Is it wrong if you want to know a partners or potential partner's biological/original gender?

[vtunie]

Was Tom wrong to reject Shirley on the basis that she is transsexual? NO. The heart does what it does. But there are both kind and unkind ways of rejection; to flee as he did is unkind, and he should have waited and used a pretext.

Should Shirley be obligated to tell Tom her birth sex before consent? NO. It is irrelevant to her current life unless she feels it is.

Is it wrong for people who live in accordance with their sex at birth not to desire trans-sexuals? NO. See 1. BUT: How are they to know, unless someone tells them? Conclusion: the truth may set you free, but freedom is not always kind. Charity and wisdom may require certain thing to pass into oblivion.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Maybe Tom should of told Shirley that he was transphobic, how selfish of him to not be honest with her. She probably would not have consented if she knew that.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

That would be a very valid concern were it reasonable to assume that being 'transphobic' might be a relevant factor in her decision, which seems unlikely to be an issue of consideration for many people (while they may think poorly of him, it is unlikely to be a factor that would play any role in the decision whether or not to have sex with him for most people) and thus not a reasonable assumption that it might be of import enough to mention it (indeed, merely bringing it up would appear to be very strange under most circumstances and might perhaps be taken to indicate that he believes any potential partner was themselves transgender, and it was mentioned as if to test the waters or something similar).

The same cannot be said for her own situation.

 

[Koldo]

I don't think that in the OP scenario it is the transsexual woman who is being a jerk. The guy wanted to sleep with her and she slept with him. What could be kinder and more generous?

That is absolutely hilarious.
Now you mean to say the transsexual was actually doing him a favour.

 

[Koldo]

Ok, then in your view, what is he responsible for in this scenario, if anything? Whose job is it to deal with his particular hangups about gender?

He is responsible for his choice of sleeping with her.
The issue is not about whether he is responsible for anything, but rather whether she has a considerable share of responsibility.

 

[Koldo]

I already did. Look at post 111.

Givew you are using the same quote in the other topic, i am going to reply to this in the other topic.

A few.

Lies.

She slept with someone who later turned out to be homophobic.

What makes him an homophobic?

So?

So it was reasonable for him to assume she was not a trans woman.

No.

Yes, it is.

He gave his consent to have sex with her, as he saw her and interacted with her. He saw what he saw. She's not responsible for disclosing everything about her medical history that has no medical effect on him, just like he isn't.

It is not your place to tell what what he consented on.
Given his reaction, it is clear he didn't consent to have sex with a trans woman.

There are trans people. Assuming people that you want to sleep with are not trans is not smart if you have a major hang up about trans people. It's a non-issue in reality, but if a person makes it into an issue, then those are their issues to work out for themselves.

Playing the odds, it would be a mathematically reasonable statement to guess that a woman has XX chromosomes and a man has XY chromosomes, but if the person is gonna freak out if he's wrong, then he's got to take responsibility for his boundaries and ask his partners to make sure that none of his hang-ups will be triggered. He's a man, not a child, right?

The point is not whether it is smart, it is about whether it is reasonable.
She is not a child either, so she should have developed enough empathy to put herself into his shoes.

I could say the same thing about how he inappropriately interacted about her, freaking out about her trans status.

So?

All she did was agree to have sex with him. They had an enjoyable time, and there is no physical harm at all. He can play the victim card all he wants, but she didn't harm him.

So, whether it is right or wrong relies solely on the basis of harm?

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

That would be a very valid concern were it reasonable to assume that being 'transphobic' might be a relevant factor in her decision, which seems unlikely to be an issue of consideration for many people (while they may think poorly of him, it is unlikely to be a factor that would play any role in the decision whether or not to have sex with him for most people) and thus not a reasonable assumption that it might be of import enough to mention it (indeed, merely bringing it up would appear to be very strange under most circumstances and might perhaps be taken to indicate that he believes any potential partner was themselves transgender, and it was mentioned as if to test the waters or something similar).

The same cannot be said for her own situation.

That is only if we assume most people would have a problem with a transwoman they are attracted to.

 

[Alceste]

That is absolutely hilarious.
Now you mean to say the transsexual was actually doing him a favour.

Um, yes. When people have consensual sex, they are doing each other a favour. Or at least, they should be.

 

[Alceste]

He is responsible for his choice of sleeping with her.
The issue is not about whether he is responsible for anything, but rather whether she has a considerable share of responsibility.

Sure, she should probably be careful not to bang transphobic people who have anger management issues, and he should be more careful not to bang transsexuals. That way neither of them would end up with any regrets.

 

[Alceste]

That is only if we assume most people would have a problem with a transwoman they are attracted to.

That's what I don't get. A post-op MTF is a woman. What is the big deal here? Are we banging individual people we are attracted to, or "biological men"?

 

[vtunie]

Talk less! Shirley found out this lesson the hard way.

Love more! Tom may yet have to learn this, easily or the hard way as the case may be.

 

[Koldo]

Um, yes. When people have consensual sex, they are doing each other a favour. Or at least, they should be.

Considering they were on equal grounds, how does that excuse her from being a jerk? Does a kind act excuse an inconsiderate act?

 

[Koldo]

Talk less! Shirley found out this lesson the hard way.

Love more! Tom may yet have to learn this, easily or the hard way as the case may be.

That is highly unlikely to happen to him again.
Let the dices roll!

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

That's what I don't get. A post-op MTF is a woman. What is the big deal here? Are we banging individual people we are attracted to, or "biological men"?

I agree if you are attracted to the person, what harm is done? Some people are not comfortable enough with themselves, they are afraid of being homosexual I think that is the issue, the "but I am not gay!!!" issue.

 

[Koldo]

Sure, she should probably be careful not to bang transphobic people who have anger management issues, and he should be more careful not to bang transsexuals. That way neither of them would end up with any regrets.

Because he is obviously transphobic...

 

[Koldo]

That's what I don't get. A post-op MTF is a woman. What is the big deal here? Are we banging individual people we are attracted to, or "biological men"?

Not to everyone. Period.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Not to everyone. Period.

oh well too late Tom! Nothing you can do about it, apart from getting over your gay anxiety

 

[Koldo]

oh well too late Tom! Nothing you can do about it, apart from getting over your gay anxiety

Gay anxiety? :sarcastic

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Gay anxiety? :sarcastic

read my post above that

 

[Koldo]

read my post above that

What makes you think Tom has gay anxiety?