Is the hijab unnecessary?

[TashaN]

I have always wanted to ask this question. Do non-Muslims here seriously believe that the Muslim women here in RF are brainwashed and oppressed by the male members of their families?

I'm really disappointed! I thought by coming to RF, people who live in the West will teach me how to be civilized, instead, they keep telling me that they are no different than Saudi Arabia, the place where i live.

My dream to be free, think free, wear freely, express myself freely has vanished!!! I have been deceived. There is no such place called the free world or the civilized world. They are all the same. But you know, at least the third world don't brag about their superior values, they are willing to progress, unlike the so called free Western world which keep bragging about how free and superior it’s.

 

[Tiapan]

They are brain washed by a middle ages culture not specifically the males of that society, although it is the males that perpetuate it. Just like Christians of old.

Cheers

 

[kai]

I have always wanted to ask this question. Do non-Muslims here seriously believe that the Muslim women here in RF are brainwashed and oppressed by the male members of their families?
Not the ones here TashaN, all muslim women here have strong opinions, and dont seem the type to be dominated to a degree ,( i am taking it for granted their menfolk know they come here)
I'm really disappointed! I thought by coming to RF, people who live in the West will teach me how to be civilized, instead, they keep telling me that they are no different than Saudi Arabia, the place where i live.
you cant teach people to be civilised in fact what is civilised? to whos standard?
My dream to be free, think free, wear freely, express myself freely has vanished!!! I have been deceived. There is no such place called the free world or the civilized world. They are all the same. But you know, at least the third world don't brag about their superior values, they are willing to progress, unlike the so called free Western world which keep bragging about how free and superior it’s.

as a man you are much more entitled to wear what you like without judgements being made, even in the west.

 

[Sunstone]

If a woman wants to wear a hijab, that's her choice to make -- and not mine.

 

[kai]

If a woman wants to wear a hijab, that's her choice to make -- and not mine.

Thats my opinion too! as long as its her choice thats fine by me.

 

[Smoke]

But you know, at least the third world don't brag about their superior values, they are willing to progress, unlike the so called free Western world which keep bragging about how free and superior it’s.

There are those here who brag almost incessantly about the superior values of Muslim countries; I'm surprised you haven't been reading the forums more.

 

[TashaN]

They are brain washed by a middle ages culture not specifically the males of that society, although it is the males that perpetuate it. Just like Christians of old.

Cheers

You don't feel ashamed to say proudly how brainwashed those intelligent Muslim women are, but in Australia you find it so hard to accept that naked “piece of meat” women there are brainwashed by a non-religious community’s continuous propaganda. So sad! I guess Saudi Arabia have to save women in Australia from being too exposed, blindly following this modern dangerous culture which been supported by the devil to deceive women.

 

[Sunstone]

Thats my opinion too! as long as its her choice thats fine by me.

Right.

 

[TashaN]

The devil is behind all secular movements. We should liberate brainwashed Western women from these secular values, and they shall cover themselves up again!!! Amen. :shout

 

[kai]

Bikini or hijab? , bikini and hijab at the same time? its up to them as far as i am concerned. Like i asked before what has a hijab to do with modesty?


is this a hijab?

 

[Sunstone]

For most of us, we prefer whatever we were raised up with. If we were raised up with hijabs, we prefer hijabs. If we were raised up with shorts, we prefer shorts. That's human nature and it does not seem likely to change.

 

[Zhakir]

For most of us, we prefer whatever we were raised up with. If we were raised up with hijabs, we prefer hijabs. If we were raised up with shorts, we prefer shorts. That's human nature and it does not seem likely to change.

We should use our minds to realize what's right and what's wrong,and people change,their behavior may change and their beliefs as well once they find the truth.

The status of women in Islam is often the target of attacks in the secular media. The ‘hijaab’ or the Islamic dress is cited by many as an example of the ‘subjugation’ of women under Islamic law. Before we analyze the reasoning behind the religiously mandated ‘hijaab’, let us first study the status of women in societies before the advent of Islam

1. In the past women were degraded and used as objects of lust
The following examples from history amply illustrate the fact that the status of women in earlier civilizations was very low to the extent that they were denied basic human dignity:

1. Babylonian Civilization:
   The women were degraded and were denied all rights under the Babylonian law. If a man murdered a woman, instead of him being punished, his wife was put to death.
2. Greek Civilization:
   Greek Civilization is considered the most glorious of all ancient civilizations. Under this very ‘glorious’ system, women were deprived of all rights and were looked down upon. In Greek mythology, an ‘imaginary woman’ called ‘Pandora’ is the root cause of misfortune of human beings. The Greeks considered women to be subhuman and inferior to men. Though chastity of women was precious, and women were held in high esteem, the Greeks were later overwhelmed by ego and sexual perversions. Prostitution became a regular practice amongst all classes of Greek society.
3. Roman Civilization:
   When Roman Civilization was at the zenith of its ‘glory’, a man even had the right to take the life of his wife. Prostitution and nudity were common amongst the Romans.
4. Egyptian Civilization:
   The Egyptian considered women evil and as a sign of a devil.
5. Pre-Islamic Arabia:
   Before Islam spread in Arabia, the Arabs looked down upon women and very often when a female child was born, she was buried alive.

2. Islam uplifted women and gave them equality and expects them to maintain their status.
Islam uplifted the status of women and granted them their just rights 1400 years ago. Islam expects women to maintain their status.
Hijaab for men
People usually only discuss ‘hijaab’ in the context of women. However, in the Glorious Qur’an, Allah (swt) first mentions ‘hijaab’ for men before ‘hijaab’ for the women. The Qur’an mentions in Surah Noor:
"Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do."
[Al-Qur’an 24:30]
The moment a man looks at a woman and if any brazen or unashamed thought comes to his mind, he should lower his gaze.
Hijaab for women.
The next verse of Surah Noor, says:
" And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands’ fathers, their sons..."
[Al-Qur’an 24:31]

3. Six criteria for Hijaab.
According to Qur’an and Sunnah there are basically six criteria for observing hijaab:

1. Extent:
   
   The first criterion is the extent of the body that should be covered. This is different for men and women. The extent of covering obligatory on the male is to cover the body at least from the navel to the knees. For women, the extent of covering obligatory is to cover the complete body except the face and the hands upto the wrist. If they wish to, they can cover even these parts of the body. Some scholars of Islam insist that the face and the hands are part of the obligatory extent of ‘hijaab’.
   All the remaining five criteria are the same for men and women.
2. The clothes worn should be loose and should not reveal the figure.
3. The clothes worn should not be transparent such that one can see through them.
4. The clothes worn should not be so glamorous as to attract the opposite sex.
5. The clothes worn should not resemble that of the opposite sex.
6. The clothes worn should not resemble that of the unbelievers i.e. they should not wear clothes that are specifically identities or symbols of the unbelievers’ religions.

4. Hijaab includes conduct and behaviour among other things
Complete ‘hijaab’, besides the six criteria of clothing, also includes the moral conduct, behaviour, attitude and intention of the individual. A person only fulfilling the criteria of ‘hijaab’ of the clothes is observing ‘hijaab’ in a limited sense. ‘Hijaab’ of the clothes should be accompanied by ‘hijaab’ of the eyes, ‘hijaab’ of the heart, ‘hijaab’ of thought and ‘hijaab’ of intention. It also includes the way a person walks, the way a person talks, the way he behaves, etc.

5. Hijaab prevents molestation
The reason why Hijaab is prescribed for women is mentioned in the Qur’an in the following verses of Surah Al-Ahzab:
"O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad); that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
[Al-Qur’an 33:59]
The Qur’an says that Hijaab has been prescribed for the women so that they are recognized as modest women and this will also prevent them from being molested.

6. Example of twin sisters
Suppose two sisters who are twins, and who are equally beautiful, walk down the street. One of them is attired in the Islamic hijaab i.e. the complete body is covered, except for the face and the hands up to the wrists. The other sister is wearing western clothes, a mini skirt or shorts. Just around the corner there is a hooligan or ruffian who is waiting for a catch, to tease a girl. Whom will he tease? The girl wearing the Islamic Hijaab or the girl wearing the skirt or the mini? Naturally he will tease the girl wearing the skirt or the mini. Such dresses are an indirect invitation to the opposite sex for teasing and molestation. The Qur’an rightly says that hijaab prevents women from being molested.

7. Capital punishment for the rapists
Under the Islamic shariah, a man convicted of having raped a woman, is given capital punishment. Many are astonished at this ‘harsh’ sentence. Some even say that Islam is a ruthless, barbaric religion! I have asked a simple question to hundreds of non-Muslim men. Suppose, God forbid, someone rapes your wife, your mother or your sister. You are made the judge and the rapist is brought in front of you. What punishment would you give him? All of them said they would put him to death. Some went to the extent of saying they would torture him to death. To them I ask, if someone rapes your wife or your mother you want to put him to death. But if the same crime is committed on somebody else’s wife or daughter you say capital punishment is barbaric. Why should there be double standards?

8. Western society falsely claims to have uplifted women
Western talk of women’s liberalization is nothing but a disguised form of exploitation of her body, degradation of her soul, and deprivation of her honour. Western society claims to have ‘uplifted’ women. On the contrary it has actually degraded them to the status of concubines, mistresses and society butterflies who are mere tools in the hands of pleasure seekers and sex marketeers, hidden behind the colourful screen of ‘art’ and ‘culture’.

9. USA has one of the highest rates of rape
United States of America is supposed to be one of the most advanced countries of the world. It also has one of the highest rates of rape in any country in the world. According to a FBI report, in the year 1990, every day on an average 1756 cases of rape were committed in U.S.A alone. Later another report said that on an average everyday 1900 cases of rapes are committed in USA. The year was not mentioned. May be it was 1992 or 1993. May be the Americans got ‘bolder’ in the following years.
Consider a scenario where the Islamic hijaab is followed in America. Whenever a man looks at a woman and any brazen or unashamed thought comes to his mind, he lowers his gaze. Every woman wears the Islamic hijaab, that is the complete body is covered except the face and the hands upto the wrist. After this if any man commits rape he is given capital punishment. I ask you, in such a scenario, will the rate of rape in America increase, will it remain the same, or will it decrease?

10. Implementation of Islamic Shariah will reduce the rate of rapes
Naturally as soon as Islamic Shariah is implemented positive results will be inevitable. If Islamic Shariah is implemented in any part of the world, whether it is America or Europe, society will breathe easier. Hijaab does not degrade a woman but uplifts a woman and protects her modesty and chastity.

 

[Sunstone]

8. Western society falsely claims to have uplifted women Western talk of women’s liberalization is nothing but a disguised form of exploitation of her body, degradation of her soul, and deprivation of her honour. Western society claims to have ‘uplifted’ women. On the contrary it has actually degraded them to the status of concubines, mistresses and society butterflies who are mere tools in the hands of pleasure seekers and sex marketeers, hidden behind the colourful screen of ‘art’ and ‘culture’.

Your point is such a gross misrepresentation of the status of women in the West. You are at grave danger of loosing what creditability you have unless you can come up with something more truthful than what you have come up with.

 

[kai]

Implementation of Islamic Shariah will reduce the rate of rapes
Naturally as soon as Islamic Shariah is implemented positive results will be inevitable. If Islamic Shariah is implemented in any part of the world, whether it is America or Europe, society will breathe easier. Hijaab does not degrade a woman but uplifts a woman and protects her modesty and chastity.
__________________



do you have any evidence of a society that was not under sharia , then came under sharia and rapes fell as a direct result? and please is this a hijab?

 

[Breathe]

In Greek mythology, an ‘imaginary woman’ called ‘Pandora’ is the root cause of misfortune of human beings.

Sadly, that's not too far away from the Abrahamic faith's concept - a woman ate the fruit and thus disobeyed God at the behest of a snake/Satan, and was responsible for ridding us of paradise, and bringing labour pain on women forever, etc etc.

Point is, Abrahamic religions also can be seen to have quite a "low" view of women sometimes, too - though this is not the thread for such discussions.

Prostitution and nudity were common amongst the Romans.

Prostitution yuck, but when it comes to nudity, so what?

6. Example of twin sisters
<<snip>> Whom will he tease? The girl wearing the Islamic Hijaab or the girl wearing the skirt or the mini? Naturally he will tease the girl wearing the skirt or the mini.

Generally I would agree with you - although I have seen an incident contrary where a man harassed a hijabi and squeezed her bum (I think) but he didn't do that to her friend or sister or something who was wearing clothing that was a bit um.. more revealing - but then he laughed and left. Different strokes for different folks I guess? It doesn't change the fact that anyone who does that to an unwilling woman is a scumbag and needs a slap in the face, though - hijabi or not.

8. Western society falsely claims to have uplifted women
Western talk of women&#8217;s liberalization is nothing but a disguised form of exploitation of her body, degradation of her soul, and deprivation of her honour. <<snip>>

I agree with Sunstone on this one, he put it better than I could have.

 

[Bismillah]

Please the OP here asks if hijabs are necessary or not. Muslim edict places upon women the need to be modest in public to curb any sexual interests that could lead to offensive acts such as adultery. Many societies took it upon themselves to judge the extant of "modesty". It is to be noted that the veil did not come into being until the Abbasid dynasty in Arabia. In other Muslim societies, notably in areas located in South East Asia the hijab was unheard of.

Many Muslim women wear the hijab for personal reasons. Maybe because it is traditional in their family to wear the veil and they see nothing wrong with it. Maybe it is to further their spiritual beliefs. In some cultures the hijab is worn as a traditional accompaniment to extravagant dresses. In these cases the hijab is not meant to be worn, merely to be draped around the shoulders to complement the dress and beauty of the wear herself. If the particular person encounters a religious occasion (i.e a prayer) she may take it upon herself to adorn the scarf and use it as a functional veil.

The truth is that the Hijab is a cultural icon. It is rooted in the cultures of many women from different backgrounds and is used in varying degrees. To question a women choosing to wear one is akin to asking a Catholic why she wears a cross.

Kai- Yes that is a Hijab or veil. As you can see it is a decorated scarf and is used more for enhancing the beauty of the wearer, then to promote strict religious beliefs. A different type of beauty then wearing a short skirt, G-string, and a tank top wouldn't you say?

 

[Bismillah]

What I see in the Islamic ghetto of Coburg are many covered people who while they live in Australia believe Allah is the Law, while the rest of us in Australia are Australians following Australian law. It says to me these are not Australians. Their culture directly conflicts with our culture. We have just taken 100 years to get rid of the Christians here and now we have the even more dogmatic goat herders moving in.

The breeding rate of Muslims in this environment of low mortality is leading to a population explosion. This is a threat to our culture. The Hajib is a slap in the face to Australian culture, as an expression of saying we don't care about your laws we are better than you. It also applies to the Hasidic Jews ponytails with bola hats. Such conservatism in a liberal secular democracy, is a blight on our Culture.

All are welcome to become Australians but leave the culture you have just escaped from in your home land, and dont re-establish it here, we don't want to repeat your mistakes.

Quoted for you poor show of ignorance and deeply racists fears. You frequently use the possessive "we" as if speaking for "true" Australians. Tell me what do the Aborigines think of you?

 

[Zhakir]

Your point is such a gross misrepresentation of the status of women in the West. You are at grave danger of loosing what creditability you have unless you can come up with something more truthful than what you have come up with.

You see just by saying that this thing is wrong and that is right-without explaining why-we can get to no where,this is surely what happens in the western society.
with all due respect,these points are not misrepresentation
-According to a FBI report, in the year 1990, every day on an average 1756 cases of rape were committed in U.S.A alone. Later another report said that on an average everyday 1900 cases of rapes are committed in USA. The year was not mentioned. May be it was 1992 or 1993. May be the Americans got &#8216;bolder&#8217; in the following years. Reality,and not just my point
Consider a scenario where the Islamic hijaab is followed in America. Whenever a man looks at a woman and any brazen or unashamed thought comes to his mind, he lowers his gaze. Every woman wears the Islamic hijaab, that is the complete body is covered except the face and the hands upto the wrist. After this if any man commits rape he is given capital punishment. I ask you, in such a scenario, will the rate of rape in America increase, will it remain the same, or will it decrease?

-it has actually degraded them to the status of concubines, mistresses and society butterflies who are mere tools in the hands of pleasure seekers and sex marketeers, hidden behind the colourful screen of &#8216;art&#8217; and &#8216;culture&#8217;

Women in advertising Sex in advertising - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't understand how do you deny these,others normaly do not deny(criticism ) Sex in advertising - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
<H1>the same opinion of non-Muslim criticism to such christian and secular societies is wide spread

Article By: Status of women in Christian Society - Status of Women Throughout the Ages - WomenInIslam.ws

Status of women in Christian Society

Christian priests went to the extreme of considering the woman as the cause of "original sin" and the source of all catastrophes from which the entire world has suffered. For this very reason, the physical relationship between man and woman has traditionally been labeled as "filthy" or "dirty" even if it were officially done and performed within a legitimate marriage contract. Saint Trotolian says:

"Woman is the Satan's pathway to a man's heart. Woman pushes man to the "Cursed Tree." Woman violates God's laws and distorts his picture (i.e. man's picture).

Wieth Knudesen, a Danish writer, illustrated the woman's status in the middle ages saying:

"According to the Catholic faith, which considered the woman as a second class citizen, very little care and attention was given to her."

In 1586 a conference was held in France to decide whether women should be considered as human beings or not. The conference came to a conclusion that:

"Woman is a human being, but she is created to serve man."

Thus, the conference approved the rights for women as human beings, a matter that was previously in doubt and undecided! Moreover, those who attended the conference did not decide on full rights for the woman, but rather; she was a follower of man and a maidservant to him with no personal rights. This decision was in effect until 1938, when, for the first time, a decree wasissued to abrogate all the laws that forbid a woman from conducting her own financial affairs directly and opening a bank account in her own name.

Europeans continued to discriminate against women and deprive them of their rights throughout the Middle-Ages. It is also surprising to know that English laws turned a blind eye to the selling of one's wife! The rift between the sexes, men and women, continued to increase, so much so that women became fully under the control of men. Women were stripped completely of all their rights and whatever they owned.

All that a woman owned belonged to her husband. For instance, until very recently women, according to the French law, were not considered capable of making their own financial decisions in their private ownership. We can read article 217 of the French law that states:

"A married woman has no right to grant, transfer, bond, own with or without payment, without her husband's participation in the sale contract, or his written consent to it, regardless of whether the marriage contract stipulated that there should be a complete separation between the husband's and wife's possessions and ownership of various items."

Despite all amendments and modifications, which occurred in these French laws, we can still see how these laws are affecting married French women. It is a form of civilized slavery. Furthermore, a married woman loses her surname (family's name) as soon as she enters into a marriage contract. A married woman shall carry the family name of her husband. This, of course, indicates that a married woman will only be a follower of her husband and she will even lose her personal identity.

Bernard Shaw, the well-known English writer says:

"The moment a woman marries; all her personal possessions become her husband's in accordance to the English law."

Lastly, there is one more injustice that has been imposed upon the woman in the Western society which is that a marriage bond is made to last forever, in accordance with legal and religiousteachings. There is no right of divorce (according to Catholicism, at least). Husband and wife are only separated from each other physically. This separation may have contributed to all sorts of social decay and corruption, such as having affairs, mistresses, boyfriends, girlfriends, as well as possibly prostitution, and homosexual and lesbian relations. Moreover, a surviving widow is not given the chance to remarry and lead a normal married life after the death of her husband.

No doubt, what is called modern western civilization and which endeavors to dominate the globe, is indebted to the Greek and Roman traditions for its civil foundations, and to the Judaic-Christian traditions for its ideological and religious foundations. The abuses mentioned above collectively led, due to gradual and eventual effects of technological and social modernization, to the expected and natural reaction: movements demanding women's rights in the society, led by thinkers, educators, lobbyists, and human rights and women right's activists.

The pendulum was set to swing in the other direction, and they demanded absolute equal rights and liberation from male chauvinism and abuses. In many of the modern secular societies, women are indeed given numerous equal rights, but at the same time, equality has exposed them to the molestation and double standards rampant in the immoral materialistic culture that markets her as an object of sexual desire, for sale, contract or rent. The ensuing breakdown of the family unit, and the widespread sexual immorality, abortion, homosexuality, and criminal deviancy from sexual liberation, has led to some counter reactions in the society, especially from the religious conservatives, but apparently, the trends are too strong to turn the tide back.

In this global context, and from this historical legacy, we will present the salient features of women's rights in Islam and shed light on some common misconceptions in order to show the superiority of following Allah's guidance rather than men and women guiding each other by whim and desire.

Let me clearify,most realize that this is not a misrepresentation,it is the reality,and it's so clear and easy for any to show,you can't deny it just by saying that it's a misrepresentation.

Peace be on all.

 

[kai]

Please the OP here asks if hijabs are necessary or not. Muslim edict places upon women the need to be modest in public to curb any sexual interests that could lead to offensive acts such as adultery. Many societies took it upon themselves to judge the extant of "modesty". It is to be noted that the veil did not come into being until the Abbasid dynasty in Arabia. In other Muslim societies, notably in areas located in South East Asia the hijab was unheard of.

Many Muslim women wear the hijab for personal reasons. Maybe because it is traditional in their family to wear the veil and they see nothing wrong with it. Maybe it is to further their spiritual beliefs. In some cultures the hijab is worn as a traditional accompaniment to extravagant dresses. In these cases the hijab is not meant to be worn, merely to be draped around the shoulders to complement the dress and beauty of the wear herself. If the particular person encounters a religious occasion (i.e a prayer) she may take it upon herself to adorn the scarf and use it as a functional veil.

The truth is that the Hijab is a cultural icon. It is rooted in the cultures of many women from different backgrounds and is used in varying degrees. To question a women choosing to wear one is akin to asking a Catholic why she wears a cross.

Kai- Yes that is a Hijab or veil. As you can see it is a decorated scarf and is used more for enhancing the beauty of the wearer, then to promote strict religious beliefs. A different type of beauty then wearing a short skirt, G-string, and a tank top wouldn't you say?

Thank you Abibi .

 

[kai]

You see just by saying that this thing is wrong and that is right-without explaining why-we can get to no where,this is surely what happens in the western society.
with all due respect,these points are not misrepresentation
-According to a FBI report, in the year 1990, every day on an average 1756 cases of rape were committed in U.S.A alone. Later another report said that on an average everyday 1900 cases of rapes are committed in USA. The year was not mentioned. May be it was 1992 or 1993. May be the Americans got ‘bolder’ in the following years. Reality,and not just my point
Consider a scenario where the Islamic hijaab is followed in America. Whenever a man looks at a woman and any brazen or unashamed thought comes to his mind, he lowers his gaze. Every woman wears the Islamic hijaab, that is the complete body is covered except the face and the hands upto the wrist. After this if any man commits rape he is given capital punishment. I ask you, in such a scenario, will the rate of rape in America increase, will it remain the same, or will it decrease?

-it has actually degraded them to the status of concubines, mistresses and society butterflies who are mere tools in the hands of pleasure seekers and sex marketeers, hidden behind the colourful screen of ‘art’ and ‘culture’

Women in advertising Sex in advertising - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't understand how do you deny these,others normaly do not deny(criticism ) Sex in advertising - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
<H1>the same opinion of non-Muslim criticism to such christian and secular societies is wide spread

Article By: Status of women in Christian Society - Status of Women Throughout the Ages - WomenInIslam.ws



Let me clearify,most realize that this is not a misrepresentation,it is the reality,and it's so clear and easy for any to show,you can't deny it just by saying that it's a misrepresentation.

Peace be on all.

do you have anything up to date and secular?