Is there a Creator?

[Jeremiah]

I suggest that time is only an arbitrary measurement by man and agreed to by his tribe so as to keep track of events. A seed, let us say, becomes a tree in two years. In two years, man says, because he has calculated it according to his measurements. But as the seed becomes a tree - do either have a two year concept? And all existence continues its existence - the becoming and unbecoming, with man alone measuring it all. Time does not exist outside of man’s imagination.

The measurement of time is not time itself; you are confusing the two.

 

[Runewolf1973]

In a chaotic multiverse, there is no need for a creator. Most current cosmological theories consider the mutliverse (and existence) to be eternal, so "gods" are superfluous, and usually are invented to suit man's purposes.

Yes, I agree with that. There is no need for a creator. However, for all matter and energy to exist, to have an action and reaction and to change form, there must be some activating, causative principal or factor behind it. Something that causes energy to be energy in the first place. I do not believe it is supernatural, but I do call that activating, animating factor Spirit. Everything that exists you could say, is in a way "spirited" with some ability or force that causes even an atom to reach and hold it's vibration.

 

[Jeremiah]

Yes, if we didn't measure the passing of days, then seconds, minutes, hours, days, etc would stop. Seconds are not the same as time. Ordination is integral to cause and effect (at least as much as I understand), but time is not. Time can run backwards and cause and effect is still preserved.

MTF

"Ordination is integral to cause and effect" some might call this time; let's not play little word games. I understand "minutes" don't actually exist outside our mind, BUT the thing "minutes" refers to DOES.

If I drop a ball is there a delay before it hits the ground? YES. Time is not the measurement; it is the delay.

 

[katiafish]

God sleeps in the rock,
Dreams in the plant,
Stirs in the animal
And Awakens in Man.
Al Arabi

:rainbow1:

 

[Runewolf1973]

God sleeps in the rock,
Dreams in the plant,
Stirs in the animal
And Awakens in Man.
Al Arabi

:rainbow1:

Yes!! That is the same as that Spirit or animating force that I describe. We know it exists simply by way of it's many manifestations in the existing world. Even the Gospel of Thomas speaks of this...

"....the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you"...."I am the light that shines over all things. I am everywhere. From me all came forth, and to me all return.Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift a stone, and you will find me there..."

 

[FreshBananas]

Saying that a "creator" or "god" designed all of what we know today is ilogical. Its much more logical to think that what is always has been and always will be. To think that a single mind or spirit created all of the physical world and gave it laws to work by is just unreall. Humantiy is the work of millions of mutations and biological accidents. Why would laws have to be set or created by a creator, the laws we know are natural, they created themselves to make the world work in a uniform and logical way.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

Yes!! That is the same as that Spirit or animating force that I describe. We know it exists simply by way of it's many manifestations in the existing world. Even the Gospel of Thomas speaks of this...

"....the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you"...."I am the light that shines over all things. I am everywhere. From me all came forth, and to me all return.Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift a stone, and you will find me there..."

That is beautiful.

Reality is such an amazing thing. The indescribable beauty and depth of that which we all are is humbling, awe-inspiring and makes me feel lucky to be alive. I'm glad I can share this miraculous thing we call life with all of you.
:camp:

"When I look inside and see that I am nothing, that's wisdom. When I look outside and see that I am everything, that's love. And between the two, my life turns."

-Sri Nisargadatta
​

 

[Thief]

Are you suggesting that if we didn't measure the passing of days that they would stop passing? Is time going to stop if we are not looking? No, it is not. The fact that we have created descriptive words and systems of measurements does not mean time is not real; actually it suggest just the opposite.

Time does not exist.
There's a thread around here, somewhere,that addresses this topic.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Saying that a "creator" or "god" designed all of what we know today is ilogical. Its much more logical to think that what is always has been and always will be. To think that a single mind or spirit created all of the physical world and gave it laws to work by is just unreall. Humantiy is the work of millions of mutations and biological accidents. Why would laws have to be set or created by a creator, the laws we know are natural, they created themselves to make the world work in a uniform and logical way.

That is correct and that is what I believe as well. Everything that exists is natural to exist, there is no need for the supernatural. The Spirit that I speak of is the natural, animating factor that is within all matter and energy. Without this factor, energy would neither change form, nor would it have an action or a reaction. Energy and matter would probably not exist without that animate principal that causes even an atom to vibrate. Everything that exists relies on this "matrix of all matter" so to speak. I personally don't call it consciousness because consciousness may only exist in the brain. I don't call it God because the term God generally denotes something supernatural. This is 100% natural. I call it Spirit. Spirit as defined can mean many different things, not necessarily ghosts or something paranormal or supernatural. It can be defined as an activating or causative factor or principal. This is what I believe all energy and matter has, the existence of which is obvious and visible to all, affects us all and every other existing thing. Therefore everything that exists has this activating or causative factor. Everything has Spirit. It is not a single mind or entity.

 

[Jamal_a_Man]

rune wolf, what does jesus mean when he says, 'i and my father are one'?

 

[darkendless]

Saying that a "creator" or "god" designed all of what we know today is ilogical. Its much more logical to think that what is always has been and always will be. To think that a single mind or spirit created all of the physical world and gave it laws to work by is just unreall. Humantiy is the work of millions of mutations and biological accidents. Why would laws have to be set or created by a creator, the laws we know are natural, they created themselves to make the world work in a uniform and logical way.

Since there is no way to rule out a creator it is simply ignorant to suggest otherwise. As a strong atheist myself my personal bias thinks its rediculous to think that a man in a white beard created things, i won'tt rule it out.

However, out of what was everything created if it was created, and who created the creator?

 

[richardlowellt]

Since there is no way to rule out a creator it is simply ignorant to suggest otherwise.

There are plenty of ways to rule out a creator and perhaps you should look u the definition of ignorant, IGNORANT-----Lacking knowledge or awareness of something or someone uneducated. What knowledge do you have, what awareness of a creator? You seem to suggest that anyone who questions the existence of a creator is uneducated on the subject, please educate us on the existence of a creator. Now thats out of the way, and we can agree that to suggest a non existent creator is NOt ignorant, I think given the lack of examinable evidence, the obvious human traits attached to this creator, that this god thing is indeed man made, and it's perfectly logical to assume it does not exist.

As a strong atheist

Maybe not so strong as you pretend to be.

myself my personal bias thinks its rediculous to think that a man in a white beard created things, i won'tt rule it out.

Perhaps you should or come up with valid reasons why you think its existence is possible, at least a Theist can say, "In the end, this is what I believe."

 

[ManTimeForgot]

"Ordination is integral to cause and effect" some might call this time; let's not play little word games. I understand "minutes" don't actually exist outside our mind, BUT the thing "minutes" refers to DOES.

If I drop a ball is there a delay before it hits the ground? YES. Time is not the measurement; it is the delay.

I'm not playing word games. A minute is an abstraction based upon the flow of events. We compare the states of things. That is time in everyday parlance.

According to a scientist Time is the flow which allows for events, but it possesses direction (not merely delay), so here while the thing "minutes" refers to exists it is not the same ordination. Time can flow in reverse but cause and effect is preserved. Can you explain how this can be if ordination = Time?

Time is the delay + direction. But neither one is necessary for causality to function. There needn't be delays between significant events and no "direction" or "set of directions" is strictly better than one or another. Causality requires "superior" and "inferior" in as much as something has antecedent or is exigent for the existence of the other. And that is all causality requires.

MTF

 

[Gharib]

Man has always sought for something for the simple reason that he had felt restless. The restlessness in him, due to his ignorance, led him to the restful state when he discovered his divinity and such discoverers are the people who have started religions.

islam does not believe that man is divine. if god was in all of us, then there goes the notion of an all limmitless god. god cannot have limmits, him being in us gives him limmits, humans have limmits. man is incomplete without god, but we are 2 different beings. if you were to create something and just left it somewhere, then that thing will want to know how and why it came to be. now put man in that possition, but with one difference, we didn't find god without him willing so. god has chosen the best among men to tell us about our purpose, that is god speaking through man rather than man being divine and discovering god.

Religion is the result of man’s seeking. It is no lie.

but man does not seek what is not there. religion is a result of god telling us about our purpose. everything in life has a purpose just as religon has a purpose, to reach god. and the purpose of our creation is to worship god.

But the concept of a creator outside of existence, as Islam alone thoroughly believes, could well be an error of understanding. When Allah is unable to create himself, He does not become responsible for what He is. Existence made Him a reality, instead of He making existence a reality.

the concept of god in islam is very hard to fully understand. man cannot fully understand god while in this life and i for one cannot really explain much about Allah. so instead i will post relevant links regarding this and you can ask me questions about what is not clear. just to get started here are 2 of them.

the first one contains the names of Allah which are his atribbutes and characteristics, that will help you to understand Allah better.

and the second link contains the concept of god in islam. it also speaks about Allah and explains many things in detail

The 99 most beautiful names in existence, the names of Allah (swt)

The concept of GOD in islam

In Hindu parlance, there is Ishwar – God – and then there is Brahman – the undifferentiated. Existence, I would say, is Brahman, the undifferentiated, out of which came Ishwar (God) and the world of duality.

so Brahman is in existence by himself or is he the result of something else ie. was he created, is he etternal?

and wich of the 2 is the cause of existence in hindu perspective?

If God can exist without being created, why can’t existence exist without being created?

existence has limmits, god doesn't. the above links can probablly give you a better understnading about this.

The so called start and end are but the change of forms. The essence is eternal, the expressions change. God is the essence and we are the expressions - expressions of God, not creatures of God.

one question i need to ask you that i'm confused about, at present do you believe in a god creator, do you believe there is no god or do you believe that we are god.

If God always existed, then there was never a time when there was nothing.

yes you could say that, but not in the way that god had a start and has an ending.

The something that became was but the formless nothing becoming something. If God alone existed, than what came was but the becoming of that God.

god did not have to become something for nothing to become something. god does not need to change in order for things to happen.

Thank you eselam for commenting on my thread as my special invitee.

no problem thank you for the invite.

 

[K.Venugopal]

The measurement of time is not time itself; you are confusing the two.

Man does not measure time. Man measures change.

 

[K.Venugopal]

rune wolf, what does jesus mean when he says, 'i and my father are one'?

Jesus would have proclaimed that after he experienced the oneness of existence.

 

[Runewolf1973]

islam does not believe that man is divine. if god was in all of us, then there goes the notion of an all limmitless god. god cannot have limmits, him being in us gives him limmits, humans have limmits.

However, to say that God can not be in us is a limitation also. If this God is truly limitless, it should be capable of being in everything and of everything. That which I call Spirit has this quality. Your version of God only exists in certain places or under certain conditions? How is that limitless?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Jesus would have proclaimed that after he experienced the oneness of existence.

Yes, that is correct. The oneness of existence.

 

[Jeremiah]

Man does not measure time. Man measures change.

 

[darkendless]

There are plenty of ways to rule out a creator and perhaps you should look u the definition of ignorant, IGNORANT-----Lacking knowledge or awareness of something or someone uneducated. What knowledge do you have, what awareness of a creator? You seem to suggest that anyone who questions the existence of a creator is uneducated on the subject, please educate us on the existence of a creator. Now thats out of the way, and we can agree that to suggest a non existent creator is NOt ignorant, I think given the lack of examinable evidence, the obvious human traits attached to this creator, that this god thing is indeed man made, and it's perfectly logical to assume it does not exist.

Its no more logical to suggest it does exist than to suggest it doesn't.

Maybe not so strong as you pretend to be.

At least i'm not stuck with all this angst against religion. I know though, i used to be hate filled when i was 15.

Perhaps you should or come up with valid reasons why you think its existence is possible, at least a Theist can say, "In the end, this is what I believe."

I've said this, or did you choose to ignore it. Since we do not understand the big bang it is impossible to rule out creation. Stop being silly, you cannot make definitive judgements on incomplete evidence. If you would care to show me "complete" evidence for the big bang then we can start ruling out God's. Until then, what is to say that God did not create the big bang? As improbable as it is, its entirely possible.