Rational_Mind
Ahmadi Muslim
The exact translation is by the author of the book: Link to Source
I did link it in my first post. But it seems you missed to check the source and its footnotes.
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Is there any evidence for the Truth of Islam ?
- Thread starter loverOfTruth
- Start date
The exact translation is by the author of the book: Link to Source
I did link it in my first post. But it seems you missed to check the source and its footnotes.
loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
Without delving much into the topic, I just wanted to mention one thing that might have been misunderstood regarding expand vs. spread here. See the verses below :
Verse 51:47 is regarding expanding the Universe
Sahih International
And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander.
Muhsin Khan
With power did We construct the heaven. Verily, We are Able to extend the vastness of space thereof.
Pickthall
We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).
Yusuf Ali
With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.
Dr. Ghali
And the heaven (is also a sign). We have built it with (Our) Hands (i.e., Capability) and surely We are indeed extending (it) wide.
Verse 51:48 is regarding spreading the Earth
Sahih International
And the earth We have spread out, and excellent is the preparer.
Muhsin Khan
And We have spread out the earth, how Excellent Spreader (thereof) are We!
Pickthall
And the earth have We laid out, how gracious is the Spreader (thereof)!
Yusuf Ali
And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: How excellently We do spread out!
Dr. Ghali
And the earth, We have laid it out (as) a bedding, so how excellent are the Smoothers! (i.e., Those who make the earth as a cradle)
Moreover, spread out could also refer to extend in one or more direction. Please see http://www.thefreedictionary.com/spread+out
I am sorry if that wasn't the confusion. I still need to answer to some people who made comments earlier, so hopefully I'll get back to this later if it does not resolve the confusion.
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gnostic
The Lost One
rational mind said:
You can create a new topic and let me know which thread you would like me to join you. I would be to happy for you to explain your thoughts about conception of the miracles, or how they are understood or misunderstood.
rational mind said:
There are few Ahmadi Muslims here @ RF, whom I've high respect for. I didn't know the difference between Ahmadi Muslims and other Muslims, until a few months ago...late last year to be more precise in the topic - sharia and honor killing - when tariqkhwaja briefly explained about Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.
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McBell
Admiral Obvious
I take it that you cannot produce a version of the Koran that presents said verse as it was presented in this thread?
And you look down your nose from way up on that horse claiming I am insincere?
Rational_Mind
Ahmadi Muslim
There is only ONE Quran and it is in Arabic.
Your basis of argument is that since there is no translation in book from that contains this verse translated exactly the same on word to word basis then it cannot be true?
I told you that it is translated by the author of the book where I cited it from. And it has been translated similarly in many other translations by other people.
So not a single English translation of the Qu'ran uses the word expand, but you insist that everyone of those translations is in error, now I get it.
loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
Please see the translations that I have provided above - I see the word expand.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
I am trying real really hard to figure out why the need to change gods holy word when presenting it on a message board.
Didn't god get it right?
I mean you cannot offer up even one version of the Koran that uses the word expand IN THE VERSE, yet you present the verse with the word expand.
to further complicate the issue, instead of saying that it is a personal private interpretation, you keep telling people to go look at some FOOTNOTES...
And you claim that is it I who is being insincere?
Your dishonesty is noted.
That translation exists in a BOOK other than the Qu'ran.
If someone was to "quote" an alleged passage from the bible that emphatically denied the legitimacy of a book that would later be known as the Quran, in a book they wrote would you accept it?
Rational_Mind
Ahmadi Muslim
You two must be intentionally doing this.
A) The verse was translated by the author of Revelation Rationality Knowledge and Truth from ARABIC to ENGLISH
B) The SAME verse has been translated with EXPAND by other translators as well, as was shown above and linked.
C) Some translations start verse count at bismillah, some start it after bismillah. So the count can be 1 apart. I stated this earlier, if you someone managed to miss this then you were and never will be interested in any quest regarding religion. I said multiple times to go look back at my posts.
THAT VERSE IS IN THE QURAN. AND THAT WORD HAS TWO MEANINGS GENERALLY USED, THEY BOTH APPLY. BOTH TRANSLATIONS ARE CORRECT. SOMETIMES IT WILL BE IN THE FOOTNOTE BUT SOMETIMES IT WILL BE UP THERE. IT WILL NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE ON WHICH ONE IS CORRECT. THEY BOTH ARE CORRECT AND YOU CANNOT OVERLAP THE TRANSLATION.
WHETHER THAT SPECIFIC ONE-TO-ONE TRANSLATION IS DONE INSIDE A BOOK FORM IS IRRELEVANT. People who speak ARABIC do not use TRANSLATIONS, does that mean that they should not be doing that? People who speak ARABIC often translate a single verse and not one-to-one same english words as another translator, THAT DOES NOT MAKE THE TRANSLATION INVALID.
THIS IS CLEAR ARROGANCE, INSINCERITY, and DISHONESTY on your parts!
MEANING OF MUSI'UN
:http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2005/does-musiun-means-expanding/
Spoon feeding...
Rational_Mind
Ahmadi Muslim
I think they are purposely doing it. It is hard for me to fathom that this can be any honest human being. It started slowly, after they had not much options left they fell to this. This is what happens when you develop a habit of bashing other religions and then for the first few times you don't want to lose.
If both translations are just as valid as each other, then why didn't any of the English translations use the word "expand". If they mean the same thing, then when you "spread" a table cloth are you "expanding" the table or the table cloth? If they are interchangeable, can a child "expand" sweets all over the floor? Or does the child "spread" sweets all over the floor?rational mind said:
Now I am asking as in Arabic, do children expand balloons or do they spread them?
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loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
I seriously hope you were joking when you said 'that translation exists in a BOOK other than the Qur'an'. Otherwise, no one would take you seriously anymore in matter of arguing regarding the Qur'an. Those are not from a different book. All of them are just different translations of the Qur'an - 'Saheeh International' or 'Yusuf Ali' or 'Pickthall' etc. And even the word 'extending the Universe' means the same thing as 'expanding the Universe'. At least you can't argue that it means contracting or staying steady.
Oh dear. I'm sorry, but are you for real?
Rational_Mind
Ahmadi Muslim
Just to begin with you are comparing the wrong verses. Look here:
Surat Adh-Dhariyat [51:47-49] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
Compare to verses:
The Holy Quran
This is what I mean:
The references from the Holy Qur’an herein cite the chapter and verse. In some renderings, the opening verse (Bismillahir-Rahmanir-Rahim – In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful) is not counted and readers using such editions should keep this point in mind to obtain the relevant reference that we have counted it as a verse of the Holy Quran in this book.
I cannot go answering someone who has to be spoon fed. I think I have spent way more time than needed. There are other more important things I have to do. I am really sorry but the amount of effort you are putting in does not justify me putting up that much effort. I hope you read some basics before jumping to the Holy Quran, http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Introduction-Study-Holy-Quran.pdf
If you still don't understand stuff I have written above then ask some friend to read through and help you. You need ONE on ONE help.
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Rational_Mind
Ahmadi Muslim
Read my post. The person needs a one-on-one help.
Sahih International
And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander.
Muhsin Khan
With power did We construct the heaven. Verily, We are Able to extend the vastness of space thereof.
Pickthall
We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).
Yusuf Ali
With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.
Shakir
And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.
Dr. Ghali
And the heaven (is also a sign). We have built it with (Our) Hands (i.e., Capability) and surely We are indeed extending (it) wide.
Wanna try again...........oops.
And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander.
Muhsin Khan
With power did We construct the heaven. Verily, We are Able to extend the vastness of space thereof.
Pickthall
We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).
Yusuf Ali
With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.
Shakir
And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.
Dr. Ghali
And the heaven (is also a sign). We have built it with (Our) Hands (i.e., Capability) and surely We are indeed extending (it) wide.
Wanna try again...........oops.
Agnostic75
Well-Known Member
Message to loverOfTruth: What are you claiming, that advanced medical knowledge in the Koran indicates that God inspired the Koran? Other than some biologists who are followers of Abrahamic religions, no biologist in the world would make such a claim.
What prestigious, peer-reviewed medical journals have articles about advanced medical knowledge in the Koran?
What has the National Academy of Sciences ever said about advanced medical knowledge in the Koran?
Which group of people knows the most about biology? Quite obviously, biologists. The vast majority of biologists in the world are not impressed with the supposedly advanced medical knowledge in the Koran. Since the vast majority of experts are not impressed, why should laymen who know far less about biology?
Which group of people knows the most about geology. Quite obviously, geologists. If laymen want to know whether or not a global flood probably occurred, which gorup of people should they trust? Quite obviously, the vast majority of geologists, and the vast majority of geologists do not believe that a global flood occurred.
One of your scientific sources is Dr. Simpson. As I showed in one of my previous posts, he has admitted that what he said about embryos and the Koran does not necessarily indicate divine inspiration. I also showed that another one of your sources, Dr. Moore, refused to be interviewed about some of his claims.
If the Koran actually contained a lot of advanced scientific information, since Muslims worldwide collectively have lots of money, it should be easy for them to have some international televised debates, and prove their claims. Why aren't there any such debates? A debate challenge would readily be accepted by some skeptic scientists.
If a God inspired the Koran, and wanted to use it to convince as many people as possible to accept Islam, he could easily have done that in many ways. For example, God could have used the Koran to predict when and where some natural disasters would occur, month, day, and year. Skeptics would have a difficult time refuting evidence like that, and far more people would be Muslims today.
Very few skeptics would not want a kind, loving God to exist. That is because most skeptics know that if such a God exists, it would be in their own self-interest to accept him. Human oversight is a good thing. Without it, there would be anarchy in society. Obviously, divine oversight from a kind, loving God would be much better. So, simple logic indicates that most skeptics would not have any motives for rejecting the Koran other than 1) they do not believe that any God exists, or 2) believe that it is plausible that a God exists, but not the God of any religious book, or 3) follow other religions.
What prestigious, peer-reviewed medical journals have articles about advanced medical knowledge in the Koran?
What has the National Academy of Sciences ever said about advanced medical knowledge in the Koran?
Which group of people knows the most about biology? Quite obviously, biologists. The vast majority of biologists in the world are not impressed with the supposedly advanced medical knowledge in the Koran. Since the vast majority of experts are not impressed, why should laymen who know far less about biology?
Which group of people knows the most about geology. Quite obviously, geologists. If laymen want to know whether or not a global flood probably occurred, which gorup of people should they trust? Quite obviously, the vast majority of geologists, and the vast majority of geologists do not believe that a global flood occurred.
One of your scientific sources is Dr. Simpson. As I showed in one of my previous posts, he has admitted that what he said about embryos and the Koran does not necessarily indicate divine inspiration. I also showed that another one of your sources, Dr. Moore, refused to be interviewed about some of his claims.
If the Koran actually contained a lot of advanced scientific information, since Muslims worldwide collectively have lots of money, it should be easy for them to have some international televised debates, and prove their claims. Why aren't there any such debates? A debate challenge would readily be accepted by some skeptic scientists.
If a God inspired the Koran, and wanted to use it to convince as many people as possible to accept Islam, he could easily have done that in many ways. For example, God could have used the Koran to predict when and where some natural disasters would occur, month, day, and year. Skeptics would have a difficult time refuting evidence like that, and far more people would be Muslims today.
Very few skeptics would not want a kind, loving God to exist. That is because most skeptics know that if such a God exists, it would be in their own self-interest to accept him. Human oversight is a good thing. Without it, there would be anarchy in society. Obviously, divine oversight from a kind, loving God would be much better. So, simple logic indicates that most skeptics would not have any motives for rejecting the Koran other than 1) they do not believe that any God exists, or 2) believe that it is plausible that a God exists, but not the God of any religious book, or 3) follow other religions.
loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
You are next - just not getting the time for a long response.
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
So after 22 pages, has anyone been successfully converted by this evidence to truth?