Is prostitution "immoral"?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I know what those terms mean, it's just that the hypothetical has no basis in reality and I won't answer it.

Why does it have no basis in reality? Are you arguing that a middle class white woman would never prostitute herself for a lower class black man?

Edit: if we're going to talk about how things should be (which I think is a good characterization of the discussion in this thread), then you're going to need to be able to compare contrafactual scenarios (i.e. hypotheticals that "have no basis in reality") with the status quo.

 

[McBell]

Why do you think it has no basis in reality? Do you think it impossible for a black guy of small means to want to hire a prostitute? Do you think it impossible that the prostitute would happen to be white and happen to make more money than him? In reality, I think it's probably safe to assume that a prostitute, if they are good, makes more money than your average fast food worker. If a guy who works in fast food were to come upon having enough money to hire a hooker, then what makes it unrealistic that the hooker be white and make more money than him?

um...
because it severely interferes with how she wants the world to be?

 

[Revoltingest]

Blanche duBois: I don't want realism. I want magic! Yes, yes, magic. I try to give that to people. I do misrepresent things. I don't tell truths. I tell what ought to be the truth.

Oh, dear....I don't do magic, religion or superstition.
I recognize that humans have a vast diversity of beliefs, & it is simply impossible for Muslims, Xians, Hindus, Scientologists,
& all to simultaneously be correct about the metaphysical. And even in the physical world, "facts" are really just opinions which
have become very popular & unquestioned. I find certainty to be the mind killer, so all facts should be open for revision.
Newton's laws were overturned by Einstein's work, & I'm sure other revolutions of thought will continue to occur.
Such is the scientific method, which is my favorite for discerning reality. It ain't perfect, but none is more useful.

Like the Ten Commandments? No.

No. They're just words that some guy wrote down.
Some like them. Some even believe they're "true". I see them as just more opinions.

 

[connermt]

Is prostitution "immoral" to you, and why or why not?


To me, it's not. As long as the person doing so has made the choice to do so fully aware of what they are doing and is taking proper precautions against spreading disease, then I don't really see an issue with it. Now, pimping and coerced/forced prostitution is an entirely different thing to me and I do find those wrong. Prostitution itself though, no...I don't believe it to be "immoral".



And yes...I put "immoral" in quotes as I find morality to be highly subjective.

If someone wants to buy/sell that, what's so bad about that?

 

[Drolefille]

This is the oddest twisting of power dynamics and one that further strips pwer from women as it renders them incapable of consent to anyone. It also sounds like a recipe against interracial relationships too.

In this world, a woman cannot work in any role, and nothing short of sexual segregation would fix the issues.

How about instead we empower women , flip this **** around and put the prostitute in charge of her own life. Empowerment means letting people make decisions that we wouldn't make, even if we disagree with something on moral grounds. as someone who talks about power, oppression, and other sorts of issues, I think taking this to this extent is disempowering women.

 

[Sleeppy]

I was reading another thread and the idea just came to me is all. I wondered why some people view certain things pertaining to sex as immoral. Prostitution came to mind. I thought it an interesting subject is all. Obviously some others found it interesting enough to comment on as the thread seems to be prospering well enough. If you don't want to answer the OP and get involved in the discussion then the more apt question should be...what are you doing here?

Here's my answer:

For most people, morality is based in selfishness. Selfishness results from delusion.

 

[Draka]

Here's my answer:

For most people, morality is based in selfishness. Selfishness results from delusion.

That's an answer? To what? Can you simply give a yes or no answer and say why?

 

[Draka]

This is the oddest twisting of power dynamics and one that further strips pwer from women as it renders them incapable of consent to anyone. It also sounds like a recipe against interracial relationships too.

In this world, a woman cannot work in any role, and nothing short of sexual segregation would fix the issues.

How about instead we empower women , flip this **** around and put the prostitute in charge of her own life. Empowerment means letting people make decisions that we wouldn't make, even if we disagree with something on moral grounds. as someone who talks about power, oppression, and other sorts of issues, I think taking this to this extent is disempowering women.

Her argument does seem to want to paint all women as somehow lesser than and therefore always the victim of men. That attitude does far more harm to women than anything else. It sets us up as never being able to be more that just the delicate little used victim of big bad men. It's absurd and insulting when you really see it for what it is. As if a woman can never assert her own power. As if she can never truly be in charge of her own life and her own decisions.

 

[Drolefille]

Her argument does seem to want to paint all women as somehow lesser than and therefore always the victim of men. That attitude does far more harm to women than anything else. It sets us up as never being able to be more that just the delicate little used victim of big bad men. It's absurd and insulting when you really see it for what it is. As if a woman can never assert her own power. As if she can never truly be in charge of her own life and her own decisions.

Well some of what she's saying is true, as far as sociologists are concerned - the world we live in is inherently imbalanced between men and women, but her statements indicate that this is immutable and so anything we do, even if the woman is the actor, falls into that.

I've seen many arguments against prostitution from a feminist perspective, and I understand that, but I think that this takes it to an extreme that it actually removes all agency from women (as well as men, but they're not the focus.)

 

[Manss]

It is a very bad manner and action and it is a motive for god's anger. a woman character thus does disappear

 

[Drolefille]

It is a very bad manner and action and it is a motive for god's anger. a woman character thus does disappear

Which god?

So women who are prostitutes have no character any more?

Does this mean it's ok to abuse them since they're unwomen?

 

[Pegg]

When the man pays the woman's father for her hand in marriage is he not "buying the right to abuse & use her body" which you flat out claim is "disgusting and very immoral"?

wow, so marriage is the equivelant of 'using and abusing'

someone forgot to tell my husband

 

[Pegg]

When the man pays the woman's father for her hand in marriage is he not "buying the right to abuse & use her body" which you flat out claim is "disgusting and very immoral"?

the reason why they put a 'purchase price' on marriage was to ensure the mans intentions were pure.

they were protecting their daughters rights by ensuring the man was sincere and was not going to marry and dump her immediately afterwards. If a man was only after a woman for sexual pleasure, he would not have paid the dowry price....it would have been cheaper for him to pay a prostitute for sex.

So the point of the dowry was to sort out the real men from the abusers.

 

[Pegg]

But because it's marriage, it isn't immoral at all!

thats right because in a proper marriage, the husband and wife love each other and the husband respects his wife and looks after her. She has rights and she is cared for....prostitutes are not.

 

[Pegg]

I have the freedom to go to a strip club and to pay for a lap dance.

And such adventures, for me, are very enjoyable. :yes:

Are such adventures exploitative since I am a woman?

you would be the one doing the exploiting in that case....and thats why if you were giving the lap dance, you would also be the one being exploited.

 

[McBell]

wow, so marriage is the equivelant of 'using and abusing'

someone forgot to tell my husband

You and Cynthia are the ones who agreed that "buying the right to abuse & use her body" is not only "disgusting and very immoral" but also "the same as purchasing slavery".

Your continued avoidance is rather comical.

 

[McBell]

the reason why they put a 'purchase price' on marriage was to ensure the mans intentions were pure.

they were protecting their daughters rights by ensuring the man was sincere and was not going to marry and dump her immediately afterwards. If a man was only after a woman for sexual pleasure, he would not have paid the dowry price....it would have been cheaper for him to pay a prostitute for sex.

So the point of the dowry was to sort out the real men from the abusers.

The reason they paid a "purchase price" was because they thought of woman as property to be bought and sold like livestock.

 

[Pegg]

The reason they paid a "purchase price" was because they thought of woman as property to be bought and sold like livestock.

and you know that because you were living in such a culture at the time?

If that were really true, then why does the mosaic law stipulate a wifes rights within a marriage? Why is she protected under the law?

if what you say is true, then the wife would have no rights, yet that was not the reality among the Isrealites under Gods law. So marriage in Gods view is not a form of prostitution. In my view it is the beginning of equality between a man and woman. The man takes the woman as his own partner...he accepts her as his counterpart, his equal. Howver men who simply pay for the use of a womans body do so because they do not view the woman as their equal...they view them as a product to be bought.

 

[McBell]

and you know that because you were living in such a culture at the time?

If that were really true, then why does the mosaic law stipulate a wifes rights within a marriage? Why is she protected under the law?

if what you say is true, then the wife would have no rights, yet that was not the reality among the Isrealites under Gods law. So marriage in Gods view is not a form of prostitution. In my view it is the beginning of equality between a man and woman. The man takes the woman as his own partner...he accepts her as his counterpart, his equal.

If she was actually considered an equal, why did they need specific laws to protect her?

It was only in the last 80 or so years that women were allowed to own land, vote, etc.

I am not about to take YOUR word for what god thinks.
I shall wait until such time as god actually shows up and speaks for himself.

 

[Pegg]

If she was actually considered an equal, why did they need specific laws to protect her?

because men are imperfect...they dont view woman as their equals. However God does, and that is why laws were put in place. God saw to it that womens rights were written into the mosaic law so that men would not use and abuse them.

It was only in the last 80 or so years that women were allowed to own land, vote, etc.

I am not about to take YOUR word for what god thinks.
I shall wait until such time as god actually shows up and speaks for himself.

just read the mosaic law