Is The Political Future Of Elizabeth Warren Over?

[columbus]

So if I say I’m black then I’m black ?

Are you completely making it up? Or did your elderly relatives tell you that you have a black ancestor?

The difference is important.
Tom

 

[Watchmen]

I know enough to know that the legal definition of fraud isn't what you said it was.

You know nothing.

Here’s your education: Civil Jury Instructions - jury instructions

Knock yourself out.

 

[Shad]

What did she claim about her Grandmother specifically?

The claim was her grandmother was Native American (full).

Warren's case really highlights silly ideas America has and has had about race.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

She claimed her grandmother was the link when it really goes back 6 to 10 generation using South American samples. Do the math. Heck do the math on the grandmother. She used the one drop rule....as a Dem.

And we're back to my earlier comment about gatekeeping. If she has native American ancestry through her grandmother, I'm really not seeing the problem, personally. I mean, if she explicitly claimed to be full blooded native American when she knew she wasn't, that would be different. If she made fraudulent claims for assistance or special consideration she wasn't entitled to, that would absolutely be an issue. If she grew up hearing her grandmother talking about being Indian and ran with the family legend, though, well, I don't see the harm, myself. Like I said, I find the American obsession with racial gatekeeping bizarre.

 

[Shad]

I'd expect Democrats to find her pretense worse than blackface
because she's appropriating another's race & culture to become
a "toofer", ie, both female & Amerindian, which has great value
to a university trumpeting its diversity.

Maybe. Many can simply invoke intersectionality.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

You know nothing.

Here’s your education: Civil Jury Instructions - jury instructions

Knock yourself out.

A. Not a legal dictionary.
B. I'm not going to read the entire thing looking for something to back your claim up. Don't Gish Gallop me.

Your claimed definition of fraud is wrong, you know it, and now you're trying to avoid admitting it.

So, not only are you arguing in bad faith, you're also being needlessly rude and disrespectful. 3 strikes.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

The claim was her grandmother was Native American (full).

Warren's case really highlights silly ideas America has and has had about race.

That's rather my point.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Maybe. Many can simply invoke intersectionality.

I'm not sure what you mean?

 

[Shad]

And we're back to my earlier comment about gatekeeping. If she has native American ancestry through her grandmother, I'm really not seeing the problem, personally. I mean, if she explicitly claimed to be full blooded native American when she knew she wasn't, that would be different.

You are confused here. Her claim was her grandmother was Native (full). She wasn't. Besides was is 1/4 enough to claim a race in comparison to 3/4? Basic math here. Ergo this is the one drop rule. A rule she followed but not with the same intent such a rule was created for.

If she made fraudulent claims for assistance or special consideration she wasn't entitled to, that would absolutely be an issue.

This is the sticking issue. We really do not know. However she was paraded around by some organizations she was working with and employed by as "The first woman of colour". Something to consider.

If she grew up hearing her grandmother talking about being Indian and ran with the family legend, though, well, I don't see the harm, myself. Like I said, I find the American obsession with racial gatekeeping bizarre.

Then you should have an issue with Warren as she used that very system you think is bizarre. Again do the math. 1/4 vs 3/4. 1/6 to 1/10 to 5/6 and 9/10. So why did she use the one drop rule?

 

[Shad]

I'm not sure what you mean?

The concept or the application in this threads context?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

You are confused here. Her claim was her grandmother was Native (full). She wasn't. Besides was is 1/4 enough to claim a race in comparison to 3/4? Basic math here. Ergo this is the one drop rule. A rule she followed but not with the same intent such a rule was created for.




This is the sticking issue. We really do not know. However she was paraded around by some organizations she was working with and employed by as "The first woman of colour". Something to consider.




Then you should have an issue with Warren as she used that very system you think is bizarre. Again do the math. 1/4 vs 3/4. 1/6 to 1/10 to 5/6 and 9/10. So why did she use the one drop rule?

I think we may be talking at cross purposes.

 

[Shad]

That's rather my point.

I think we may be talking at cross purposes.

Yes I know. The only difference here is I am blasting Warren for using the race system while you think it doesn't matter. She used the system, she is part of the problem in my view.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

The concept or the application in this threads context?

The way you were using it in context of the thread.

 

[Shad]

The way you were using it in context of the thread.

Warren is a woman of mixed background in a position of power in a "man's world". She is not in the same tier thus gets slack.

*Keep in mind I do not think this is a gross misconduct by Warren so she is still far above the average politician regarding ethics. After all Trump admitted to gaming many systems during the campaign.*

 

[Watchmen]

A. Not a legal dictionary.
B. I'm not going to read the entire thing looking for something to back your claim up. Don't Gish Gallop me.

Your claimed definition of fraud is wrong, you know it, and now you're trying to avoid admitting it.

So, not only are you arguing in bad faith, you're also being needlessly rude and disrespectful. 3 strikes.

A. It’s better than a legal dictionary and your comment reveals you don’t know what you’re talking about.

B. I already told you to look at the 1900 series. Did you? It appears not.

C. I win. You lose.

Bye.

 

[columbus]

She used the system, she is part of the problem.

Trump used the Electoral College system to force his crap down the throats of the US public! I don't remember you objecting to that.
Tom

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Yes I know. The only difference here is I am blasting Warren for using the race system while you think it doesn't matter. She used the system, she is part of the problem.

Without evidence she materially benefited from something she wasn't entitled to, I really don't think it does matter. I don't think of ancestry in terms of exact fractions or percentages. Like I say, that's a very American thing. Here, people tend to say "I have an Irish ancestor" or "my grandmother was Chinese" without worrying too much about whether the relevant ancestor was full blood or not.

So it may be cultural, but to me this whole Warren thing seems like a beat up. If she has ANY Native American ancestry, I'm happy to call her Native American if that's what she wants to he thought of as.

 

[Watchmen]

Trump used the Electoral College system to force his crap down the throats of the US public! I don't remember you objecting to that.
Tom

So silly

 

[Revoltingest]

Trump used the Electoral College system to force his crap down the throats of the US public! I don't remember you objecting to that.
Tom

Every candidate tries the same.
The only difference is that some win, & some lose.
It could've easily been the other way around, with
Hillary being the one doing the forcing.

 

[columbus]

Every candidate tries the same.
The only difference is that some win, & some lose.

But there's also the hypocrisy of people who are fine with Trump using "the system" to subvert democracy and then going on and on about an elected official who said something she believed to be true because her Mom told her it was.
Tom