Is there a Creator?

[Ben Dhyan]

For almost a hundred years the concept of time has stopped being a concept and became an integral part of our understanding of the universe.

Hi freethinker, how can a concept stop being a concept?

 

[Jeremiah]

Time has to be subjective because the experience of time cannot be measured and is ultimately relative to objects that we perceive in our consciousness. Consciousness itself is objective yes, but time and the objects within consciousness are not.

"Time has to be subjective"

It is fact that "this" was typed before "this". All the words, before, after, earlier, later, etc., yes those are subjective interpretations. Time being linear is subjective, but "this" still came before "this" and that is not subjective. "Now" may be the only extant but "now" is only "now" because of "before" and there was a "before"; yesterday did exist.

 

[ManTimeForgot]

I think an error of some sort occurs when we posit God as being outside of creation. I must say here, risking the charge of being Islamophobic, that Islam alone make the separation between Creator and Created absolute. Christianity, with Jesus' "I and my Father are one" closes the gap. Hinduism, it alone has unabashedly talked about non-duality.

What if "creation" and "God" were indistinct (I am guessing my logic on the thread I linked you to earlier did not strike you?)? What if difference wasn't the same as separation? Creator and created absolutely different but not separate.

And what sort of errors do you suppose can happen when posited outside creation?

MTF

 

[zenzero]

Friend JustWondering,

Have you experienced a moment of timelessness? Have you been able to experience moments in what most of us call the past?

Kindly understand that what is referred to as timelessness then the individual who experiences is no more only CONSCIOUSNESS is.
Then, can anyone claim that he has experienced timelessness?
No, impossible.
Once, even for a brief split second an individual loses his *SELF* the individual merges with that universal and is one or simply consciousness; thereafter the journey starts and so some call it *TWICE BORN* also termed *SECOND LIFE* in sanatan dharma.
The journey starts where the individual starts losing that *I* completes when the *I* is no more which is also the stage labelled as *nirvana* or complete samadhi in sanatan dharma.

It is also true that being born as human we cannot escape the reality of time of past and future. The present is only a culmination of all past actions/karma BUT those who grow with the understanding of the present slowly forgets the past and future as they are a hindrance to the flowering.
Yes, surely like everyone do have a past of which awareness is there but not of relevance.
Love & rgds

 

[zenzero]

Friend Venu,

Your comments always have a ring of authority about it.

Am myself still trying to find that individual; if you find him,thrash him first and then do bring him, as he would need more beatings with the *stick*.

Love & rgds

 

[Willamena]

Couldn’t existence have always existed?

Yes, but the question remains. Perhaps bringing it nearer might make it clearer: what makes existence? Even though it may always have been, why is it here at all?

Those who believe in God say God always existed and would call us insane to ask who made God.

Well, I wouldn't ask. I'm more curious as to what makes existence.

Another question would be, to whom does existence exist? Obviously not for a dead man. We become aware of existence because we are alive. Could this entity called ‘life’ be what existence is all about?

You may be onto something.

If there a time ever when things are not? The essence remains, only the expressions change.

You mentioned one above: the time when "life" (existence to whomever) is not.

 

[OGMIOS6666]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]All praise is for God, the Lord of all domains of existence, [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]The Compassionate, the Merciful,[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]Master of the Day of Judgment.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]Thee alone do we serve, and Thee alone do we ask for help.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]Show us the straight path,[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]The path of those whom Thou hast blest-- [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1](Of those) who have never incurred Thy displeasure, and have not gone astray.[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]All praise is for God, the Lord of all domains of existence, [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]The Compassionate, the Merciful,[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]Master of the Day of Judgment.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]Thee alone do we serve, and Thee alone do we ask for help.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]Show us the straight path,[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]The path of those whom Thou hast blest-- [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1](Of those) who have never incurred Thy displeasure, and have not gone astray.[/SIZE][/FONT]

Yet more drivel from someone mindlessly walking their dogma through someones yard without a pooper-scooper. This is a debate forum. Preach elsewhere,

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

"Time has to be subjective"

It is fact that "this" was typed before "this". All the words, before, after, earlier, later, etc., yes those are subjective interpretations. Time being linear is subjective, but "this" still came before "this" and that is not subjective. "Now" may be the only extant but "now" is only "now" because of "before" and there was a "before"; yesterday did exist.

Truly, there are no facts. Everything except selfhood, or existence, is ultimately subjective. There is no "that" (a past event) because when you refer to "that", what you are really doing is making a mental projection of a "then" now. It all flows out of the self, now. You didn't know what you know now "then" because you were unconscious of it "then". All events happen simultaneously. Time only feels real and objective if you dwell in multiple views of reality, but again, it's always done now. Your entire life is experienced in the present moment. You cannot think or experience anything that is not now. You can't even remember things without remembering them now. Nor can you conceive of a future that is not perceived now. Nothing exists except that which is perceived now now now now now now now...

 

[OGMIOS6666]

A sound debate requires some back up old boy, surely if what you want to know is the truth, then surely one will have to prove it to you

 

[K.Venugopal]

"Time has to be subjective"

It is fact that "this" was typed before "this". All the words, before, after, earlier, later, etc., yes those are subjective interpretations. Time being linear is subjective, but "this" still came before "this" and that is not subjective. "Now" may be the only extant but "now" is only "now" because of "before" and there was a "before"; yesterday did exist.

Today becomes yesterday when our clocks chime the mid-night bell. But Hindus, for example, believe that today becomes yesterday only when it is dawn. Does this mean that time is but an arbitrary measurement we have made for our convenience and has no existence in reality?

 

[K.Venugopal]

What if "creation" and "God" were indistinct (I am guessing my logic on the thread I linked you to earlier did not strike you?)? What if difference wasn't the same as separation? Creator and created absolutely different but not separate.MTF

Difference is not the same as separation. But absolute difference is separation. According to me the only difference between us and God is that we, as we are, are ephemeral and God is eternal. We are not in eternal forms. Only the formless we is eternal.

And what sort of errors do you suppose can happen when posited outside creation?

I hate to say it but if the creator is posited outside creation, we end up playing the slave role vis-à-vis God, whereas if the creator is creation, we would be tempted to seek our divinity.

 

[Runewolf1973]

What a concurrence of thoughts. Could we recognize this "animator" as none other than the life within us that enlivens us?

Yes, I believe so. The "animator" is that force by which all things that exist are animated, even life itself. Even atoms are vibrational and have an "animate" force about them. The idea that anything is so-called inanimate, in my opinion, is false. There is nothing static or inanimate about a universe full of energy that has an action/reaction and changes form.

 

[K.Venugopal]

Yes, but the question remains. Perhaps bringing it nearer might make it clearer: what makes existence? Even though it may always have been, why is it here at all?

Why is existence here at all? Maybe because there is something called life, whose nature it is to be conscious? Life proclaims existence because, it appears, it is ever conscious of itself.

You mentioned one above: the time when "life" (existence to whomever) is not.

A dead man dies to his body (form). But he is not is body. He is life. Therefore there is no death but change of form by formless life. We are that formless life and we suffer when we identify with the body – so they say.

 

[K.Venugopal]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]All praise is for God, the Lord of all domains of existence, [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]The Compassionate, the Merciful,[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]Master of the Day of Judgment.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]Thee alone do we serve, and Thee alone do we ask for help.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]Show us the straight path,[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]The path of those whom Thou hast blest-- [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1](Of those) who have never incurred Thy displeasure, and have not gone astray.[/SIZE][/FONT]

Amen!

 

[K.Venugopal]

Truly, there are no facts. Everything except selfhood, or existence, is ultimately subjective. There is no "that" (a past event) because when you refer to "that", what you are really doing is making a mental projection of a "then" now. It all flows out of the self, now. You didn't know what you know now "then" because you were unconscious of it "then". All events happen simultaneously. Time only feels real and objective if you dwell in multiple views of reality, but again, it's always done now. Your entire life is experienced in the present moment. You cannot think or experience anything that is not now. You can't even remember things without remembering them now. Nor can you conceive of a future that is not perceived now. Nothing exists except that which is perceived now now now now now now now...

They say man can experience everything except death. Is it because there is no death in the now?

 

[K.Venugopal]

A sound debate requires some back up old boy, surely if what you want to know is the truth, then surely one will have to prove it to you

That depends on what you consider your authority. Many people would seek personal experience as authority rather than "mere" scripture.

 

[K.Venugopal]

Yes, I believe so. The "animator" is that force by which all things that exist are animated, even life itself. Even atoms are vibrational and have an "animate" force about them. The idea that anything is so-called inanimate, in my opinion, is false. There is nothing static or inanimate about a universe full of energy that has an action/reaction and changes form.

Again, what a concurrence of thoughts!

 

[darkendless]

We have no means of identifying creation since the moment of creation is not something we can, as of yet, observe and explain. To suggest with authority either way would be grossly unintelligent.

Observations based on personal preference or in other words "speculation" is the best anyone can do.

 

[OGMIOS6666]

Who is more unjust than one who invents a lie against God or rejects His Signs? For such, their portion appointed must reach them from the Book (of decrees): until, when our messengers (of death) arrive and take their souls, they say: "Where are the things that ye used to invoke besides God?" They will reply, "They have left us in the lurch," And they will bear witness against themselves, that they had rejected God.