Is it true the Kabbha was a Hindu temple?

[K.Venugopal]

You are still seeking and you are debating, its quite funny that you are offereing something which you yourself are seeking, you are offering somethng which you dont have.

Dear Nawab, Odion says he is a seeker - you say you are a believer. You seem to say that as believer, you have come to the end of the journey. Odion is more modest. He does not claim to have come to the end of the journey. As a believer, don't you want to finally meet Him on whom you've placed so much faith? If so, you are also a seeker till you meet Him. Don't you think so?

 

[Breathe]

OK Dear Odion, Tell me how is the Devil controlling Iran and Saudi Arabia just because they do not recoignize western supremecy so they are led by the devil thats very nice,

You offered no proof of yours, I offered no proof of mine. I don't believe that, but it's easy to claim things. I could say "Tell me how is the Devil controlling the US just because they do not recognise Islam as the one true religio nthey are led by the devil that's very nice".

See? It doesn't work. It's just hearsay and unprovable, and at least within the US you don't get killed for changing your religion. :covereyes:

i had told you that i am a straight forward person i dont go around and around the bush trying to manipulate people with words that absoluetly mean nothing well i beleive in a formula that dont use seven words when you can use four,

Yes you do - you claim that America is led by the devil. You can't prove it.

Allah = God Almighty, God Almighty in arabic is called Allah, We muslims like to call God almighty Allah

I know that. I am a linguistics major. I meant, prove Allah as in the Qur'anic deity, exists. Not as in God. I believe in God, just not the Muslim version.

just like the Christians would call Jesus (Jesus) but Jesus never heard anyone calling him Jesus did he, they must have called him Isau or Yesheua

Yeshua or Isha/Isho (Aramaic dialect), yes. And..?

if you are a beleiver in God, then i dont have to prove his exsistence. If you want to disprove Prophet Muhammad SAWS claim you find one mistake from the quran and you have done it,

There's the semen from between the ribs (although you will probably use the location of the testes as embryos as proof), and this:

Surah an-Nisa (ch. 4) verse 48 and 116, versus surah an-Nisa verse 153 yet, Surah an-Anaam (ch. 6) verse 76 to 78..
Maryam (ch. 19) verse 27-28 are at odds with historicity. What do you make of these?

You are still seeking and you are debating, its quite funny that you are offereing something which you yourself are seeking, you are offering somethng which you dont have.

Oh, but my dear Nawab, that is simply because

1. I don't have to accept errors, contradictions, threats, insults, things which do not make sense, or stupidity
2. I don't accept blind faith
3. I don't accept a concept of eternal punishment
4. I debate because if I didn't, I'd be a fool. If these is an afterlife, it's worth searching for
5. People are the best proof of the religion. Jesus said, "by their fruits shall you know them".

Although, I understand what you are coming from. I do not have proof, no, because I am a seeker. Are you going to disprove spiritual searches, as you said?

 

[Breathe]

Dear Nawab, Odion says he is a seeker - you say you are a believer. You seem to say that as believer, you have come to the end of the journey. Odion is more modest. He does not claim to have come to the end of the journey. As a believer, don't you want to finally meet Him on whom you've placed so much faith? If so, you are also a seeker till you meet Him. Don't you think so?

Yes!
Thank you!

 

[Gharib]

Dear Nawab, Odion says he is a seeker - you say you are a believer. You seem to say that as believer, you have come to the end of the journey. Odion is more modest. He does not claim to have come to the end of the journey. As a believer, don't you want to finally meet Him on whom you've placed so much faith? If so, you are also a seeker till you meet Him. Don't you think so?

i think that you may have missunderstood his post.
what he has meant is that he has stopped seeking, meaning that he has found the religion, but not god, everyone is seeking for god thats why there are many religions. i too have stopped seeking because i have a religion, but i am seeking for god. a higher level in religion. one could say
first step is the religion then the second is seeking for god, and we may not really meet or see him untill judgment day and beyond

 

[Gharib]

There's the semen from between the ribs (although you will probably use the location of the testes as embryos as proof), and this:

Surah an-Nisa (ch. 4) verse 48 and 116, versus surah an-Nisa verse 153 yet, Surah an-Anaam (ch. 6) verse 76 to 78..
Maryam (ch. 19) verse 27-28 are at odds with historicity. What do you make of these?

are you looking for a better understanding of those verses or that why this is said in this and why this in that

 

[Don Penguinoini]

i think that you may have missunderstood his post.
what he has meant is that he has stopped seeking, meaning that he has found the religion, but not god, everyone is seeking for god thats why there are many religions. i too have stopped seeking because i have a religion, but i am seeking for god. a higher level in religion. one could say
first step is the religion then the second is seeking for god, and we may not really meet or see him untill judgment day and beyond

We never stop seeking

 

[Gharib]

We never stop seeking

so for what religion are you looking for?

 

[GURSIKH]

dear lava wrote -The statement of "seven heavens" is repeated seven times. "

kindly forgive my ignorance ,

is there any difference bw these seven heavens ?

i meant, is there any ranking of these heavens or all are same ?


love

 

[Breathe]

are you looking for a better understanding of those verses or that why this is said in this and why this in that

Both. Nawab asked me to find mistakes in the Qur'an, and I offered some things which can be seen as mistakes. Asking for him to explain why these are not mistakes, and how they are understood within the ummah and how a Muslim sees them. So, a bit of both. I debate to learn.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

so for what religion are you looking for?

Seeking does not neccasarily equate looking for the right religion. Life in general, we can never stop seeking. Seeking things to be right is what drives us to do things in life.

 

[Gharib]

Seeking does not neccasarily equate looking for the right religion. Life in general, we can never stop seeking. Seeking things to be right is what drives us to do things in life.

so were you agreeing with me in your previous post or not? i don't get it.
i thought you were against me (dissagreeing with me).

 

[Gharib]

There's the semen from between the ribs (although you will probably use the location of the testes as embryos as proof), and this:

Surah an-Nisa (ch. 4) verse 48 and 116, versus surah an-Nisa verse 153 yet, Surah an-Anaam (ch. 6) verse 76 to 78..
Maryam (ch. 19) verse 27-28 are at odds with historicity. What do you make of these?

ok heres my explanation of 4:48
Allah says that he would not forgive anyone who makes partners to him.
so if a human makes something equal to Allah he will be punished for it in hell, but if that person repents it and converts to islam then Allah may forgive him about it or he may not, Allah knows the real reason why that person associated partners to him, so if one does it unintetionally (ie. they are following the religion of their parents or they havn't really heard much about islam, etc..) but if they say that Allah has partners or say that Allah doesn't exist just because they feel like it just to provoke or make fun of us muslims then Allah may not forgive him for it (they may have some punishment for it even if they enter heaven). Allah may forgive all others about their sins but associating partners to Allah is a very very big sin in islam (Allah says it himself).

4:116
again this verse is very simmilar to the one above, but has mentioned that who ever makes partners to Allah he has lost his way from reality or from the truth. (truth and reality can mainly be noticed in our environment or our sorroundings ie. nature, the universe, etc. meaning that these are good arguments which prove to us that Allah exist example: who makes the rain fall from the sky, who makes the day into night and vise versa, etc.)

4:153
this is the verse that i mentioned some time ago i think about how Allah took the lives of the people of prophet Musa (as) because they asked to see Allah otherwise they would not believe him. they had witnessed many other miracles from Allah and they still refused to accept him, so he (Allah) took their lives for some time and returned them back to life (they also witnessed the monkey bussines, the oppening of the sea so they could walk through it, etc..). but still even after this they worshiped the cow carved from gold and so fo them there is nor forgiveness because they not only witnessed the power of Allah and his miracles but they also turned to the cow as a god, making it a partner to Allah.

6:76:77:78
these verse speak about prophet Ibraheem (as).
as he was becoming more mature he knew that what his family were worshiping were wrong, so he wanted to discover the true god. first he though that the sun was god, then the moon then the star. but they all left him (changed form day to night and vise versa) so he only had them for part of the day. so then he said that i do not wish to worship a god that leaves me.
then after realising that the sun, moon and stars weren't Allah, he said i to his people "i am clean of what you associate to Allah" meaning that he didn't worship the idols like the others and turned to the right way.

19:27:28
these verse reffer to Isa's (as) mother.
after she had the child she went to her family (tribe) and they said to her that you have commited a very embarrasing/bad thing (doing the thing without getting married). they said this to her "o sister of Harun, you father wasn't an immoral person (corrupt, ruined (as in a bad person who commited sin)), nor was you mother an immoral ( have a child whiout being married).
they were accusing the mother of Isa (as) of having a child without being married (being touched by a man who was not her husband).
as she went there with Isa (as) in her chest (arms) and after they said the things to her Allah made Isa (as) talk while an infant (maybe a couple of days old) and he (isa (as)) said "i am a slave of Allah and to me he will give (has promissed to give) me the title of prophethood and the book"

does this help or is it confusing i think i may have gotten of the expalnation part, forgive me for that.
and if other muslims have something to add please do so i would appreciate it.

 

[nawab]

You require proof i will give you accoring to Televangleist Ravern Jimmy Swaggert

Alcoholism, Homosexuality, Gambling, Pornography, Incest, these sins have reached epidemic proportion, in a country of 2/3 of born again Christians and still this is what they have come up with , obviously i will say that the country is being led by the devil. we can say everyday there is a new church sex scandle. please compare the crime rates of America against Iran and Saudi Arabia


Well, it is also mention in the bible that you cannot change your religion, they should certainly be put to death Leviticus 24:16. just because the Christians do not follow the bible doesnt mean that the law is not there i beleive i had proved that America is led by the devil.

you tell me what is different of God Almighty in different religions whats the thing you cant understand. if you can understand a smoking and a hissing God, you can understand a God who is a barber who shaves peoples hair, who demands blood for himself, what dont you understand about the God as mentioned in the Quran tell me,

the Quranic verses you mentioned are already corrected and explained by Brother Eslam,

i too do not accept contradictions, Mistakes, things do not make sense and stupidity but please if these things are mentioned in the quran let me know, lets prove it wrong.

regarding insults and threats, well the person who is going to give me that he better dont do it in person, because hes going to get what he deserves.

Why cant there be a heaven and hell concept, the bIble says God is a jealous God and he wont forgive those who take gods beside him whats so difficult, if I am a king and you do not accept me as your king and you born in my kingdom and you do not accept me as your king why then should i look out for you.

So please keep searching you will always be searching and will never find it because Jesus said Matthew 13:13 Hearing they hear not, seeing they see not, neither will they return to the true path (will they understand)

I do not say that spiritual searches are wrong but i believe that a person who is searching is inferior to a person who has found the truth, like Cat Stevens when he has found the truth i listen to his expirence not when he was searching for the truth it means nothing because he hasnt got it in him at that time so when you find it then will you be up to my level to talk because for you it is easy to say that i am not done yet i still have alot to search about me no, i have 100% found the truth and do not need to search anything else to be convinced.

Regarding meeting with God almighty that is only a question of time not will i meet him or not, this is 100% certain maybe for you it might be an adventure but that day i will meet him you will also be there to meet him we all will meet him on that day.

You offered no proof of yours, I offered no proof of mine. I don't believe that, but it's easy to claim things. I could say "Tell me how is the Devil controlling the US just because they do not recognise Islam as the one true religio nthey are led by the devil that's very nice".

See? It doesn't work. It's just hearsay and unprovable, and at least within the US you don't get killed for changing your religion. :covereyes:


Yes you do - you claim that America is led by the devil. You can't prove it.


I know that. I am a linguistics major. I meant, prove Allah as in the Qur'anic deity, exists. Not as in God. I believe in God, just not the Muslim version.


Yeshua or Isha/Isho (Aramaic dialect), yes. And..?


There's the semen from between the ribs (although you will probably use the location of the testes as embryos as proof), and this:

Surah an-Nisa (ch. 4) verse 48 and 116, versus surah an-Nisa verse 153 yet, Surah an-Anaam (ch. 6) verse 76 to 78..
Maryam (ch. 19) verse 27-28 are at odds with historicity. What do you make of these?


Oh, but my dear Nawab, that is simply because

1. I don't have to accept errors, contradictions, threats, insults, things which do not make sense, or stupidity
2. I don't accept blind faith
3. I don't accept a concept of eternal punishment
4. I debate because if I didn't, I'd be a fool. If these is an afterlife, it's worth searching for
5. People are the best proof of the religion. Jesus said, "by their fruits shall you know them".

Although, I understand what you are coming from. I do not have proof, no, because I am a seeker. Are you going to disprove spiritual searches, as you said?

 

[Breathe]

Eselam, thank you for your understanding of it. I was, however, comparing them with one another, but thanks for your explanation of them.

However, with the Surah Maryam, where it says "O sister of Harun", what does this mean? Mary was not a sister of Aaron (Harun), but this looks a bit like confusion of the Qur'an, because there is a Miriam in the Bible who is the sister of Aaron, but Mary the mother of Jesus comes a lot later, and is not. What is your opinion on this? Have I got this wrong?

 

[Breathe]

You require proof i will give you accoring to Televangleist Ravern Jimmy Swaggert

Alcoholism, Homosexuality, Gambling, Pornography, Incest, these sins have reached epidemic proportion, in a country of 2/3 of born again Christians and still this is what they have come up with , obviously i will say that the country is being led by the devil.

Or, people are Christian in name only. However, Riyadh has a thriving gay community despite it being forbidden within Islam, according to google trends last year, Like, three or four Muslim countries were top ten for searching for "sex". I suppose this is what happens because of being deprived of even seeing a woman's face.

we can say everyday there is a new church sex scandle.

That's interesting. I don't believe that, though. Unless you can show me a church sex scandal reported every day for the last year at a minimum, you've once again said something you offer no proof of.

please compare the crime rates of America against Iran and Saudi Arabia

Oppressive reigemes are good at keeping people down, but shari'a is an ineffective way of controlling people because you need a group of people to actually do anything, therefore, you don't know how safe they are. People tried to buy my wife's friend when she was a young girl, and you hear of horror stories of people being attempted raped within Islamic countries.

Well, it is also mention in the bible that you cannot change your religion, they should certainly be put to death Leviticus 24:16. just because the Christians do not follow the bible doesnt mean that the law is not there

Naw, it means they grew out of it, and Jesus forbid the death penalty, after all. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and all that.

i beleive i had proved that America is led by the devil.

I believe, you've proved your ignorance on the matters. Nothing personal.

you tell me what is different of God Almighty in different religions whats the thing you cant understand. if you can understand a smoking and a hissing God, you can understand a God who is a barber who shaves peoples hair, who demands blood for himself, what dont you understand about the God as mentioned in the Quran tell me,

God within Islam is not a nice person. I don't understand why he would send you to hell for not believing, a game of Russian roulette in the belief system. A God who would torture people, and one who would play such a sick game with his followers, is not worthy of praise, but of contempt. Thankfully, there is no such thing as Hell. If one reads into the God of the Muslims, he seems more like an asura than a God.

the Quranic verses you mentioned are already corrected and explained by Brother Eslam,

Cool.

i too do not accept contradictions, Mistakes, things do not make sense and stupidity but please if these things are mentioned in the quran let me know, lets prove it wrong.

Ask some more scientific members. Suraj has some very good arguments.

What about the semen between a man's ribs, though? Like I asked.

regarding insults and threats, well the person who is going to give me that he better dont do it in person, because hes going to get what he deserves.

See? Proof Islam is not of God with such violence.

Why cant there be a heaven and hell concept, the bIble says God is a jealous God and he wont forgive those who take gods beside him whats so difficult, if I am a king and you do not accept me as your king and you born in my kingdom and you do not accept me as your king why then should i look out for you.

Jealous angry Gods = Asuras, imo.
Well, you have no need to look out for me, but why should you torture me other than if you're an evil sadist?

So please keep searching you will always be searching and will never find it

What a charming young fellow you are. Obviously your rudeness is proof of the truth of Islam. :sleep:

because Jesus said Matthew 13:13 Hearing they hear not, seeing they see not, neither will they return to the true path (will they understand)

Actually, I hear not for the most part.

I do not say that spiritual searches are wrong but i believe that a person who is searching is inferior to a person who has found the truth,

Oh, you are in no way superior to me. I am not a bigot, hateful, deceitful and coming on this website to insult other religion's followers.

like Cat Stevens when he has found the truth i listen to his expirence not when he was searching for the truth it means nothing because he hasnt got it in him at that time so when you find it then will you be up to my level to talk

Sorry, I'd have to go down to your level, because you resort to insults and personal attacks.

because for you it is easy to say that i am not done yet i still have alot to search

At least I'm honest, eh?

about me no, i have 100% found the truth and do not need to search anything else to be convinced.

Ah, blind faith is lovely isn't it?
Tell me, were you born Muslim?

meeting with God almighty that is only a question of time not will i meet him or not, this is 100% certain maybe for you it might be an adventure but that day i will meet him you will also be there to meet him we all will meet him on that day.

I'll see you on judgement day, I guess. If it turns out you're right and I go to hell, I guess, well, I can forgive Allah. :kissbette

 

[nawab]

let me answer your first question regarding the sister of Harun (it basically means descendant of Harun) in the arabic language

back to our discussion now

I gave you a reference from a Christian Preacher himelf not my own speach or from google chat rooms and stuff i am talking about facts have you been to Riyadh, i have lived in Riyadh ok, there are no gay comunities in our lands, its the westerners who are too gay to convert everyone to gayism spreading these kind of nonsense, give me a solid proof, right Google trends that helps alot.

Dude everyday in the morning there is always an add Christian preacher caught, check all these teleevangleists are getting caught, because they want to pass the burden to someone else to live there own lives in thier own ways, so Jesus becomes a scapegoat. do your research about these church sex scandals and you will know. fortunatly these sicknesses has not been passed on to us yet. preachers molesting little kids can you beleive that i mean on the news.

Yes you are right God is not a person, if you think that God mentioned in the quran is not nice you must have not read the bible yet. because your God is created according to your own needs your God is a created version. to suit yourselves.

Well islam gives me permission to take care of myself when Hittler attacked the UK, the UK government didnt follow Christianity they followed Islam, Jesus told them to turn the other cheek but the british fought back this is Islam. similarily someone who is insulting me i have a right to watch out for myself. our people know what self respect is, we fortunatly are not dosile we still have some retaliating power in us.

so the day you find the truth i will organize a party on my expense that Odion has finally found the truth. a person debate theology who hasnt even complete his basic training yet. of course you dont hear thats why Jesus told you that.

Yes i was born a Muslim, but i am from a family whose ancesters were famous Hindus not only Hindus but famous Hindus like Rao Jodha Rathore and Mahrajah Rao Partap Singh, and my great grand father converted to Islam till today we have Hindu relatives we just dont inter marry but we still treat them and they treat us as relatives. well i am not blind you are blind you have not found because you dont see and you dont hear.

This will happen exactly as you say but at that time i am too scared to think of the expression that will be on your face,

 

[Gharib]

Eselam, thank you for your understanding of it. I was, however, comparing them with one another, but thanks for your explanation of them.

However, with the Surah Maryam, where it says "O sister of Harun", what does this mean? Mary was not a sister of Aaron (Harun), but this looks a bit like confusion of the Qur'an, because there is a Miriam in the Bible who is the sister of Aaron, but Mary the mother of Jesus comes a lot later, and is not. What is your opinion on this? Have I got this wrong?

well i think that nawab has answered this which is correct. she is not the direct sister of Harun but instead a descendant tracing back to him. but it is refferd to as "sister of Harun" to show a close connection rather than a far one.

 

[Breathe]

let me answer your first question regarding the sister of Harun (it basically means descendant of Harun) in the arabic language

back to our discussion now

Okay, thanks for this.

I gave you a reference from a Christian Preacher himelf not my own speach or from google chat rooms and stuff i am talking about facts

Fact: Riyadh has a gay community.
The Kingdom in the Closet - The Atlantic (May 2007)

have you been to Riyadh, i have lived in Riyadh ok,

Ugh, no. I wouldn't go there if you paid me.

there are no gay comunities in our lands, its the westerners who are too gay to convert everyone to gayism

:biglaugh: Do you realize how silly you sound?

spreading these kind of nonsense, give me a solid proof, right Google trends that helps alot.

Fact: One of my Muslim friends (from Egypt) is gay. As gay as they come. Very very very gay.

Dude everyday in the morning there is always an add Christian preacher caught, check all these teleevangleists are getting caught, because they want to pass the burden to someone else to live there own lives in thier own ways, so Jesus becomes a scapegoat.

Yes, Jesus is used as a scapegoat. But no, you offer no proof.

do your research about these church sex scandals and you will know. fortunatly these sicknesses has not been passed on to us yet.

It's not every day, which proves you're being deceitful. I live in a land where I hear about such things. It doesn't mean it's right. I disagree with it.

preachers molesting little kids can you beleive that i mean on the news.

You have Muhammad, though. In modern societies, marrying nine year old girls is considered child molestation. Pot, meet kettle.

Yes you are right God is not a person, if you think that God mentioned in the quran is not nice you must have not read the bible yet. because your God is created according to your own needs your God is a created version. to suit yourselves.

I have read the Bible. And it's not "my God". I am not a Christian, nor am I a Jew. It is not 'my God'.

Well islam gives me permission to take care of myself when Hittler attacked the UK, the UK government didnt follow Christianity they followed Islam, Jesus told them to turn the other cheek but the british fought back this is Islam.

It's called self-defence. But I understand what you are saying.

similarily someone who is insulting me i have a right to watch out for myself. our people know what self respect is, we fortunatly are not dosile we still have some retaliating power in us.

How intelligent of you; if someone says something you don't like, attack them.

so the day you find the truth i will organize a party on my expense that Odion has finally found the truth. a person debate theology who hasnt even complete his basic training yet.

I've done far more searching than you. It's because I've searched why I haven't found. Because I've found things I cannot trust in each religion.

of course you dont hear thats why Jesus told you that.

No, I don't hear, literally, because I have hearing problems. It would be nice if you got your facts right. I have read the Qur'an, and I'm not convinced. In fact, I'm less than convinced. Thankfully I have good Muslims such as you, Nawab, to teach me the true colours of Islam. This has helped me in my spiritual search.

Yes i was born a Muslim, but i am from a family whose ancesters were famous Hindus not only Hindus but famous Hindus like Rao Jodha Rathore and Mahrajah Rao Partap Singh, and my great grand father converted to Islam till today we have Hindu relatives we just dont inter marry but we still treat them and they treat us as relatives.

Ah, clever. You call me ignorant but you haven't left the religion you have been brought up in. I've seen your thinly veiled attacks on other religions.

well i am not blind you are blind you have not found because you dont see and you dont hear.

No, I see very well. I have not found because I have not found ultimate truth. I know that it is not within Islam.

This will happen exactly as you say but at that time i am too scared to think of the expression that will be on your face,

Naw, it won't happen. It'll be interesting to see your face when you are not rewarded with houri. :blowkiss:

 

[Don Penguinoini]

You require proof i will give you accoring to Televangleist Ravern Jimmy Swaggert

Homosexuality, Gambling, Pornography

Step into the 21st century, Nawab. These are not considered sins.

 

[Breathe]

Step into the 21st century, Nawab. These are not considered sins.

Ownage.