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Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
Sorry, i am in school. I do not really have access on this forum all the time. @rosends You say you gave me proof but you did not. There still remains contradictions in the Bible. The verse you told me did not contradict the contradiction i made about the Bible. You then proceed to insult me. How about you give me actual proof instead of claiming you did when you have no evidence.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

The Holy Quran : Chapter 62: Al-Jumu`ah [1]

[62:1]In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[62:2]Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth glorifies Allah, the Sovereign, the Holy, the Mighty, the Wise.
[62:3]He it is Who has raised among the Unletteredpeoplea Messenger from among themselves who recites unto them His Signs, and purifies them, and teaches them the Book and wisdom, although they had been, before, in manifest misguidance;
[62:4]Andamongothers from among them who have not yet joined them. He is the Mighty, the Wise.
[62:5]That is Allah’s grace; He bestows it on whom He pleases; and Allah is the Master of immense grace.
[62:6]The likeness of those who were made to bear thelaw ofTorah, but would not bear it, is as the likeness of an *** carryinga load ofbooks. Evil is the likeness of the people who reject the Signs of Allah. And Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.
[62:7] Say, ‘O ye who are Jews, if you think you are the friends of Allah to the exclusion of all other people, then wish for Death, if indeed you are truthful.’
[62:8]But they will never wish for it, because of that which their hands have sent onbefore them. And Allah knows full well those who do wrong.
[62:9]Say, ‘The Death from which you flee will surely meet you. Then will you be returned unto Him Who knows the unseen and the seen, and He will inform you of what you had been doing.’
[62:10]O ye who believe! when the call is made for Prayer on Friday, hasten to the remembrance of Allah, and leave offallbusiness. That is better for you, if you only knew.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=62


Please prove that the above verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, the reference and providing the link.
Just impossible to do it.
Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality.

In terms of the notion "Koran dated to before Muhamad birth."and some of the pseudo scholars also , link provided by the poster, saying this. Since Muhammad could not have plagiarized Quran from the old scriptures before his own birth, it must be thrashed out by the said pseudo-scholars, pseudo-history and the pseudo-science all together evidencing on top-priority as to from which old scriptures Muhammad recited the above verses verbatim.

Regards
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
Sorry, i am in school. I do not really have access on this forum all the time. @rosends You say you gave me proof but you did not. There still remains contradictions in the Bible. The verse you told me did not contradict the contradiction i made about the Bible. You then proceed to insult me. How about you give me actual proof instead of claiming you did when you have no evidence.
No, you by your own admission just don't understand it.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
Both, Torah and Quran, have equal opportunity in principle to be interpreted reasonably, but the principle/s should be in the same book, not from the outside. Please give principles of interpretation from the Torah.
Regards
Textual interpretation is one thing -- for the generally accepted list of hermeneutics http://judaism.stackexchange.com/qu...ind-examples-of-r-yishmaels-13-talmudic-rules used to derive laws.
However, these are not the methods used in the commentaries I cited. They used textual evidence and pure logic to prove that conclusions drawn were erroneous.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Then what do you not believe that Muslims believe in? Just muslims, not Ahmadi muslims. @paarsurrey
They should obey Allah and Muhammad- Khatam-un-Nabiyyeen and accept the Promised Messiah and Imam-Mahdi:
[4:60]O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey His Messenger and those who are in authority among you. And if you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah andHisMessenger if you are believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is best and most commendable in the end.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=4&verse=59

Please note that what I have colored in magenta.
Regards
 
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paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Textual interpretation is one thing -- for the generally accepted list of hermeneutics http://judaism.stackexchange.com/qu...ind-examples-of-r-yishmaels-13-talmudic-rules used to derive laws.
However, these are not the methods used in the commentaries I cited. They used textual evidence and pure logic to prove that conclusions drawn were erroneous.
G-d's word should not be interpreted from the outside sources, at least the gist of the reasonable argument must be from inside the scripture. I don't agree with you. It in enough prove that Torah got corrupted by narrators/scribes/clergy.
Regards
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
G-d's word should not be interpreted from the outside sources, at least the gist of the reasonable argument must be from inside the scripture. I don't agree with you. It in enough prove that Torah got corrupted by narrators/scribes/clergy.
Regards
What about what I listed and cited isn't from inside the scripture?
 

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
@rosends This does not prove anything. These are beliefs that have no evidence behind them. I dare you to say Islam is still incorrect after this. If you disagree still then you are just arrogant. Proof Islam Is True:
he methods of proving the existence of God with usage of the material provided in the ‘Concept of God in Islam’ to an atheist may satisfy some but not all.

Many atheists demand a scientific proof for the existence of God. I agree that today is the age of science and technology. Let us use scientific knowledge to kill two birds with one stone, i.e. to prove the existence of God and simultaneously prove that the Qur’an is a revelation of God.

If a new object or a machine, which no one in the world has ever seen or heard of before, is shown to an atheist or any person and then a question is asked, " Who is the first person who will be able to provide details of the mechanism of this unknown object? After little bit of thinking, he will reply, ‘the creator of that object.’ Some may say ‘the producer’ while others may say ‘the manufacturer.’ What ever answer the person gives, keep it in your mind, the answer will always be either the creator, the producer, the manufacturer or some what of the same meaning, i.e. the person who has made it or created it. Don’t grapple with words, whatever answer he gives, the meaning will be same, therefore accept it.

SCIENTIFIC FACTS MENTIONED IN THE QUR’AN: for details on this subject please refer to my book, ‘THE QUR’AN AND MODERN SCIENCE – COMPATIBLE OR INCOMPATIBLE?


THEORY OF PROBABILITY



In mathematics there is a theory known as ‘Theory of Probability’. If you have two options, out of which one is right, and one is wrong, the chances that you will chose the right one is half, i.e. one out of the two will be correct. You have 50% chances of being correct. Similarly if you toss a coin the chances that your guess will be correct is 50% (1 out of 2) i.e. 1/2. If you toss a coin the second time, the chances that you will be correct in the second toss is again 50% i.e. half. But the chances that you will be correct in both the tosses is half multiplied by half (1/2 x 1/2) which is equal to 1/4 i.e. 50% of 50% which is equal to 25%. If you toss a coin the third time, chances that you will be correct all three times is (1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2) that is 1/8 or 50% of 50% of 50% that is 12½%.

A dice has got six sides. If you throw a dice and guess any number between 1 to 6, the chances that your guess will be correct is 1/6. If you throw the dice the second time, the chances that your guess will be correct in both the throws is (1/6 x 1/6) which is equal to 1/36. If you throw the dice the third time, the chances that all your three guesses are correct is (1/6 x 1/6 x 1/6) is equal to 1/216 that is less than 0.5 %.

Let us apply this theory of probability to the Qur’an, and assume that a person has guessed all the information that is mentioned in the Qur’an which was unknown at that time. Let us discuss the probability of all the guesses being simultaneously correct.

At the time when the Qur’an was revealed, people thought the world was flat, there are several other options for the shape of the earth. It could be triangular, it could be quadrangular, pentagonal, hexagonal, heptagonal, octagonal, spherical, etc. Lets assume there are about 30 different options for the shape of the earth. The Qur’an rightly says it is spherical, if it was a guess the chances of the guess being correct is 1/30.

The light of the moon can be its own light or a reflected light. The Qur’an rightly says it is a reflected light. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/2 and the probability that both the guesses i.e the earth is spherical and the light of the moon is reflected light is 1/30 x 1/2 = 1/60.

Further, the Qur’an also mentions every living thing is made of water. Every living thing can be made up of either wood, stone, copper, aluminum, steel, silver, gold, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, oil, water, cement, concrete, etc. The options are say about 10,000. The Qur’an rightly says that everything is made up of water. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/10,000 and the probability of all the three guesses i.e. the earth is spherical, light of moon is reflected light and everything is created from water being correct is 1/30 x 1/2 x 1/10,000 = 1/60,000 which is equal to about .0017%.



The Qur’an speaks about hundreds of things that were not known to men at the time of its revelation. Only in three options the result is .0017%. I leave it upto you, to work out the probability if all the hundreds of the unknown facts were guesses, the chances of all of them being correct guesses simultaneously and there being not a single wrong guess. It is beyond human capacity to make all correct guesses without a single mistake, which itself is sufficient to prove to a logical person that the origin of the Qur’an is Divine.


CREATOR IS THE AUTHOR OF THE QUR’AN



The only logical answer to the question as to who could have mentioned all these scientific facts 1400 years ago before they were discovered, is exactly the same answer initially given by the atheist or any person, to the question who will be the first person who will be able to tell the mechanism of the unknown object. It is the ‘CREATOR’, the producer, the Manufacturer of the whole universe and its contents. In the English language He is ‘God’, or more appropriate in the Arabic language, ‘ALLAH’.


QUR’AN IS A BOOK OF SIGNS AND NOT SCIENCE



Let me remind you that the Qur’an is not a book of Science, ‘S-C-I-E-N-C-E’ but a book of Signs ‘S-I-G-N-S’ i.e. a book of ayaats. The Qur’an contains more than 6,000 ayaats, i.e. ‘signs’, out of which more than a thousand speak about Science. I am not trying to prove that the Qur’an is the word of God using scientific knowledge as a yard stick because any yardstick is supposed to be more superior than what is being checked or verified. For us Muslims the Qur’an is the Furqan i.e. criteria to judge right from wrong and the ultimate yardstick which is more superior to scientific knowledge.

But for an educated man who is an atheist, scientific knowledge is the ultimate test which he believes in. We do know that science many a times takes ‘U’ turns, therefore I have restricted the examples only to scientific facts which have sufficient proof and evidence and not scientific theories based on assumptions. Using the ultimate yardstick of the atheist, I am trying to prove to him that the Qur’an is the word of God and it contains the scientific knowledge which is his yardstick which was discovered recently, while the Qur’an was revealed 1400 year ago. At the end of the discussion, we both come to the same conclusion that God though superior to science, is not incompatible with it.


SCIENCE IS ELIMINATING MODELS OF GOD BUT NOT GOD



Francis Bacon, the famous philosopher, has rightly said that a little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God. Scientists today are eliminating models of God, but they are not eliminating God. If you translate this into Arabic, it is La illaha illal la, There is no god, (god with a small ‘g’ that is fake god) but God (with a capital ‘G’).

Surah Fussilat:

"Soon We will show them our signs in the (farthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?"

[Al-Quran 41:53]

Reference: http://www.irf.net/irf/comparativereligion/index.htm
 
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Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
@rosends Now tell me how it copies any other scriptures and tell me how it is not the truth.
 
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Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
Allah created every [living] creature from water. Some of them go on their bellies, some of them on two legs, and some on four. Allah creates whatever He wills. Allah has power over all things. (Qur'an, 24:45)

Do those who disbelieve not see that the heavens and the earth were sewn together and then We unstitched them and that We made from water every living thing? So will they not believe? (Qur'an, 21:30)

And it is He Who created human beings from water and then gave them relations by blood and marriage. Your Lord is All-Powerful. (Qur'an, 25:54)
 

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
"See ye not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another, And made the moon a (reflecting) light in their midst, and made the sun as a Glorious Lamp?" [Quran, 71:15-16]

"Did you see how Allah created seven heavens, and and above the other, and made in them the moon a light and the sun a Lamp?" [Quran, 78:12-13]
 

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
@rosends “And the earth, moreover, hath He made egg shaped.”
[Al-Qur’an 79:30]
 
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