Is it wrong to advocate homosexuality as a sin?

[averageJOE]

And I would say that you have mixed up love with sex, and may confuse the children you and a man ---or maybe 3 different men (apart from your "significant other") decided to procreate (in whole or in part).

Sex has nothing to do with love, but has everything to do with procreation.

If you don't think love enhances sex and sex enhances love then you are going to be in a very boring and unhealthy marriage.

If you don't understand that, how could you possibly teach that to your children? How can you teach you children not to resent men or that they need to respect men? How can you present responsible sex? How can you teach a daughter not to be anymore afraid of men than she is of women or visa versa ----- a boy meeting a woman? How can you say to your children, 'I love you all just as much if not more than I love my significant other,' yet need no sexual relationship with you? See the dilemma?

My mother-in-law is a lesbian. She taught all these things to my wife, very well I might add. My wife was raised by her lesbian mother and her life partner. Do you really believe she tried to raise her daughters to be lesbians? Do you think she was heart broken, crushed, and dissapointed when they grew up to be heterosexual? Maybe you should ask all those questions, in person, to a gay couple who already successfully raised children into adults.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Sex has nothing to do with love, but has everything to do with procreation. If you don't understand that, how could you possibly teach that to your children? How can you teach you children not to resent men or that they need to respect men? How can you present responsible sex? How can you teach a daughter not to be anymore afraid of men than she is of women or visa versa ----- a boy meeting a woman? How can you say to your children, 'I love you all just as much if not more than I love my significant other,' yet need no sexual relationship with you? See the dilemma?

I see no dilemma. Two parents of the same sex, or just one parent. The questions are interchangeable in two separate situations. And to answer the questions, you go about the same way any other parent would. Teach your kids that abstinance is the only 100% effective way to prevent pregnancy and the spread of STDs, but condoms and other forms of birth control do very well, and that they should use them if they do have sex. A child is also going to have so much interaction with the oposite sex, I see no reason why a little girl would be afraid of a man automatically. There are some circumstances that will cause it, but they are usually extreme. And telling a boy how to meet a woman.....who better than two woman could tell a boy how to get a girl to notice him?

You are going to do what ever you wish. Don't listen to Natural or Biblical logic.

Honestly, I could care less about Biblical logic. However, I know damn well what nature is telling me.

 

[Duck]

This turn out to be an interesting thread, but if kept on topic is has already been answeredby the OP. “Now, to be clear, I am not questioning the right to spread this nonsense. I understand freedom of expression and its importance. But just because something is lawful that does not mean it is right” I like that one, what we talking about here is about rights and religious people have a right to define what sin is in their Church and they have the right to exclude from their ranks anybody that obstinately transgress their tenet, most gays and lesbians hate religion with a passion and get on these tits for tats with the church, their favorite debating strategy is play the victim, they don’t mention their constant slanderous attacks of religions that do not accept them as members, they want to force us to change our moral and ethic standards, to destroy the Church a model of righteous living, there are those that gave in and that would be OK if they don’t used the name of Christianity, marriage or allege right to force and infiltrate the Church
The right to excommunicate is an immediate and necessary consequence of the fact that the Church is a society. Every society has the right to exclude and deprive of their rights and social advantages its unworthy or grievously culpable members, either temporarily or permanently. This right is necessary to every society in order that it may be well administered and survive. The fundamental proof, therefore, of the Church's right to excommunicate is based on her status as a spiritual society, whose members, governed by legitimate authority, seek one and the same end through suitable means. Members who, by their obstinate disobedience, reject the means of attaining this common end deserve to be removed from such a society.

Yes, religions have the right to define what is sinful within the context of that religion. The problem is that religions won't leave it at that. On the whole, particularly in the US, a very obnoxious and outspoken religious sect has taken hold of a major political party and feels that it is necessary to enforce on secular society (as in not their church) what that particular religious sect feels is moral. I personally don't care what any particular religion feels is sinful or not (other than mine). If you belong to a religion and that religion feels that eating chicken is sinful, then it is up to you and you alone to avoid eating chicken; it is not your place, nor is it your religion's place, to attempt to enact secular laws outlawing the eating of chicken. Similarly, I don't care really what your (as in not mine) religion says about homosexuality or same sex marriage, or same sex parenting, I do care however, when your (again as in not mine) religion calls on its members to enact secular laws attempting to outlaw those things based on what is "moral" within the context of that religion. If your religion feels that behavior is inappropriate, sinful, evil, whatever, fine, as a member of your religion, you have every right to NOT be involved in a homosexual relationship, or a same sex marriage, or to raise children with a member of the same sex. However, as I don't tell you what is appropriate behavior for you based on my religion, I expect the same courtesy from you.

So, to the OP is it wrong to advocate homosexuality as sinful? That question is entirely based on a particular religion. I feel (personally) that it is wrong, and within the rather vague guidance of my religion, advocating such is indeed sinful.

 

[Duck]

They would not contemplate marrige to the same sex. They would not have sex with the same sex. And they would understand that the main purpose for marriage is so couples could join in a sexual experience to have children and raise them together as a Father and Mother ---- Husban and Wife environment.

You are going to do what ever you wish. Don't listen to Natural or Biblical logic.

So, since marriage is purposed to have and raise children in a heterosexual environment, what would be the limit on the length of marriage? Men are, generally speaking, capable of creating babies at a much later age than women, so since the purpose of marriage is to make babies, how long after menopause should the marriage be dissolved? Should the marriage be valid until the last child reaches its majority, or should the marriage be dissolved as soon as the woman enters menopause, so that the man can then remarry to "join in a sexual experience to have children" with a fertile female? Should the children from the previous marriage remain with the father, or should they remain with the mother, or should they be shuffled off to an orphanage or adoption agency since their biologic father and biologic mother are no longer capable of producing children?

What about couples that decide to wait to have children? Should there be a limit on how long prior to having children married couples are allowed to wait? I know...let's make it a law that if a couple marries, they must produce a child (the old fashioned way by coitus) within 3 years or the marriage will be annulled (this so that the couple is not committing adultery when they remarry someone else). I say that they have to have the child the "old fashioned way" to protect the couple from committing the sin of fornication only of course.

 

[shadze]

Originally Posted by Amhairghine
The person speaking for God never defined "vile passions." You can use your imagination in that case. I am strictly heterosexual and married to the same woman for 42 years. However, I am not so arrogant as to judge sexual acts that do not appeal to me. Some humans are attracted to the same sex. I don't think they choose to be attracted to the same sex. Dogs perform homosexual humping. Bonobos (related to Chimps) frequently practice homosexual behaviour as a social bonding ritual. Putting Biblical and Qur'anic superstition aside, all I can say is that homosexuality is non-reproductive and would not be an advantage in a group of animals of an endangered species. Humans have not be an endangered species except about 70,000 to 100,000 BCE.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Sigh all sexual acts of idolatry are vile and a abomination, wether they are hetereosexual or not. To Judge one sexual act wrong in idol worship you judge all sexual acts . Typical biased church. with painted glasses they try and pick scripture to fit thier failing doctrine. It gets really amusing.

Is marriage only for sex and procreation.

Well this is a bit of a joke. If Christ is going to marry his bride who are both male and female and will have to have sex with them. It will be very interesting. BTW Christ marriage is a same sex marriage as well. Yes his bride is of both male and female. So the question is , Is it figurative or literal. Throw in the jewish marriaage which was originally polygamist then Christ would have a polygamist marriage.
you can argue all you want but the fact of the matter its a Same Sex Marriage,
and its polygamist.

Parenting.
If God called both man and woman Adam then it is only Adam who looks after children. so at the end of the day adam looks after the children.So the sexual gender of who ever looks after those children is not really important as God called all sexual genders Adam.Now we have fun here. God after all is the Father of us all. And has a responsibilty to his creation. Free chioce or not. It seems really stupid to create
and destroy his creation leaving a limitted few. This is not a Loving God it is frankenstein. It also doesnt make real sence. And to be honest if this doctrine is a example of fatherly care and parenthood thier is no suprise many turn from God.
The action of this Being is totally irresponsible and has no right to dictate to anyone. To allow the children of Adam and eve to be born into sin. Who never voted adam and eve to represent the human race is really a joke.Why on earth werent the children born perfect they never sinned. The Church has to do better than this. Church doctrine is a real mess. It is not consistant to the very nature of our God.

I have written this before and I say again before the church can truly be a witness to all mankind you really need to throw out your hypocrisy. And the many discrepencies your doctrine contains. I personally am a Christain and practicing homosexual. This may suprise you and i dont really care. You are not God neither do you hold the book of life. I donot see a pillar of flame coming from your beliefs.God is love. The sacrifice of Christ was to save all. That the human race may stand pure and perfect
in the future. To preach otherwise is the doctrines of stupidity.

 

[Tiapan]

I am an atheist and believe in evolution, therefore the necessary of sexual reproduction required to maintain that. I find homosexuality contradictory to a furthering of this prime motivation of life. Fortunately this appears a minor variant within the species and is therefore self extincting and of no consequence.

But to deny homosexuality is simply ignoring an another amazing complexity of animal nature.

It is not a sin, (between CONSENTING Adults) but it is also not procreative.

Cheers

 

[Kerr]

I am an atheist and believe in evolution, therfore the necessary of sexual reproduction required to maintain that. I find homosexuality contradictory to a furthering of this prime motivation of life. Fortunately this appears a minor variant within the species and is therefore self extincting and of no consequence.

Cheers

Heard once there could be an evolutionary advantage with homosexuality, but I cannot remember what it is. Besides, when did if something works with evolution or not have anything to do with morality?

 

[Tiapan]

Heard once there could be an evolutionary advantage with homosexuality, but I cannot remember what it is. Besides, when did if something works with evolution or not have anything to do with morality?

tricky...Define morality....
Is it social or ecological?

Cheers

PS You were too quick I edited my post a minute later that may address your query.

 

[LittleNipper]

So, since marriage is purposed to have and raise children in a heterosexual environment, what would be the limit on the length of marriage? Men are, generally speaking, capable of creating babies at a much later age than women, so since the purpose of marriage is to make babies, how long after menopause should the marriage be dissolved? Should the marriage be valid until the last child reaches its majority, or should the marriage be dissolved as soon as the woman enters menopause, so that the man can then remarry to "join in a sexual experience to have children" with a fertile female? Should the children from the previous marriage remain with the father, or should they remain with the mother, or should they be shuffled off to an orphanage or adoption agency since their biologic father and biologic mother are no longer capable of producing children?

What about couples that decide to wait to have children? Should there be a limit on how long prior to having children married couples are allowed to wait? I know...let's make it a law that if a couple marries, they must produce a child (the old fashioned way by coitus) within 3 years or the marriage will be annulled (this so that the couple is not committing adultery when they remarry someone else). I say that they have to have the child the "old fashioned way" to protect the couple from committing the sin of fornication only of course.

Hey, I'm still my mama's little boy and my daddy's little man. Grey hair never changes that...

 

[Kerr]

tricky...Define morality....
Is it social or ecological?

Cheers

PS You were too quick I edited my post a minute later that may address your query.

Lol, noticed now. As for morality, to me it is a matter of doing what is right (or what the individual in question consider to be right... ok, I simplify it here, lol). Social, ecological, place it wherever you like .

 

[LittleNipper]

My mother-in-law is a lesbian. She taught all these things to my wife, very well I might add. My wife was raised by her lesbian mother and her life partner. Do you really believe she tried to raise her daughters to be lesbians? Do you think she was heart broken, crushed, and dissapointed when they grew up to be heterosexual? Maybe you should ask all those questions, in person, to a gay couple who already successfully raised children into adults.

I'm sure that you, your wife, and your children are very happy. I would hope that your wife's mom was very, very happy and a happy proud grandmom...

 

[LittleNipper]

Oh, was LN talking about children of heterosexuals? He's trying to say they wouldn't consider same-sex marriage?!?:biglaugh: Who does he think raised all those gay people who want to marry each other, if not heterosexuals?

Do murderers always raise murderers?:no:

 

[LittleNipper]

CBS DIDN'T STOP HIM- THIS IS GREAT
-
Good for him!!!
Surprised CBS let him get away with this even though he's right

Andy Rooney said on '60 Minutes' a few weeks back:


'I don't think being a minority makes you a victim of anything except numbers. The only things I can think of that are truly discriminatory are things like the United Negro College Fund, Jet Magazine, Black Entertainment Television, and Miss Black America. Try to have things like the United Caucasian College Fund, Cloud Magazine, White Entertainment Television, or Miss White America; and see what happens...Jesse Jacksonwill be knocking down your door.

Guns do not make you a killer. I think killing makes you a killer. You can kill
someone with a baseball bat or a car, but no one is trying to ban you from driving to the ball game.

I believe they are called the Boy Scouts for a reason, which is why there are no girls allowed. Girls belong in the Girl Scouts! ARE YOU LISTENING MARTHA BURKE ?

I think that if you feel homosexuality is wrong, it isnot a phobia, it is an
opinion.....

I have the right 'NOT' to be tolerant of others because they are different, weird, or tick me off.

When 70% of the people who get arrested are black, in cities where 70% of the population is black, that is not racial profiling; it is the Law of Probability.

I believe that if you are selling me a milkshake, a pack of cigarettes, a newspaper or a hotel room, you must do it in English! As a matter of fact, if you want to be an American citizen, you should have to speak English!

My father and grandfather didn't die in vain so you can leave the countries you were born in to come over and disrespect ours.

I think the police should have every right to shoot you if you threaten them after they tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word 'freeze' or 'stop' in
English, see the above lines..

I don't think just because you were not born in this country, you are qualified for any special loan programs, government sponsored bank loans or tax breaks, etc., so you can open a hotel, coffee shop, trinket store, or any other business.

We did not go to the aid of certain foreign countries and risk our lives in wars
to defend their freedoms, so that decades later they could come over here and tell us our constitution is a living document; and open to their interpretations.

I don't hate the rich I don't pity the poor

I know pro wrestling is fake, but so are movies and television. That doesn't stop you from watching them.

I think Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made and continueto make more. If it ticks you off, go and invent the next operating system that's better, and put your name on the building.

It doesn't take a whole village to raise a child right, but it does take a parent to
stand up to the kid; and smack their little behinds when necessary, and say 'NO!'

I think tattoos and piercings are fine if you want them, but please don't pretend they are a political statement. And, please, stay home until that new lip ring heals. I don't want to look at your ugly infected mouth as you serve me French fries!

I am sick of 'Political Correctness..' I know a lot of black people, and not a single one of them was born in Africa so how can they be 'African-Americans'? Besides, Africa is a continent. I don't go around saying I am a
European-American because my great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather was from Europe. I am proud to be from America and nowhere else.

And if you don't like my point of view, tough...

I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG, OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC, FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL!

 

[Tiapan]

The large cpitals and emphasises indicate you consider this of some importance. Initial impact has now to be measured in content.

Cheers

 

[Tiapan]

Now I have read some of the content , perceptions are real and reality is vague.

Guns do not make you a killer. I think killing makes you a killer. You can kill
someone with a baseball bat or a car, but no one is trying to ban you from driving to the ball game.

I am not sure how many die through gun shot wounds, but I believe the US has the highest rate in the western world. I love owning a gun myself, it gives me a thrill. If its loaded and pointed at the arseole that's gonna rape and pillage my family then I would probably pull the trigger, however that is hardly ever the real situation.

Its nice to fight back, but in reality it is how you build your society that is more important. Australia and the UK have fairly stingent laws regarding guns, and although I have had my personal privileges curtailed the effect on the community overall has been a decreased in the DEATH TOLL.

Surely this is a positive out come, even though my personal rights have been denied.

But I guess if you can't trust your social structure you have to rely on yourself, then that is legitimate but a sad reflection on your culture.

Cheers

 

[LittleNipper]

Now I have read some of the content , perceptions are real and reality is vague.


I am not sure how many die through gun shot wounds, but I believe the US has the highest rate in the western world. I love owning a gun myself, it gives me a thrill. If its loaded and pointed at the arseole that's gonna rape and pillage my family then I would probably pull the trigger, however that is hardly ever the real situation.

Its nice to fight back, but in reality it is how you build your society that is more important. Australia and the UK have fairly stingent laws regarding guns, and although I have had my personal privileges curtailed the effect on the community overall has been a decreased in the DEATH TOLL.

Surely this is a positive out come, even though my personal rights have been denied.

But I guess if you can't trust your social structure you have to rely on yourself, then that is legitimate but a sad reflection on your culture.

Cheers

I agree with you on a community level... Those citizens can weigh the pros & cons. There is always some problems but I feel the people always know far better than the government who is about what and what is best concerning any given situation in most cases..

 

[Mr Cheese]

The large cpitals and emphasises indicate you consider this of some importance. Initial impact has now to be measured in content.

Cheers

Empty Vessels make the most noise

--Brit Proverb

 

[Autodidact]

Do murderers always raise murderers?:no:

LN: You take the cake for the most cryptic, yet oddly intriguing posts. At this point I literally have no idea what you are driving at. Now are you trying to compare homosexuality to murder in some way? What? btw, this tells me everything I need to know about your moral judgment.

 

[Autodidact]

CBS DIDN'T STOP HIM- THIS IS GREAT
-
Good for him!!!
Surprised CBS let him get away with this even though he's right

Andy Rooney said on '60 Minutes' a few weeks back:


'I don't think being a minority makes you a victim of anything except numbers. The only things I can think of that are truly discriminatory are things like the United Negro College Fund, Jet Magazine, Black Entertainment Television, and Miss Black America. Try to have things like the United Caucasian College Fund, Cloud Magazine, White Entertainment Television, or Miss White America; and see what happens...Jesse Jacksonwill be knocking down your door.

Guns do not make you a killer. I think killing makes you a killer. You can kill
someone with a baseball bat or a car, but no one is trying to ban you from driving to the ball game.

I believe they are called the Boy Scouts for a reason, which is why there are no girls allowed. Girls belong in the Girl Scouts! ARE YOU LISTENING MARTHA BURKE ?

I think that if you feel homosexuality is wrong, it isnot a phobia, it is an
opinion.....

I have the right 'NOT' to be tolerant of others because they are different, weird, or tick me off.

When 70% of the people who get arrested are black, in cities where 70% of the population is black, that is not racial profiling; it is the Law of Probability.

I believe that if you are selling me a milkshake, a pack of cigarettes, a newspaper or a hotel room, you must do it in English! As a matter of fact, if you want to be an American citizen, you should have to speak English!

My father and grandfather didn't die in vain so you can leave the countries you were born in to come over and disrespect ours.

I think the police should have every right to shoot you if you threaten them after they tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word 'freeze' or 'stop' in
English, see the above lines..

I don't think just because you were not born in this country, you are qualified for any special loan programs, government sponsored bank loans or tax breaks, etc., so you can open a hotel, coffee shop, trinket store, or any other business.

We did not go to the aid of certain foreign countries and risk our lives in wars
to defend their freedoms, so that decades later they could come over here and tell us our constitution is a living document; and open to their interpretations.

I don't hate the rich I don't pity the poor

I know pro wrestling is fake, but so are movies and television. That doesn't stop you from watching them.

I think Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made and continueto make more. If it ticks you off, go and invent the next operating system that's better, and put your name on the building.

It doesn't take a whole village to raise a child right, but it does take a parent to
stand up to the kid; and smack their little behinds when necessary, and say 'NO!'

I think tattoos and piercings are fine if you want them, but please don't pretend they are a political statement. And, please, stay home until that new lip ring heals. I don't want to look at your ugly infected mouth as you serve me French fries!

I am sick of 'Political Correctness..' I know a lot of black people, and not a single one of them was born in Africa so how can they be 'African-Americans'? Besides, Africa is a continent. I don't go around saying I am a
European-American because my great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather was fromEurope. I am proud to be from America and nowhere else.

And if you don't like my point of view, tough...

I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG, OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC, FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL!

Like everything else you think you know, Little Nipper, you're wrong. Andy Rooney never said these things; you've been tricked again. Andy Rooney is not a right-wing, intolerant, racist jerk. I can't say the same for anyone who thinks this crap is brilliant, or that posting in large colored fonts makes what you say any more true. Andy Rooney is a well-known liberal.

Now, back to you. According to your own definition, are you a bigot, or do you agree that children of same-sex parents do as well as children of heterosexual parents?

 

[LittleNipper]

LN: You take the cake for the most cryptic, yet oddly intriguing posts. At this point I literally have no idea what you are driving at. Now are you trying to compare homosexuality to murder in some way? What? btw, this tells me everything I need to know about your moral judgment.

I'm not ---- though they are both sin and the result of sin. What I'm pointing out that just because one doesn't act out a specific sin, has little bearing as to what sort of sins that one's children are capable of getting involved in... Some kids smoke because they saw their parents smoke, but others smoke just because their friends do...