Is Peace on Earth Really God's Goal????

[URAVIP2ME]

The question remains. Is your God so weak that He must resort to executing His wicked children???? Would not a God of a Higher Level choose to educate His children to the point of really understanding their actions and choices? The results would be that evil would no longer be a viable choice?
Too often, mankind attempts to destroy what is not easily fixed. Are we to see our view of God as ourselves?? I think not. God has to have Greater Wisdom than executing the problems.

I find the whole Bible is about educating His children.
Those who really want to understand will, as Jesus taught us to pray for God's spirit to help us at Luke 11:13 B.
The Ethiopian official of Acts chapter 8 was helped to understand by Philip, so where the people of Acts 17:11.
So, through prayer, the pages of Scripture, and help from others, we are being educated.
It is one's own choice to be educated or not. Even Jesus by age 12 was well educated in Scripture.
In Scripture I find that God always forewarns in advance before taking action.
So, both the wicked and the righteous are warned. The righteous to stay on the right path, the wicked to repent.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes, more or less, the biblical peace that is spoken of is not of this earth, but heaven.

To me, if Not of this Earth, then why pray for God's kingdom government to ' come ' ( thy kingdom come ).
We don't pray ' take me up to the kingdom', nor pray ' take me away to the kingdom ', but for the kingdom to come.
And God's will (His purpose) to be done right here on Earth as it is being done in Heaven.
God's will for Heaven is good conditions: No violence in heaven, No pollution, No war, No sickness, No death, etc.
So, we are praying for those same good heavenly conditions to come here on Earth as in Heaven.
Here on Earth the time is coming when No one will say, " I am sick..... " according to Isaiah 33:24
I find there will be No more death on Earth according to Isaiah 25:8; 1 Corinthians 15:26.
There will be healing for earth's nations according to Revelation 22:2 including the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' on Earth for the healing of earth's nations.
Also, included in that biblical peace are the humble meek people who will inherit the Earth according to Matthew 5:5

 

[Repox]

It's easy to rely on Beliefs when all the facts are not known. You are right. So much of religion is about Beliefs and ideas of what people want God to be. Beliefs will never be all true.

Perhaps, the only true way to know it to look around at God's actions and also see what actually is.

Let's take a quick look at some of the obvious things. We live in a world where people flourish. The rest of our solar system is barren. If God did not care, we could all be on the edge of survival constantly.

We see God allows our free speak and free choice. I think allowing freedom is a sign of caring.

God doesn't just give us advanced knowledge. It must be discovered. Doesn't that show that God cares enough not to allow our capabilities grow beyond our wisdom?

God supplies this world with Great Diversity. Doesn't this show that God cares enough to give us a larger view than any one person could have? Supplying a broad knowledge base is caring.

I think there are examples of God caring all around us. God knows pain is important in letting us know something is wrong yet God places limits. When there is too much pain, the body goes into shock. If God did not care, why place the limit on pain?

The causal nature of the universe allows learning through the results of our actions, and choices . Isn't it caring to place different levels of students together, each with different knowledge so that the answers, knowledge and wisdom will be discovered through the interaction?

As I see it, the answers are all around us staring us in the face. Put the pieces together and the picture will become clear.

Doesn't it depend on your circumstances? Before the industrial revolution, the majority of people were poor, died early from diseases or plagues, and didn't have today's advantages.
It is how we evolved, what age we live in, what nation we live in, what side of the political spectrum we're on, and weather or not we are at war or subject to persecution. How would it have been to be born a Jew in Hitler's Nazi Germany? How about being a slave in one of many nations when almost 90 of the world's population were slaves? How about being a serf in medieval Europe? How about being a black slave on a Southern cotton plantation before the Civil War? How about being a member of the wrong party or political faction in a war torn African nation? How about being on the loosing side of any war? How about being a Christian in a Muslim nation? How about being a Sunni Muslim in a Shiite Muslim nation? Or vice versa? In the real world, circumstance, not God's love or favoritism, dictates fortune or calamity.

 

[MJFlores]

“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law— a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’ Matthew 10:34-36

Poof, the problem is solved might make good stories but rarely solves anything. For people to exist peacefully in a heavenly setting, they will need to understand much more than they do. World War 3 among all those good believers would not be a smart move for Heaven of any kind.

If people are educated through many lives to the point of Real Knowledge and Understanding, all the kiddies would make it to Heaven and there would be Peace. There really is no need to hate those who make bad choices when they can be taught to Understand.

Well, that's the way I see it. If I can think of a better way than simply frying the kiddies, I'm sure God already has it figured out.

Yep, God has figured it out and it is written in the Bible.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 New International Version (NIV)

Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

 

[osgart]

God would desire heartful willfully just people. God would do whatever it takes toward this end. while of course defending God's own way and self and own kind.

not by force or demand , not by command but by free will only.

we are not robots. And fear mongering doesn't change anyone.

God desires equals at heart. otherwise you are all on your own.

 

[Skwim]

How about this: This is how I see it. God created us all because God knows what every parent knows. Kids make life Grand. This time-based causal universe is perfect for the educational process. Our choices create results by which we learn.

Okay, god created the universe and put people on planet Earth because we would make life grand for him. Well, considering that he had to essentially erase the whole thing with a global flood and restart it from scratch, it's obvious we weren't living up to his expectations to make his life grand. Of course it doesn't help that he keeps creating evil for us to battle, but, hey, it's his game.

So what do you do? This is where the great intelligence comes in. You create a world in this causal universe and you place kiddies at different levels of knowledge, understanding, and views to learn from each other through the interaction. You see, with the Ego involved, it's not enough to tell kiddies what to do. By Living the lessons through their own free choices, learning is at the maximum.

But as I just pointed out, it didn't work---flood and all. So now he's on his second go-around with, as far as we can tell, the same kind of human creatures. And if his objective is to derive some kind of grand feeling from his "kids" why would he saddle them with evil and deadly aliments? It's almost as if this grand feeling of his depends on our suffering. And there's a term for people like this: sadists.

Since everything can not be learned in one mere lifetime, there are no limits to our lifetimes.

Sorry, but I don't by your imagined tale here.

Well, this very general view is how I see it. There is no hate, no judging, no condemning and you won't have to fry any kids.

Sure there is, but it seems like you've taken yourself off track here; something I have no interest in pursuing.

..

 

[Ben Dhyan]

If God is at a Higher Level and has Great Intelligence, God has to fix the kiddies rather than Frying them. Is it really Intelligent to do it any other way?? I think not!

Who said anything about frying them? Human souls must learn the truth of what and who they really are, not as a conceptual truth, but really.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I find the 'process goes on' only until Earth is populated, and Not over populated according to Genesis 1:28.
Mankind was to reproduce, or populate the Earth, and Not over fill, or over populate the Earth.
Jesus chooses some to be resurrected to heaven - Revelation 20:6
The majority of people can be part of the humble meek who will inherit the Earth - Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:10-11.

Why do you say the world is over populated?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

To me, if Not of this Earth, then why pray for God's kingdom government to ' come ' ( thy kingdom come ).
We don't pray ' take me up to the kingdom', nor pray ' take me away to the kingdom ', but for the kingdom to come.
And God's will (His purpose) to be done right here on Earth as it is being done in Heaven.
God's will for Heaven is good conditions: No violence in heaven, No pollution, No war, No sickness, No death, etc.
So, we are praying for those same good heavenly conditions to come here on Earth as in Heaven.
Here on Earth the time is coming when No one will say, " I am sick..... " according to Isaiah 33:24
I find there will be No more death on Earth according to Isaiah 25:8; 1 Corinthians 15:26.
There will be healing for earth's nations according to Revelation 22:2 including the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' on Earth for the healing of earth's nations.
Also, included in that biblical peace are the humble meek people who will inherit the Earth according to Matthew 5:5

The lengthened version of the original lord's Prayer of Luke in Matthew includes the "thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven..." insertion. I had learned of this over 30 years ago and verified its veracity through my own research at the time and confirmed by theological scholars. Here is a mention of it.... Forgeries of the Christian Bible

 

[Bird123]

I find the whole Bible is about educating His children.
Those who really want to understand will, as Jesus taught us to pray for God's spirit to help us at Luke 11:13 B.
The Ethiopian official of Acts chapter 8 was helped to understand by Philip, so where the people of Acts 17:11.
So, through prayer, the pages of Scripture, and help from others, we are being educated.
It is one's own choice to be educated or not. Even Jesus by age 12 was well educated in Scripture.
In Scripture I find that God always forewarns in advance before taking action.
So, both the wicked and the righteous are warned. The righteous to stay on the right path, the wicked to repent.

So it's OK to fry the kiddies as long as you warn them, right? I think not. Further, one can attempt to tell someone lessons, however that will never be the same as Living those lessons. There really are no excuses for frying the kiddies. Unconditional Love loves regardless of the other's actions. Are you trying to say God is not Unconditional Love??

 

[Bird123]

Doesn't it depend on your circumstances? Before the industrial revolution, the majority of people were poor, died early from diseases or plagues, and didn't have today's advantages.
It is how we evolved, what age we live in, what nation we live in, what side of the political spectrum we're on, and weather or not we are at war or subject to persecution. How would it have been to be born a Jew in Hitler's Nazi Germany? How about being a slave in one of many nations when almost 90 of the world's population were slaves? How about being a serf in medieval Europe? How about being a black slave on a Southern cotton plantation before the Civil War? How about being a member of the wrong party or political faction in a war torn African nation? How about being on the loosing side of any war? How about being a Christian in a Muslim nation? How about being a Sunni Muslim in a Shiite Muslim nation? Or vice versa? In the real world, circumstance, not God's love or favoritism, dictates fortune or calamity.

As I see it, one chooses what lessons one wants to learn. Our actions and choices tell the world and God what we need to learn.

It doesn't matter what everyone around us chooses. It's what we choose that counts.

 

[Bird123]

“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law— a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’ Matthew 10:34-36



Yep, God has figured it out and it is written in the Bible.

View attachment 17142

1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 New International Version (NIV)

Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

The Intelligent person has no enemies. Isn't Unconditional Love the Real Answer?? If what you say is true, your god comes up a bit lacking in the Higher Level department.

Surely the Real God can solve it all without threats, hate, intimidation and condemnation. How could God teach His children to advance to a Higher Level if He were to use all those petty things?

 

[Bird123]

Okay, god created the universe and put people on planet Earth because we would make life grand for him. Well, considering that he had to essentially erase the whole thing with a global flood and restart it from scratch, it's obvious we weren't living up to his expectations to make his life grand. Of course it doesn't help that he keeps creating evil for us to battle, but, hey, it's his game.


But as I just pointed out, it didn't work---flood and all. So now he's on his second go-around with, as far as we can tell, the same kind of human creatures. And if his objective is to derive some kind of grand feeling from his "kids" why would he saddle them with evil and deadly aliments? It's almost as if this grand feeling of his depends on our suffering. And there's a term for people like this: sadists.


Sorry, but I don't by your imagined tale here.

Sure there is, but it seems like you've taken yourself off track here; something I have no interest in pursuing.

..

Did God really destroy mankind with a worldwide flood? Mixing stories and beliefs with reality won't bring the Real Truth.

So what has illness and such brought to mankind? It has lead mankind to new knowledge. If no one ever got sick, medicine would not have to be discovered. The point of this discussion is that we are not all here to have it made. It's not about having Peace or having it easy. Isn't it about Learning??

 

[Skwim]

Did God really destroy mankind with a worldwide flood?

Just about. Or so the Bible tells us so.

Mixing stories and beliefs with reality won't bring the Real Truth.

I recognize how handy cherry picking the Bible can be, but I don't buy it. If your in for a dime your in for a dollar.

So what has illness and such brought to mankind? It has lead mankind to new knowledge. If no one ever got sick, medicine would not have to be discovered.

The point of this discussion is that we are not all here to have it made. It's not about having Peace or having it easy. Isn't it about Learning??

Nope. It's about being fortunate enough that one's lineage was never interrupted before procreating.

.

 

[MJFlores]

The Intelligent person has no enemies. Isn't Unconditional Love the Real Answer?? If what you say is true, your god comes up a bit lacking in the Higher Level department.

Surely the Real God can solve it all without threats, hate, intimidation and condemnation. How could God teach His children to advance to a Higher Level if He were to use all those petty things?

Just reading from the book not on my opinion or wish what will God should be doing.

Unconditional love - no such thing. Love has conditions.

John 3:16-18 New International Version (NIV)

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

and those are the conditions for eternal love or eternal punishment

 

[Segev Moran]

Who can say how long it takes to learn it all? Maybe it's a good thing there really are no limits on the amount of time or lives for the eternal.

Ok.
Lets assume we cant "timestamp" it.
How can we tell if the education is successful or not? (subjectively)
Meaning, how can i tell if i am on the right track or not?
I Think it is safe to assume the most important part in education, is the student knowing if he is acting correctly, or not.

 

[Shadow Pricer]

Just reading from the book not on my opinion or wish what will God should be doing.

Unconditional love - no such thing. Love has conditions.

John 3:16-18 New International Version (NIV)

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

and those are the conditions for eternal love or eternal punishment

You aren't reading that right. Those sure are conditions, but they aren't the conditions for us to receive God's love. Love is an action, and God DID act, right there before the part you bolded. Those conditions are the ones to receive the result of His love.

I have an alcoholic father-in-law. His life is a mess. But I love him so much that I once paid the entire $40k cost of rehab when he finally agreed to go. But the day after arriving he changed his mind and left. His lack of willingness to take the gift I provided to him doesn't change how much I love him, how much I gave to help him get better, or how much I would give again. But how much he actually got helped was conditional to him believing that rehab was the right thing for him. He failed that condition, which is why he still wakes up each afternoon in a pool of his own urine.

Don't be like him - and I'm not talking about alcohol - bottoms up! (responsibly)
Don't be like him, complaining that his family doesn't love him anymore - that's his interpretation of his children's hesitancy to spend the night while visiting their parents.

 

[Bird123]

Just about. Or so the Bible tells us so.


I recognize how handy cherry picking the Bible can be, but I don't buy it. If your in for a dime your in for a dollar.





Nope. It's about being fortunate enough that one's lineage was never interrupted before procreating.

.

In for a penny, in for a pound??? All Holy Books are written by mankind. Although all Holy Books have some truth in them, I do not follow any of them. Further, I think people should discover the Truth for themselves rather than hang onto to Beliefs of any kind. As I see it, Beliefs merely point a direction by which one might search to discover the Real Truth. Since all Beliefs are not true, one should never ever blindly rely on them.

Next, really look around you. There is so much more to this world than Random Chance.

 

[Bird123]

Just reading from the book not on my opinion or wish what will God should be doing.

Unconditional love - no such thing. Love has conditions.

John 3:16-18 New International Version (NIV)

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

and those are the conditions for eternal love or eternal punishment

Those words are written by Mankind who do not Love Unconditionally. They have not yet learned to do just that.

As I see it, one only has to question to realize God could never be what so many Holy Books claim. Why not? You ask. It is not an Intelligent way to be and as we look around the universe, there is evidence of real Intelligence.

 

[Bird123]

Ok.
Lets assume we cant "timestamp" it.
How can we tell if the education is successful or not? (subjectively)
Meaning, how can i tell if i am on the right track or not?
I Think it is safe to assume the most important part in education, is the student knowing if he is acting correctly, or not.

Have you ever really watched people? Their choices and actions speak to volumes of who they are and what they know. As I see it, this method is a Great way to Discover God as well.

OK. Having lived all sides, intelligence always makes the right choices. You can know that you have learned because the problem doesn't come back. When lessons are not learned and problems not solved, don't they just return until they are?