve it. God took the bait. God ADMITS He is doing this and Job DOESN'T deserve it!

Please take note the perseverance shown even in Job's confusion is completely contradicted by your response to his suffering. he did not curse God when he himself was suffering yet that is what your doing which was the opposite of the message.

Job didn't just take it meekly. He goes on and on about how unjust this is. Have you READ this book? Even Jesus seemed to take themes from it, including Jonah, meaning Jesus was a fan of two stories where our understanding of salvation and morality are really messed up.

It is an archetype of how we should react to either our own suffering or the Churches' suffering through the ages.

By cursing the day we were born? Check. By getting trashed by "friends" who do nothing but wrongly blame you for sins you haven't committed? Check (well, not at the moment, but I've had the speeches in the past).

Thank God they and not you were made a disciple as you would have given up and cursed God the moment you suffered anything and I would have never been saved.

Was Abraham wrong to ask God why He thought wasting two cities was moral?

Was Gideon (I think it was him, anyway) wrong to test God several times before agreeing to fight for Him?

The OTs purpose was to clean up and preserve the moral excellence of the Jewish people as God conduit for revelation. It was a book that demanded moral excellence from his chosen people so that the revelation given to them would have a greater impact than if given to a people that were as corrupt as their neighbors.

Raping young females, killing children and infants, stoning whoever got on your nerves, stealing, etc ... preserves moral excellence? Huh...

and the NT (being meek and mild)

Hard to have an Apocalypse be "meek and mild".

You like the NT more because it did not have to be concerned with attempting to perfect man by force and God's terrible justice and could deal with God's perfect love.

Revelations is all about NOT using force? Huh ...

You need to be more like Thomas Jackson (Stonewall) who zealously believed in both the unpleasant and pleasant without need of an eraser.

Would explain why he fought for the most immoral side, no?

BTW: Everything the devil did to or took from Job was healed or more than replaced by God.

We'll remember that if anything traumatic ever happens to you, kind of like that antigay pastor who said natural disasters are punishing gays and then HIS house is flooded, LOL.

It was to Jobs honor to suffer for God's creation

No it wasn't. It was immoral and God ADMITS it.

Job is in every way better off for his temporary suffering.

Job needs years of therapy for having his God jerk his chain for little else than an insecure deity having to prove something to some random nobody.

After 1,000 years it probably got rather boring, so God put the wolf back in the sheepfold to harass, attack, lead astray, torment, deceive, rape, steal, destroy, and kill.... Obviously God wants it.

My late grandfather has been incredibly upset in Heaven and he's only been there for a year or so.

Eternity sounds nice until you have to live it, LOL.

B) you deny the obvious in front of everyone and it is very clear in that you wont answer simple questions...the simple questions are very accurate to God creating a monster knowing it would harm us and then let it get close to us and do the viscious, cruel, gruesome behavior he knew the monster would do.

You know, the funny thing is, Jesus said that people who cause others, like kids, to sin should have a millstone around their necks. As God invented sin by considering thoughts and actions sins ...

But it's a bit like Jesus saying whoever calls someone a "fool" goes to hell and forgets he called Pharisees fools. Whoops.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

@1robin
Did God create the serpent and let it into a garden knowing in advance it would lead Adam and eve and all of us to death?

If you have a pet mouse, and you let a boa constrictor go into the aquarium, and you sit back and watch the outcome, it is because you wanted the snake to eat the mouse, right? Would it violate the mouse's free-will to not let the snake into it's cage?

He most certainly is the Father who refused to tell his daughter not to get into the car with that serial killer, and knew the serial killer was going to kill her years in advance, and didn't warn her...this means Dad wanted his daughter to get raped and killed. That is obvious. End of story!

You lost the argument. You know your answer, so you can answer the simple yes or no questions and it is completely juvenile that repeatedly you refuse to. You know your answer so simply say it rather than come up with infantile excuses for not

@1robin
Did God create the serpent and let it into a garden knowing in advance it would lead Adam and eve and all of us to death?

Please answer this question:
If you have a pet mouse, and you let a boa constrictor go into the aquarium, and you sit back and watch the outcome, it is because you wanted the snake to eat the mouse, right? Would it violate the mouse's free-will to not let the snake into it's cage?

He most certainly is the Father who refused to tell his daughter not to get into the car with that serial killer, and knew the serial killer was going to kill her years in advance, and didn't warn her...this means Dad wanted his daughter to get raped and killed. That is obvious. End of story!

You lost the argument. You know your answer, so you can answer the simple yes or no questions and it is completely juvenile that repeatedly you refuse to. You know your answer so simply say it rather than come up with infantile excuses for not

Please answer this question: This isn't the same its a helter skeltar move.. Also for example you know the world is filled with other religions thoughts and actions, when I got back I kept seeing those all world religions signs on bumper stickers and everywhere the key word was Tolerance Tolerate, it seemed to be their norm, I was like TOLERATE tolerate what? Yeah I get it there are other religions ideas..Then guess what all that love peace idea starts AND well there are somethings that you wouldn't tolerate even in "cultural norms" ... Helter skelter move is a fake jesus move its like someone calls themselves jesus for reasons that they want something or abuse. Same as all that is holy above i'm "god" sort of thing..Samething in a "prophet" move.. Its classic wolfing and goating thing. Possible revelation of the angel that stands in the sun... Some asking these questions are wise as serpents, even if it pisses you off to find out things like this that you wouldnt be very tolerable of they maybe harmless people. Showing you even hypocrisy. Even those asking can be harmless.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Do you mean you're happy with all man made laws?

Salaam,

No, on the contrary, I only follow them where they coincide with Allaah's Laws or it is expedient to do so

Wassalaam

 

[The_Fisher_King]

What do you mean?

You said: 'Christians do claim to say that god is the "almighty".' I am saying that I am not bound by what Christians say when they say that God is the Almighty. There are many different conceptions of God out there. My conception of God is very different from the Christians' conception (and most Muslims' conceptions too, for that matter).

 

[FearGod]

Salaam,

No, on the contrary, I only follow them where they coincide with Allaah's Laws or it is expedient to do so

Wassalaam

And that what i was saying that we have to obey the laws.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

And that what i was saying that we have to obey the laws.

Salaam,

And I was saying I don't always do so

Wassalaam

 

[FearGod]

Salaam,

And I was saying I don't always do so

Wassalaam

If you were working in a western country and you have to pay taxes for their government, will you
refuse and disobey their laws?

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

Salaam,

No, on the contrary, I only follow them where they coincide with Allaah's Laws or it is expedient to do so

Wassalaam

sounds like you have allat on your plate.

 

[Spiderman]

Please answer this question: This isn't the same its a helter skeltar move.. Also for example you know the world is filled with other religions thoughts and actions, when I got back I kept seeing those all world religions signs on bumper stickers and everywhere the key word was Tolerance Tolerate, it seemed to be their norm, I was like TOLERATE tolerate what? Yeah I get it there are other religions ideas..Then guess what all that love peace idea starts AND well there are somethings that you wouldn't tolerate even in "cultural norms" ... Helter skelter move is a fake jesus move its like someone calls themselves jesus for reasons that they want something or abuse. Same as all that is holy above i'm "god" sort of thing..Samething in a "prophet" move.. Its classic wolfing and goating thing. Possible revelation of the angel that stands in the sun... Some asking these questions are wise as serpents, even if it pisses you off to find out things like this that you wouldnt be very tolerable of they maybe harmless people. Showing you even hypocrisy. Even those asking can be harmless.

Sorry, I'm not sure what the question is

 

[The_Fisher_King]

If you were working in a western country and you have to pay taxes for their government, will you
refuse and disobey their laws?

If I fundamentally disagree and can get away with it..

 

[The_Fisher_King]

sounds like you have allat on your plate.

I believe what I believe.

 

[ukok102nak]

@PopeADope

what makes you thought that your teachings gonna save the soul of many people here in this planet

perhaps we should translate the question so that it is more suitable to answer it
:read:
regarding unto your belief
would you agree that if your not telling what god has really said in the bible
then your a liar
cause your telling a lie even to god
by not saying what he really said
and
atleast perhaps this is what the bible is really meant for ... .
im i right or im i wrong
you could kindly correct us also
for this question were been ask by many eversince humans preach the word of god and since we ask this now
you must know this first that
not so many answered it truthfully


:ty:



godbless
unto all always

 

[Spiderman]

@PopeADope

what makes you thought that your teachings gonna save the soul of many people here in this planet

perhaps we should translate the question so that it is more suitable to answer it
:read:
regarding unto your belief
would you agree that if your not telling what god has really said in the bible
then your a liar
cause your telling a lie even to god
by not saying what he really said
and
atleast perhaps this is what the bible is really meant for ... .
im i right or im i wrong
you could kindly correct us also
for this question were been ask by many eversince humans preach the word of god and since we ask this now
you must know this first that
not so many answered it truthfully


:ty:



godbless
unto all always

I have quoted Scripture and believe it is clear God wants us to suffer agony like Jesus, Job, the prophets, and the Apostles.... He clearly likes it when people suffer and die for him

 

[1robin]

You are being dishonest again. I said many times, God decides what's good, and since he wants Satan to tempt, deceive , confuse,, possess, rape, kill, steal, and destroy , it is a good thing , because God decides what the definition of good is, and everything he does is good, including wanting the Devil to be God of this world.

In that case your entire position is untenable and you have no axe to grind.

However, I don't have to agree with what goes against my conscience. Moses essentially told God his decision to lead Israel out of bondage Into the Wilderness to destroy them, was an asinine idea, and scripture says "God repented." it was very good that Moses was disgusted with some of God's policies.

If what you said above is true then your conscious would be absolutely incorrect when it contradicts God's actions. Your providing that counter argument for your previous claims.

I never admitted what I formerly denied.

It appears you are. You are admitting God's actions are morally justifiable which is exactly what I have been saying. If so then you have no problem which requires no refutation.

However, just because an ancient text says something, doesn't make it true. Your basis for believing it to be all true is entirely based on faith, which means you dont know it is. You simply read a book and came to the conclusion the book was inerrant. So do muslims, and they are willing to die for the lie.

At this point that is irrelevant since you have stated that if they are true then God is doing good. I no longer have to make that point since you admit it. We are not discussing whether the OT is true or not we are discussing whether God makes morally unjustifiable decisions if the OT is true. You have stated he has not made morally unjustifiable actions even if the OT is true.

The answer is yes, God wants some children tortured and murdered , because he tortured and murdered children in the Bible, destined his son to be tortured and murdered, created the Devil (knowing what he would do ) and gave him permission to steal, kill, destroy, and deceive, when he could have easily locked him up.

It is not the issue whether God allows events to occur that we might not like it is whether God is morally unjustified to do so. I have already pointed out that God is morally justifiable in allowing events we do not like to occur and you have agreed with that. I have also pointed out of emotional distaste concerning these events is irrelevant despite the fact it will not vanish just because it is logically inaccurate. Your doing exactly what we are not supposed to do by condemning God based on inaccurate claims stemming from your emotions which contradict logic and revelation.

For you to argue otherwise is to deny the obvious, so, case -closed, God wants evil in our world and the cruel atrocities that it leads to.

I have constantly agreed that God allows things we do not like, but have stated that even the things we do not like are for God morally justifiable which you agreed with. So your just compounding emotional error on emotionally error.

Therefore, God clearly wants enemies because he creates them knowing that they will become his enemies, and since God created all of the Fallen Angels, God is the author of evil too, because he knew the actions of the angels and creatures he made and it was all part of his plan.

God clearly acts in morally justifiable ways which he knows people who will not investigate or will not accept the moral justification for those actions and who will therefore deny God's actions and withhold faith based on unjustifiable emotions.

I am simply being sympathetic in responding since I have already said we have exhausted all arguments concerning this issue and you have already admitted God's moral justification for these events and have went on to contradict what you in other places admit and so the conversation is pointless at this juncture and so I have stated I do not want to continue it. So don't waste your time beating a dead horse because I will not promise to respond to further posts on the subject.

 

[1robin]

You are being dishonest again. I said many times, God decides what's good, and since he wants Satan to tempt, deceive , confuse,, possess, rape, kill, steal, and destroy , it is a good thing , because God decides what the definition of good is, and everything he does is good, including wanting the Devil to be God of this world.

However, I don't have to agree with what goes against my conscience. Moses essentially told God his decision to lead Israel out of bondage Into the Wilderness to destroy them, was an asinine idea, and scripture says "God repented." it was very good that Moses was disgusted with some of God's policies.

I never admitted what I formerly denied.

However, just because an ancient text says something, doesn't make it true. Your basis for believing it to be all true is entirely based on faith, which means you dont know it is. You simply read a book and came to the conclusion the book was inerrant. So do muslims, and they are willing to die for the lie.

The answer is yes, God wants some children tortured and murdered , because he tortured and murdered children in the Bible, destined his son to be tortured and murdered, created the Devil (knowing what he would do ) and gave him permission to steal, kill, destroy, and deceive, when he could have easily locked him up.

For you to argue otherwise is to deny the obvious, so, case -closed, God wants evil in our world and the cruel atrocities that it leads to.

Therefore, God clearly wants enemies because he creates them knowing that they will become his enemies, and since God created all of the Fallen Angels, God is the author of evil too, because he knew the actions of the angels and creatures he made and it was all part of his plan.

I have already said I am done with this issue. You have admitted to what I have been claiming and so the issue is concluded. I also do not respond well to anyone who claims I am lying because even if I was you cannot possibly know I have. To know this you must have access to my motivations, only then can you know if I purposely and with full knowledge stated something I know to be false as if it was true. I know my motivations and therefore know you are incorrect. In the other thread you have also stated I said things I never have. I may make honest mistakes but I do not state anything I know to be wrong as if it is true so I am going to stop responding in this thread because the matter is decided and because of your claims that I am dishonest which you can't know and which I can know, and you are wrong. I will only respond to you in the other thread if you have done as requested and retracted the claims you made about what I said which I have actually never said. If you have not I will point out where I stated you must do so in order for me to carry on with the debate, if you shamefully did not retract your statement the debate will not continue until you do.

 

[1robin]

There is also thanks given to the ignorant, for they are the only people stupid enough to believe what some of them were selling. You should WANT people to be enlightened and "judge the tree by its fruit", but some apostles (we don't have gospels from all 12, after all) apparently want to give you a picture of an orange and tell you they've tasted this banana and it's the best thing they have ever done and if you don't eat this "banana" you will die.

This is one long post. When you shotgun as many claims at me as you have here it is hard to spend enough time on any one claim as to do it justices but I will see what I can do.

I did not really understand what you mean by these fruit metaphors. As for claiming I should want even unbelievers to be enlightened I most certainly do and spend hours writing responses for that very purpose. As to my actual statement here it was not an attempt to give up on anyone it was to simply point out that unbelievers do not have deep understandings of biblical subtleties.

Impressive, since the term wasn't invented until after his death.

I provided no "term" so again I am confused.

God told me humans wrote it and He didn't even do or say a lot of the things in there. Now what?

This is pathetic. Even the bibles critics say the bible is the greatest possible authority on the life of Christ (and he was God).

You know there's a difference between God and "BibleGod", who is a literary character not necessarily accurately portraying a real deity.

Well then by all means point to the revelation by which you know these things. Your mere opinion carries no weight without a corroborating witness such as the bible. It carries far greater validity for NT scholars regardless of what side they are on and which I use to provide a foundation for my own claims.

Is the boa my pet too? Boas can't starve all because we get the willies over meat eating.

God made herbivores AND carnivores ... and someone has to draw the short straw.

I have no idea what your talking about.

Adam and Eve?

I am getting very disappointed and disillusioned as to your credibility at this point.

"It rains on the good and the evil alike" -- Jesus

Good grief!!! The context was not weather but our standing before God.

Bad items are returned because the seller sold bad merchandise. It is the seller's job to fix it. Nothing ticks people off more than stores reselling the crap you just gave back to them (it's happened to me several times).

That has nothing to do with the context my allegory was made in. It is not even true many times. I would bet that more than 50% of the items Wal-Mart takes back performed exactly as the manufacturers claim yet Wal-Mart will take them all back. Not that this has any bearing on what I stated which was an analogy to show the difference between what God desires and what he allows. I sure hope you post contains an relevant response to what I have stated.

Your God does not wish to have any responsibility. Not only are there no refunds or returns, but He will burn down your house for even suggesting He ever sold you a dud.

All right this has become meaningless. I respectfully decline to respond to the irrelevant and sensationalistic opinions you may have which are not accompanied by any reason to believe them nor related to what you responded to. Sorry but I work in a classified lab and my time should be spent wisely and not be wasted on irrational claims. I can not determine whether you are right or wrong because I cannot figure what your talking about, nor why I should believe it even if I could.