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Is premarital sex a good, a bad, or a nuetral event in terms of ethics and of effect?

MoonWater

Warrior Bard
Premium Member
From my personal point of view sex before marriage is negative in terms of ethics and moral effect. It is not merely the physical sex act that is unethical, but the immaturity of the situation when there is not a union or interchange of one another on an emotional and spiritual level there is unrighteousness in that, for it dishonors both parties. Sex doesn't just have to do with consent between two people who desire intercourse, as true the true relationship and intercourse also extends to the party's respective family members. Personally as someone who has had unconscionable sex with others, it has taught me life lessons in my young life about the nature of human desire and our real needs.

It always confuses me why people who follow the no sex before marriage mentality also seem to assume that just because a couple doesn't have some legal piece of paper with the word marriage written on it that means they don't any "union" or "interchange of one another on an emotional and spiritual level" or however you wish to put it and that if they are having sex they are doing just to satisfy their own lustful cravings. First off I would think one would want that kind of deep connection with a person before even considering getting married. Second off how on earth does a piece of paper signed by legal officials make any difference in this regard? Why does the lack of that legal document automatically make the intercourse "immature"?

A person doesn't need to be married in order to have that deep connection you describe. I have personal experience to attest to this point.
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Of course, you are absolutely correct. The piece of paper is just a legal part.

The real point is that they are committed. The marriage or the legal process is just to protect the rights of both sides.

In my opinion, If they declare their commitment to each other and to others, they have actually met the requirements of marriage in the eyes of religion. As long as they understand that this commitment means that there is responsibilities that will bind each of them, like for example if a child is conceived, the father must provide for him.

So the legal part is just to preserve these rights. If they have sex before marriage, and conceived a child, i don't think the man will be required by the law to provide for him. Which makes it much harder for the mother to raise her child properly when she has to work all day.
 

I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
Of course, you are absolutely correct. The piece of paper is just a legal part.

The real point is that they are committed. The marriage or the legal process is just to protect the rights of both sides.

In my opinion, If they declare their commitment to each other and to others, they have actually met the requirements of marriage in the eyes of religion. As long as they understand that this commitment means that there is responsibilities that will bind each of them, like for example if a child is conceived, the father must provide for him.

So the legal part is just to preserve these rights. If they have sex before marriage, and conceived a child, i don't think the man will be required by the law to provide for him. Which makes it much harder for the mother to raise her child properly when she has to work all day.
That's not true. Unmarried mothers can collect child support from the father even if the two are not together. All that matters is that this man is the father of the child.
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
That's not true. Unmarried mothers can collect child support from the father even if the two are not together. All that matters is that this man is the father of the child.

I was giving an example that the legal binding just protects the rights of both sides more, i gave a wrong one.

But don't you agree that both sides will have better safety and insurance if they are legally considered as a couple?
 

I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
I was giving an example that the legal binding just protects the rights of both sides more, i gave a wrong one.

But don't you agree that both sides will have better safety and insurance if they are legally considered as a couple?
This is true; that's all the liscence of marriage is really for. It's more for tax reasons and writing of wills than about the love two people share for eachother.
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
This is true; that's all the liscence of marriage is really for. It's more for tax reasons and writing of wills than about the love two people share for eachother.

That's what i basically meant, that as long as they are committed to each other and declare that, not only is it harmless, but also approved by religion (In my opinion), and that this paper is just for legal security.
 

AxisMundi

E Pluribus Unum!!!
I disagree, Sex is healthy, energizing, fun, and very satisfying if properly respected. It is also the means wherein two people usher into mortality other of God's children and that is a sacred responsibility not to be taken lightly, so sacred that some very strict bounds have been established with regard to it. It is not to be trifled with nor is stepping outside those bounds to be justified in any way. If two people stay within those bounds the joy is great and the satisfaction extends throughout mortal existence and the joyful effects thereof continue to grow throughout eternity. Sadly though, the sorrow of disobedience does the same. The rules regarding sex are really quite simple and for good reason, going afoul is too easy and the ramifications of setting aside something so simple and sacred to satisfy ones own animal instincts are eternally far reaching and can shake the very eternal foundations of those children that result from such unauthorized sexual unions. This is why immorality as defined by God is such a serious offence. I believe it is also why some (and not a few) want to declare themselves as Atheists’; it makes it easier to tune out guilt as they mindlessly seek instant gratification in all its forms regardless of the consequences.

"Gods children" assigned the scewed qualities you list above to sex as a pure theopolitical control device, a way of ltierally grabbing the sheeple by the short and curlies.
 

MSizer

MSizer
... I believe it is also why some (and not a few) want to declare themselves as Atheists’; it makes it easier to tune out guilt as they mindlessly seek instant gratification in all its forms regardless of the consequences.

Let's think about this for a second.

1. I decide to declare myself the prime minister of canada.
2. I walk into the prime minister's house, make myself a sandwich, drop my *** onto the couch and turn on the TV.
3. If the police show up and take me away, should I be surprised? Of course not, becasue I'm not stupid enough to think that simply uttering some words makes them true.

Therefore, if you think that the typical atheist "declares" him/herself atheist just to get away with doing selfish things and not fearing the wrath of god, it says far more about your logical powers than those of atheists in general.
 

Cosmos

Member
MoonWater... I, in fact, never stated anything conclusive regarding a piece of paper.

This is a common reaction amidst young people, such as myself, who have commitment issues, but does not hold water since I was talking about the true definition of the marriage ceremony.

I personally wouldn't presume what people do and do not want in a relationship, that is why I said it's important that a couple be fully engaged in communication and open committal to family members and society at large.

I am glad to see my comment started a real thread of conversation. :)
 

McBell

Unbound
I was talking about the true definition of the marriage ceremony.
What, exactly, is this "true definition of the marriage ceremony"?

I mean, here I been married for over ten years and it seems, based upon your post, that we must have it all wrong....
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Man is a controlling lot. Now they want to control sex. How are they doing with that one???? No one will ever tell!!! There is only one thing about premarital sex. If you have kids, you must be responsible. There are too many single parents today. Children need both male and female influences growing up. Need those moms and pops!!!! We must remember that man invented marriage. Yes, what would we do without the lawyers???? God places chemistry that binds couples together. This is not to be confused with lust. If you wait for your true love, not only will life be better but the sex will too. So would you call me neutral????? Be who you must. It's a part of the plan. There will always be consequences for our actions. Choose wisely. Lessons and learning always follow. Finally, remember, it's not all about you. Take care of those wonderful kids first. It will be your duty as a parent. Yes, that's why they call them reproductive organs. THAT'S WHAT THEY DO!!! MAKE KIDS!!
 

Cosmos

Member
What, exactly, is this "true definition of the marriage ceremony"?

I mean, here I been married for over ten years and it seems, based upon your post, that we must have it all wrong....

Good question, Mestemia. This answer would receive as many varying explanations as there are cultures to give a viewpoint on the matter! To be honest, I can only relate my understanding of what a proper and true marriage ceremony is from a Baha'i point of view. According to our laws, marriage does not consist of a legal piece of paper other than consent from both party's parents, which is a necessity for a legal binding. There need not be great expenses or lavish ceremonies, but this is up to the couple to choose and provide on their own, for all that is needed are the sacred vows said. Also, two friends as witnesses are needed. All I can say is it is up to society at large to be mature enough to realize the responsibilities of marriage. I nor anyone else can tell another what a marriage relationship is for them.
 

McBell

Unbound
Man is a controlling lot. Now they want to control sex.
Now?
Where the hell have you been hiding?

How are they doing with that one???? No one will ever tell!!!
Seems religion has been doing a rather superb job until recently.

Children need both male and female influences growing up. Need those moms and pops!!!!
This is an old wives tail.

If you wait for your true love, not only will life be better but the sex will too.
Hey, whatever helps you sleep at nights.
 

MoonWater

Warrior Bard
Premium Member
MoonWater... I, in fact, never stated anything conclusive regarding a piece of paper.

This is a common reaction amidst young people, such as myself, who have commitment issues, but does not hold water since I was talking about the true definition of the marriage ceremony.

I personally wouldn't presume what people do and do not want in a relationship, that is why I said it's important that a couple be fully engaged in communication and open committal to family members and society at large.

I am glad to see my comment started a real thread of conversation. :)

My apologies. I misunderstood your post.

Though my statement still stands in general as it brings up a view that I have come across many people expressing that I have never understood
 

Duck

Well-Known Member
It is true that sorrow can come in wedlock as well as out but that is because the participants are ignoring the rules, it's a package deal, you cannot dissect the commandments and keep only those you want and toss the rest.

Why not, christians do this all the time?

God treats us like children because compared to the glory, knowledge, and grandeur of God we are ignorant little children needing a much defined set of rules to guide us into adulthood in the realms of eternity. Otherwise we would fare no better than a child left to its own devices, afloat with a sinking boat in a sea of sharks. Without God all any of us can do is cry in denial of our own ignorance.

I am an adult, fully grown, and quite capable of deciding myself what is correct behavior and what is wrong behavior, I need no "heavenly father" or slavemaster to set me rules and bedtimes.
 

Vietta

Bassguitargirl
I've already mentioned Maslow's Hierarchy of needs on this forum but I'm going to make reference to it again. Sex is on the very first level of what people need in life, right next to breathing and eating. Sex is natural and everyone needs it. Ethically people say sex is a bad thing that only bad people or married people do, but that is the very morally based version of things and sometimes morals are a little too stringent. People need sex and most all are miserable without it, so why force ourselves to be miserable just for the convenience of a few high and mighty individuals who try to tell us what we should do?

Do I think people should go around havin' sex and makin' babies to their little hearts content? Hell no, but I do think that so long as both partners in the intercourse are willing and consent-aged individuals who are smart enough to use protection then its most definitely not a bad thing.
 
Why should marriage, or the lack there of, dictate the sexual experiences of an individual?!?! Premarital sex should always be up to the parties involved, not outsiders full of judgmental comments.
 

FluentYank3825

Ironic Idealist
I remember a quote made by George Bernard Shaw that said that both uncontrolled sexual promiscuity and the excessive enforcement of chastity can be considered vices. I agree with this viewpoint. We must strike a balance between the two, and such balances are inevitably different for all people.

As for me, Stoicism dictates that for a choice to be considered a vice, its consequences must do more harm to the person than good. In my case, a pre-marital sexual relationship would do more harm to me than good, as I am financially incapable at this time to support a potential child, a very possible consequence of coitus, and its mother. In someone else's case, pre-marital sex could be more beneficial than harmful, if he or she is more prepared to face the consequences that could result from it. Sadly, I myself have seen in my examples of pre-marital sexual affairs that have done more harm to the individuals than good, and such examples I feel are becoming more and more the norm these days. Religions in general tend to have such strict rules regarding sexuality because they fear the excessive harm these relationships can cause, but that does not mean that all pre-marital sexual relationships are harmful, so long as the participating parties are made aware of the consequences. I also feel that some religions shouldn't go full-bore on condemning sexuality as evil and forbid its members from participating in it. An example of this is the enforcement of celibacy in the Catholic clergy. If they were allowed to have families and utilize their nature-given power to procreate, many of the sex scandals plaguing the Vatican would be avoided. Sex holds within it the power to create human life, a power nature has given us. It must never be suppressed, but it must at the same time be respected and used with the proper timing, such timing being different for every individual.
 

Engyo

Prince of Dorkness!
Is premarital sex a good, a bad, or a nuetral event in terms of ethics and of effect?
Could be any of the above - it's situational, cultural, and individual.
 

I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
Man is a controlling lot. Now they want to control sex. How are they doing with that one???? No one will ever tell!!! There is only one thing about premarital sex. If you have kids, you must be responsible. There are too many single parents today. Children need both male and female influences growing up. Need those moms and pops!!!! We must remember that man invented marriage. Yes, what would we do without the lawyers???? God places chemistry that binds couples together. This is not to be confused with lust. If you wait for your true love, not only will life be better but the sex will too. So would you call me neutral????? Be who you must. It's a part of the plan. There will always be consequences for our actions. Choose wisely. Lessons and learning always follow. Finally, remember, it's not all about you. Take care of those wonderful kids first. It will be your duty as a parent. Yes, that's why they call them reproductive organs. THAT'S WHAT THEY DO!!! MAKE KIDS!!
I'm all for taking care of your kids, but the whole "finding your true love" and "god-given chemistry" bit I don't agree with at all. In my opinion, "true love" is a human invention right along with marriage. It's based on the opinions that 1) our lives are predetermined, and 2) that humanity is meant to be monogamous. I don't agree with either of these beliefs.
If every man has a woman out there that he's pre-determined to be with for life and make babies with, where does that leave people who love someone of the same sex? Is their love not "true"? If no, who are you to judge these people? You can say that it's not up to you, it's up to God, but using your same belief of a divine plan, God made those people to be gay, not to reproduce.
Secondly, monogamy is purely a choice, and a terrible one at that. How are you really going to know what you like the best if you haven't tried every option?
 
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