Is there any evidence for the Truth of Islam ?

[McBell]

:clap That make sense . :yes:

 

[FearGod]

The problem is that you are not addressing the core of your own argument.

Your argument can basically be boiled to "complex things require a creator, there fore god exists"

The problem is that you make god an exception to the very rule you present to prove that god exists.
Thus undermining your whole argument.
Cause if god can be an exception to your rule, so can the universe and everything in it.

All the ad hominem nonsense in your post is completely irrelevant and nothing more than a diversion from the fact that you have completed negated your own argument.

Who is much taller, you or the skyscraper ?
Who built the skyscraper ?

Who is faster you or the car ?
Who made the car ?

Who is much faster and more accurate and precise in calculations,you or the computer.
Who made the computer ?

The universe is huge,yes.
But is god

The universe is complex,yes
But is god.

Hope you got the answers yourself.

 

[McBell]

Who is much taller, you or the skyscraper ?
Who built the skyscraper ?

Who is faster you or the car ?
Who made the car ?

Who is much faster and more accurate and precise in calculations,you or the computer.
Who made the computer ?

The universe is huge,yes.
But is god

The universe is complex,yes
But is god.

Hope you got the answers yourself.

Since you obviously are not going to address the problem with your argument and are instead insistent on diversion tactics, I shall let you declare yourself the "winner"

Fly on home and claim your victory.

 

[LuisDantas]

The argument works, if we take as a premise that the universe had a creator.

However, there is no particular reason why that premise is more likely to correspond to truth than the alternative that the existence of the universe simply is.

Logically, the idea of things having a creator is more of a perception trick than a solid truth. It isn't a very straigthforward description of how things happen in everyday reality.

The existence of the universe itself is, of course, at least conceivably an exception from the rules that apply to more ordinary phenomena. It is, quite literally, extraordinary at least.

Maybe it is simply extraordinary, maybe it is extraordinary because it was created by an even more extraordinary will. There are other possibilities as well, but in either case there is no reason to expect it to conform to rules derived from far more ordinary events.

 

[Ingledsva]

Let me ask you this

Human being and other mammals came to life from a sperm which needs a mother womb to evolve from one stage to the next.

So how the first womb came without a sperm that needs to live in a womb.

if you find a rational answer then i'll agree with you that there is no need to think of any deity ( beyond our thoughts and imagination).

Take a course. All of this has been explained.

 

[Ingledsva]

So which is it, there is no proof or just what you think? Is the 'no proof thing' what you think or is that a fact?

Funny but no go. I was replying to this -

My logic says to me there is god behind my existance whereas yes some says that he was an accident.

So it depends on each person and how he thinks.

My reply was -

Indeed it does - and that is the point - what we think, - there is no proof.

You can THINK there are pink polka-dot flying elephants.

But thinking it is not proof.

There is no proof of Deity - it is a faith choice.

*

 

[FearGod]

Take a course. All of this has been explained.

Better if you didn't reply because it shows only your absolute ignorance.

i use my mind to think and not just to read what others says such as human start to walk on 2 legs because he needs to use his hands to carry
things and to use and make tools and got bigger brain because he was in need to be smarter....etc of nonsense

That can be good for you but sorry not for me,so keep on reading and good luck with tautology.

 

[illykitty]

My view is that nature cannot create itself. If you sit outside, you won't see nature suddently create something out of nowhere. The universe is either 1-natural or 2-supernatural. If it's 1 then there probably is a supernatural creator from *insert your God(s) name here* to panentheism but if 2, then it's basically like pantheism or pandeism.

I define supernatural as something that is beyond nature, so natural laws don't apply to it. I believe in panentheism though I define it as belonging in category 1 mainly, with a little of 2 afterwards as the creator has put itself within all.

That's my belief anyway, it might not make sense to someone else. My issue comes when someone claims monopoly on a belief and say that everyone else is wrong. There needs to be some really convincing points and personally I find a few issues out of Islam, mostly with the hadiths.

All religions have their own proof and points made against them and of course everyone says it's taken out of context or some other reason. There's no religion that hasn't got criticism. It's pretty much impossible to know which religion is the right one, if you got an open mind and consider ALL for and against points from all sides.

 

[Ingledsva]

My view is that nature cannot create itself. If you sit outside, you won't see nature suddently create something out of nowhere. The universe is either 1-natural or 2-supernatural. If it's 1 then there probably is a supernatural creator from *insert your God(s) name here* to panentheism but if 2, then it's basically like pantheism or pandeism.

I define supernatural as something that is beyond nature, so natural laws don't apply to it. I believe in panentheism though I define it as belonging in category 1 mainly, with a little of 2 afterwards as the creator has put itself within all.

That's my belief anyway, it might not make sense to someone else. My issue comes when someone claims monopoly on a belief and say that everyone else is wrong. There needs to be some really convincing points and personally I find a few issues out of Islam, mostly with the hadiths.

All religions have their own proof and points made against them and of course everyone says it's taken out of context or some other reason. There's no religion that hasn't got criticism. It's pretty much impossible to know which religion is the right one, if you got an open mind and consider ALL for and against points from all sides.

Yes, you started your post off correctly with "My view is ...," which is the same as I think.

The religions of Abraham don't seem to understand that they have their beliefs, but those are not proof. They want us to believe, using what they think, - rather then proof.

 

[sandandfoam]

The religions of Abraham don't seem to understand that they have their beliefs, but those are not proof. They want us to believe, using what they think, - rather then proof.

Not so.
I have my beliefs. I'm not sure I believe in 'proofs' and I think that every person is on their own journey and so have no interest whatsoever in imposing my views on anyone.
'The religions of Abraham' is a term so broad as to be meaningless.

 

[McBell]

Better if you didn't reply because it shows only your absolute ignorance.

your transference is noted.

i use my mind to think

You have not demonstrated this in this thread...

and not just to read what others says such as human start to walk on 2 legs because he needs to use his hands to carry
things and to use and make tools and got bigger brain because he was in need to be smarter....etc of nonsense

And yet you present nothing new or original, just the absent minded parroting of others.

That can be good for you but sorry not for me,so keep on reading and good luck with tautology.

your hypocrisy is noted.

 

[FearGod]

your transference is noted.

So What.

You have not demonstrated this in this thread...

it isn't my problem if you have some difficulties in understanding my thoughts.

And yet you present nothing new or original, just the absent minded parroting of others.

Did i say that i think there is a common ancestor for human and ape as the others say.
Show me where did i repeat what the others say.

your hypocrisy is noted.

i wish you can bring any point for discussion instead of just useless comments.

 

[McBell]

it isn't my problem if you have some difficulties in understanding my thoughts.

Since you are the one who does not understand your argument...

Did i say that i think there is a common ancestor for human and ape as the others say.
Show me where did i repeat what the others say.

Once again you go way off into left field and completely miss the point.
At this point I am honestly wondering if it is intentional.

i wish you can bring any point for discussion instead of just useless comments.

It would be nice if you could actually stay on a topic longer than three posts...

 

[FearGod]

Since you are the one who does not understand your argument...


Once again you go way off into left field and completely miss the point.
At this point I am honestly wondering if it is intentional.


It would be nice if you could actually stay on a topic longer than three posts...

Good for pointless comments.

Do you have anything to discuss than just repeating yourself.

 

[McBell]

Good for pointless comments.

Do you have anything to discuss than just repeating yourself.

fly on home and claim your victory.
It is all you have.

 

[Looncall]

My logic says to me there is god behind my existance whereas yes some says that he was an accident.

So it depends on each person and how he thinks.

Why are you religious types so upset by the notion that you are statistical flukes? Why should it matter?

If you consider the mischances among your ancestors that could have prevented you being born, your existence is a massive improbability. However, just as it is certain that someone will win a lottery although any one person's doing so is unlikely, that improbability is not significant.

Why are you so insistant about having cosmic significance? That is pretty funny, given how religions prate about being humble.

 

[FearGod]

Why are you religious types so upset by the notion that you are statistical flukes? Why should it matter?

If you consider the mischances among your ancestors that could have prevented you being born, your existence is a massive improbability. However, just as it is certain that someone will win a lottery although any one person's doing so is unlikely, that improbability is not significant.

Why are you so insistant about having cosmic significance? That is pretty funny, given how religions prate about being humble.

if you can see a building that have been built by chances through billions of years and to have stairs and consist of flats with good design,
then i'll think how easy the universe and humans have been made in similar way by random chances.

Thats why we religious people find it difficult to think as simple as you think.

 

[Looncall]

if you can see a building that have been built by chances through billions of years and to have stairs and consist of flats with good design,
then i'll think how easy the universe and humans have been made in similar way by random chances.

Thats why we religious people find it difficult to think as simple as you think.

Ah, but a mechanism is known by which complex things like people can develop. It's called evolution.

The complexity of the universe is explained by physics.

Your determined ignorance does not warrant your sneaking in god(s). "I don't understand, therefore god." is not a valid argument.

 

[FearGod]

Ah, but a mechanism is known by which complex things like people can develop. It's called evolution.

The complexity of the universe is explained by physics.

Your determined ignorance does not warrant your sneaking in god(s). "I don't understand, therefore god." is not a valid argument.

Science and discoveries have increased my faith.

Things which wasn't understood in the quran such as saying that the universe was just one piece which seems to me as a myth how those huge planets were just one piece but science discoveries recently have make it easy for me to accept what have been said in the quran.

Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe? (21:30)

And also what amazes me that all living things orginated from water as explained in the same verse.

 

[Looncall]

Science and discoveries have increased my faith.

Things which wasn't understood in the quran such as saying that the universe was just one piece which seems to me as a myth how those huge planets were just one piece but science discoveries recently have make it easy for me to accept what have been said in the quran.

Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe? (21:30)

And also what amazes me that all living things orginated from water as explained in the same verse.

Yeah, sure; if you carefully choose meanings for "heavens", "one piece", and "of".