Is there any evidence for the Truth of Islam ?

[PolyHedral]

Hmm... You should be more careful. Entire page.

"Phrase not found."
Unless you want to say the text of the Qu'ran is magical enough to fool Ctrl-F, then it isn't there.

 

[Rational_Mind]

"Phrase not found."
Unless you want to say the text of the Qu'ran is magical enough to fool Ctrl-F, then it isn't there.

It does not look good on a persons part when they don't put in effort. Please I am not spoon feeding here. Read through the entire page. When I am trying to understand something, whether spiritual or physical, I have to spend time reading a lot.

Scan with your eyes: "expanding"

also I edited my last post to include a link out to the word discussed by someone who know more Arabic.

 

[PolyHedral]

It does not look good on a persons part when they don't put in effort. Please I am not spoon feeding here. Read through the entire page. When I am trying to understand something, whether spiritual or physical, I have to spend time reading a lot.

Scan with your eyes: "expanding"

also I edited my last post to include a link out to the word discussed by someone who know more Arabic.

My apologies, I didn't notice the text itself is an image. However, that page most definitely says, "spread out."

 

[YmirGF]

It does not look good on a persons part when they don't put in effort. Please I am not spoon feeding here. Read through the entire page. When I am trying to understand something, whether spiritual or physical, I have to spend time reading a lot.

Scan with your eyes: "expanding"

also I edited my last post to include a link out to the word discussed by someone who know more Arabic.

God bless footnotes, eh.

One thing I have had drilled into my head BY MUSLIMS is that you cannot "cherry pick" a given line from the Qur'an without understanding the context. One is exhorted to read the prior verses and the verses following, as well as Tasfir, to gain a better understanding of the context of a given verse.

Using your own text...

47. And We destroyed the people of Noah before them; they were a disobedient people.

48. And We have built to heaven with Our own hands*, and verily, We have vast powers**.

49. And the earth We have spread out, and how excellently do We spread it out!

50. And of everything have We created pairs*** that you may reflect.

51. Flee ye, therefore, unto Allah. SUrely, I am a plain Warner unto you from Him.


* - Yad signifies, (1) favour; (2) power; dignity; (3) protection; (4) wealth; (5) arm; etc (Aqrab). Ths the expression in the text means: "We have created the heaven with power and might" OR "We have made the heaven as a manifestation of Our power and might", i.e., in the creation of the heaven(s) and the earth there is proof of many Divine attributes, the prominet being Gods Glory, Might and Majesty.

** - Musi un also means, "We go on expanding."

*** - God created all things in pairs. There are pairs not only in animal life, but also in vegatables and even in inanimate things. There are pairs in spiritual things. Even heaven and earth together make a pair.

Leaving aside the asinine notion about everything being in pairs, including "heaven and earth" , so-called "Rational_Mind" is correct that the word "expanding" does appear in a FOOTNOTE, not in the original text. A footnote is usually subordinate to the point said footnote embellishes. Footnotes are often used to supply chapter/pages references and are usually intended to add significance to the original point, though almost as an after thought, to keep the reader informed of other, less likely, considerations.

The germane point is that the translator(s) here, chose NOT to use "expanding" in their translation. That IS VERY telling. That tells me, they were aware of the possibility but deliberately chose not to put the words that way and likely for very good reasons. My guess is that it is because the following verse specifically states "And the earth We have spread out, and how excellently do We spread it out!" The point is that when we describe something as expanding we do not normally mean "spread out", though it could be used in that way, the wording would be deemed peculiar in English. "Spread out" is usually reserved for instances where something is done on a FLAT surface, the unrolling a carpet, or a table cloth, or like peanut butter on a piece of toast. Yes, you do "spread out" whatever you are using, but you would never say you are "expanding" peanut butter on a piece of toast. Likewise, the universe IS "spreading out" but to put that action, in those terms, would be just plain weird.

Don't even get me started on the half-truth of everything being created in pairs... rotflmao...

 

[Rational_Mind]

God bless footnotes, eh.

One thing I have had drilled into my head BY MUSLIMS is that you cannot "cherry pick" a given line from the Qur'an without understanding the context. One is exhorted to read the prior verses and the verses following, as well as Tasfir, to gain a better understanding of the context of a given verse.

Using your own text...




Leaving aside the asinine notion about everything being in pairs, including "heaven and earth" , so-called "Rational_Mind" is correct that the word "expanding" does appear in a FOOTNOTE, not in the original text. A footnote is usually subordinate to the point said footnote embellishes. Footnotes are often used to supply chapter/pages references and are usually intended to add significance to the original point, though almost as an after thought, to keep the reader informed of other, less likely, considerations.

The germane point is that the translator(s) here, chose NOT to use "expanding" in their translation. That IS VERY telling. That tells me, they were aware of the possibility but deliberately chose not to put the words that way and likely for very good reasons. My guess is that it is because the following verse specifically states "And the earth We have spread out, and how excellently do We spread it out!" The point is that when we describe something as expanding we do not normally mean "spread out", though it could be used in that way, the wording would be deemed peculiar in English. "Spread out" is usually reserved for instances where something is done on a FLAT surface, the unrolling a carpet, or a table cloth, or like peanut butter on a piece of toast. Yes, you do "spread out" whatever you are using, but you would never say you are "expanding" peanut butter on a piece of toast. Likewise, the universe IS "spreading out" but to put that action, in those terms, would be just plain weird.

Don't even get me started on the half-truth of everything being created in pairs... rotflmao...

Yes context is important. I am not going to repeat myself. Please put in some time when available and read through my past posts that explains this genuine question you have raised.

edit: I should also state that although you didn't edit your last post you also did not fix the mistake on a mental level. I am referring to how you incorrectly claim that the word spread -> expand.

 

[PolyHedral]

Don't even get me started on the half-truth of everything being created in pairs... rotflmao...

It works out if some things are paired with themselves...

...IOW, not at all.

 

[Meow Mix]

It works out if some things are paired with themselves...

...IOW, not at all.

Photons are their own antiparticle

 

[PolyHedral]

Photons are their own antiparticle

Which isn't what the authors presumably meant.

 

[Meow Mix]

Which isn't what the authors presumably meant.

You shutcher pie hole and drop to your knees and forsake all before me.

:beach:

Just kidding <3

 

[YmirGF]

Yes context is important. I am not going to repeat myself. Please put in some time when available and read through my past posts that explains this genuine question you have raised.

Sadly, there is nothing in those posts, which I have read, that is worthy of further consideration. You are not very good at this kind of debate. Try another topic.

edit: I should also state that although you didn't edit your last post you also did not fix the mistake on a mental level. I am referring to how you incorrectly claim that the word spread -> expand.

I don't need to correct anything, as no correction is warranted. "If thine eye offend thee, pluck it out."

Do you now seek to correct my usage of English.

 

[Rational_Mind]

Sadly, there is nothing in those posts, which I have read, that is worthy of further consideration. You are not very good at this kind of debate. Try another topic.

I don't need to correct anything, as no correction is warranted. "If thine eye offend thee, pluck it out."

Do you now seek to correct my usage of English.

You keep making a fool out of yourself. You are looking at the wrong verse. I fully pointed that out. Furthermore, look where the footnote number matches. You destroyed your credibility completely. I gave you multiple chances by telling you to be more careful and put in some effort.

 

[McBell]

You keep making a fool out of yourself. You are looking at the wrong verse. I fully pointed that out. Furthermore, look where the footnote number matches. You destroyed your credibility completely. I gave you multiple chances by telling you to be more careful and put in some effort.

:biglaugh:

 

[YmirGF]

:biglaugh:

*passes Mestemia a tinfoil hat and climbs into the raft*

 

[McBell]

You keep making a fool out of yourself. You are looking at the wrong verse. I fully pointed that out. Furthermore, look where the footnote number matches. You destroyed your credibility completely. I gave you multiple chances by telling you to be more careful and put in some effort.

So which version of the Koran has the word "expand" in the verse?
You know, like the version of the verse you presented?

 

[Rational_Mind]

So which version of the Koran has the word "expand" in the verse?
You know, like the version of the verse you presented?

What I am saying is, how does spread relate to expanding. Read what he posted. One is earth the other is heaven. Was the jump because it is things are created in pairs.

 

[PolyHedral]

What I am saying is, how does spread relate to expanding. Read what he posted. One is earth the other is heaven. Was the jump because it is things are created in pairs.

Ask the translators. Regardless, it does not usually use the word "expand," and it would be an anachronism for it to do so. If we accept spread as a more accurate term, then it would be wrong to describe the universe as spreading outwards.

 

[Rational_Mind]

Surat Adh-Dhariyat [51:47] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ?????? Select multiple translations from left.

 

[McBell]

What I am saying is, how does spread relate to expanding. Read what he posted. One is earth the other is heaven. Was the jump because it is things are created in pairs.

What I am asking for is the name of the version that contains this verse AS WRITTEN:

And the heaven We built with Our own powers (aydin) and indeed We go on expanding it (musi'un).1
​

Please note the word expanding.

what version is that version (that has the word expanding in the actual verse like shown above)?

How you think your link with the word expand in the footnotes answers this question, I have no idea.

At this point I am starting to think that you are intentionally dodging the question.

 

[gnostic]

I don't have respect either for people like Zakir Naik. But really who converts to Islam because of just this?? I have never heard or met anyone like this. I also say that Quran is not a science textbook.

I was addressing the thread to loveroftruth.

I do understand there are some Muslims who accept Zakir Naik and put videos of this guy, lecturing to Muslims of the scientific miracles or about Islamic law or customs. And there are some Muslims who rejected his teachings as being unscientific (on science matter) or that he is being un-Islamic or dishonest in non-scientific matters (like law, culture/custom).

I stress again, the interesting thing is the Quran is in conformance with established scientific facts. If it was not that would make it harder for me to belief, I most likely may have left my religion if it was such.

But it is not Qur'an conformance with scientific matters that I don't believe and convert to Islam. There are other things that I couldn't accept in the Qur'an or the Hadith, which I wouldn't accept even in the Christian Bible or Hebrew scriptures (Tanakh).

No, it is the (non-scientific) miracles which I don't believe in the Qur'an or Hadiths or Islamic traditions or some claims in Muhammad's biographies.

Some examples like:

• the angel visitations to Muhammad,
• Gabriel reciting the complete "Qur'an" to Muhammad,
• djinns made out of smoke or fire,
• Allah creating man out of clay,
• Solomon talking to animals (ants, birds) and commanding animals and winds.
• Muhammad visiting Jerusalem from Mecca in a single night on a steed Buraq (Isra wal Mi'raj or Night Journey), before visiting the heavens, like the antediluvian patriarch Enoch.

 

[Rational_Mind]

I was addressing the thread to loveroftruth.

I do understand there are some Muslims who accept Zakir Naik and put videos of this guy, lecturing to Muslims of the scientific miracles or about Islamic law or customs. And there are some Muslims who rejected his teachings as being unscientific (on science matter) or that he is being un-Islamic or dishonest in non-scientific matters (like law, culture/custom).



But it is not Qur'an conformance with scientific matters that I don't believe and convert to Islam. There are other things that I couldn't accept in the Qur'an or the Hadith, which I wouldn't accept even in the Christian Bible or Hebrew scriptures (Tanakh).

No, it is the (non-scientific) miracles which I don't believe in the Qur'an or Hadiths or Islamic traditions or some claims in Muhammad's biographies.

Some examples like:

• the angel visitations to Muhammad,
• Gabriel reciting the complete "Qur'an" to Muhammad,
• djinns made out of smoke or fire,
• Allah creating man out of clay,
• Solomon talking to animals (ants, birds) and commanding animals and winds.
• Muhammad visiting Jerusalem from Mecca in a single night on a steed Buraq (Isra wal Mi'raj or Night Journey), before visiting the heavens, like the antediluvian patriarch Enoch.

We have to discuss this. You are of the few who actually raise valid questions. But this is not the thread, it would be off topic. Ahmadi Muslims differ from today mainstream Islam and we believe that what the Messiah of this age who is mentioned in many divine scriptures (second coming of Jesus (as), second coming of Buddha (as)) came to revive the same Islam of 1400 years back. Something briefly: angels are not physical beings, jinns are not one being and the key thing to understand is smokeless fire, man was not moulded right out of clay, solomon did not talk to animals, Muhammad(saw) did not do any physical journey like that. I can show you why these beliefs are incorrect from Hadith and Quran.