Is Paul arrogant?

[b.finton]

Is there any scripture to point to that will substantiate the teaching

Rev. 13:8 comes to mind, a first thread in a string of verses that fleet through my mind from time to time.

I quit studying scripture when it became apparent I couldn't escape arguments about it: every time I picked up a bible, I was unable to shelve the doctrinal back-and-forth, with the result that I found myself reading not to discover more about the faces of HaShem, but to prove or disprove a point. Had I continued in study under such duress, it had been without remembrance of my first love (Jn. 5:39). Had I continued studying under those parameters, I had made of my study idolatry. HaShem had other things for me to do.

Yahushua (not the man, Y'Shua) is the light that lights every man that comes into the world, good and bad. He's the understanding that shines from the menorah within. Because Yahushua is the light in every man, the thoughts of the Projection of Yah must measure the thoughts of every man, throughout time.

b.

 

[Pegg]

Why? They are YHVH's commands? Why would following exactly what God says be a negative thing?

Wouldn't following YHVH's ways be a pretty good indicator of a persons heart??

anyone can obey a law... people obey laws given by their government, but that doesnt mean they love their government.

We have to 'love God with our whole mind heart soul and strength' Laws do not make a person love God any more or less.

The way to demonstrate our love for God is to take away law and let us live without it... and those who love God will continue to abide by his laws as best they can. And this is how the prophecy of Jeremiah becomes a reality Jer 31:33 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I will write it. And I will become their God, and they will become my people.”

Only those who truly have Gods law in their heart will become his people. And you cannot show Gods law is on your heart until the legal requirement to obey is removed.

I guess you need to throw away these verses:

And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us. Deut 6: 25

but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments Deut 5:10

And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Exo 20:6

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Rev 22:14

Which mosaic law(s) have you failed at upholding?

 

[Simplelogic]

anyone can obey a law... people obey laws given by their government, but that doesnt mean they love their government.

We have to 'love God with our whole mind heart soul and strength' Laws do not make a person love God any more or less.

The way to demonstrate our love for God is to take away law and let us live without it... and those who love God will continue to abide by his laws as best they can. And this is how the prophecy of Jeremiah becomes a reality Jer 31:33 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I will write it. And I will become their God, and they will become my people.”

Only those who truly have Gods law in their heart will become his people. And you cannot show Gods law is on your heart until the legal requirement to obey is removed.



Which mosaic law(s) have you failed at upholding?

Jer 31:33 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares Jehovah. “I will put my law (Torah) within them, and in their heart I will write it. And I will become their God, and they will become my people.”

Ummm. Where is the confusion. YHVH says the Torah (law of Moses) will be written on our heart. Exactly like the way He originally commanded us:

"You shall therefore impress these words of mine on your heart and on your soul; and you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. Deut 11:18

There is no way to follow YHVH's law without your heart being involved because the law commands obedience from the heart! It is also impossible to follow the commandments without being humble because the Torah commands humility!

 

[b.finton]

There is no way to follow YHVH's law without your heart being involved because the law commands obedience from the heart! It is also impossible to follow the commandments without being humble because the Torah commands humility!

Where you write "commands" I would suggest "promises." After the wink at our times of ignorance, HaShem does, indeed, command, but that command is in the context of the on-going promise: it's a stern and energizing prompt to us laggards as we stumble towards the magnified Torah, which is honorable in all respects.

b.

 

[Simplelogic]

Where you write "commands" I would suggest "promises." After the wink at our times of ignorance, HaShem does, indeed, command, but that command is in the context of the on-going promise: it's a stern and energizing prompt to us laggards as we stumble towards the magnified Torah, which is honorable in all respects.

b.

Agreed

 

[Simplelogic]

Anyone?

 

[Simplelogic]

anyone can obey a law... people obey laws given by their government, but that doesnt mean they love their government.

We have to 'love God with our whole mind heart soul and strength' Laws do not make a person love God any more or less.

The way to demonstrate our love for God is to take away law and let us live without it... and those who love God will continue to abide by his laws as best they can. And this is how the prophecy of Jeremiah becomes a reality Jer 31:33 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I will write it. And I will become their God, and they will become my people.”

Only those who truly have Gods law in their heart will become his people. And you cannot show Gods law is on your heart until the legal requirement to obey is removed.



Which mosaic law(s) have you failed at upholding?

I have failed to keep many of God's commands over my lifetime. God does not require perfect obedience though. Only someone willing to continue to learn from their mistakes and admit their faults. The beauty is in the transformation.

 

[leibowde84]

Paul was the first anti christ foretold by Jesus, he was an evil man, and believe it or not Paul, not Jesus was the founder of most of the early christian church. People need to be educated about just how wrong he and his teachings are, otherwise they may entirely miss out on the great Blessing Jesus' actual words can bring to their life. The emphasis Of Paul's heresy over Jesus' wisdom in many Christian churches today is part and parcel of what's wrong with Christianity. Follow Jesus as your leader or follow Paul, you choice may decide just how warm your future is!!!
Me, I like it cool!!

I actually agree with this for the most part. I try to be extremely skeptical of anyone who claims to speak for Jesus after his death. The problem is that Jesus never wrote anything down, so the only thing we have to go on is men who claimed to be writing accurately about what Jesus said having not been there when he said it.

 

[Unification]

Paul was the first anti christ foretold by Jesus, he was an evil man, and believe it or not Paul, not Jesus was the founder of most of the early christian church. People need to be educated about just how wrong he and his teachings are, otherwise they may entirely miss out on the great Blessing Jesus' actual words can bring to their life. The emphasis Of Paul's heresy over Jesus' wisdom in many Christian churches today is part and parcel of what's wrong with Christianity. Follow Jesus as your leader or follow Paul, you choice may decide just how warm your future is!!!
Me, I like it cool!!

Paul is mistaken and speaks spiritually. The church is the physical body the soul resides in, and the temple is the conscious mind, not a vain physical building. Paul's Christ was internal and where he was taught and conditioned by no one. Because people and churches misinterpret just about everything in texts and take them all literally and outwardly, is what is wrong with Christianity, and also drool over a spiritual/internal book of myths and make up what they want it to say literally, historically, and outwardly is what's wrong with Christianity.

 

[Lyndon]

Most of the problems I see with Christianity involve people and churches that place much more emphasis on what I consider the nonsense of Paul's teaching, and largely less emphasis on Jesus' teaching, if Paul contradicts Jesus they always claim Paul supersedes Jesus. In essence they worship Paul, not Jesus who is supposed to be their true leader, Jesus said in the Gospels "ye are judged by your works" . Paul said your works are as filthy rags and all you need is faith, completely wrong IMHO.
The other main problem with Christianity is thinking the Old Testament Jews were an example of a healthy religious people, again, just the opposite is true, the Old Testament in my opinion is an example of just how wrong a concept of God a wicked people can make up. IMHO

 

[sojourner]

Poetry??? Well, I must say, Paul was no Shakespeare. These remarks sound more like self diluted, narcissistic comments with traces of psychosis sprinkled throughout.

Of course they do -- to one who's looking for excuses not to take Paul seriously and actually study him.

 

[leibowde84]

Of course they do -- to one who's looking for excuses not to take Paul seriously and actually study him.

Why do you believe what Paul claimed?

 

[sojourner]

Why do you believe what Paul claimed?

For the same reason I take every scriptural text as a baseline for textual authenticity.

 

[leibowde84]

For the same reason I take every scriptural text as a baseline for textual authenticity.

How so? And why? Just faith?

 

[Lyndon]

A lot of devout Christians don't have any idea how powerful evil and the Devil is, the Devil is right there in a good part of their Bible, Jesus is the only light shining out of the whole rotten book.

 

[leibowde84]

A lot of devout Christians don't have any idea how powerful evil and the Devil is, the Devil is right there in a good part of their Bible, Jesus is the only light shining out of the whole rotten book.

And we don't even know if they got his words right, do we?

 

[sojourner]

How so? And why? Just faith?

The texts are what they are. They say what they say. At some point, the questioning and skepticism goes beyond the point of negative return on the investment put into them. When I read Paul, it doesn't do any good to question whether Paul said what he said. The texts are the only evidence we have of his writing and of his theological stances. Therefore, that's the only way we can realistically deal with him -- through what the texts say. Therefore, the texts are the baseline for Paul.

 

[leibowde84]

The texts are what they are. They say what they say. At some point, the questioning and skepticism goes beyond the point of negative return on the investment put into them. When I read Paul, it doesn't do any good to question whether Paul said what he said. The texts are the only evidence we have of his writing and of his theological stances. Therefore, that's the only way we can realistically deal with him -- through what the texts say. Therefore, the texts are the baseline for Paul.

I'm not talking about textual accuracy so much as validity. Why do you believe the claims that Paul makes in the Bible? There have been many other so-called "speakers for God/Jesus" that I assume you don't pay any credence, but you do with Paul. What makes him so believable?

 

[psychoslice]

Paul did the best he could back in all those years ago, but time has changed, we have learnt a lot more than Paul could ever learn, and so we must make a new scripture, preferably from within each one of us.

 

[leibowde84]

Paul did the best he could back in all those years ago, but time has changed, we have learnt a lot more than Paul could ever learn, and so we must make a new scripture, preferably from within each one of us.

Seems reasonable to me.