Is This A Lie?

[meghanwaterlillies]

I disagree.
He said he was going somewhere he had no intentions at the time of telling of going.
That is a lie.

That he went there later doe snot make the lie a non-lie.

will over non negatives like going to the shop ex "maybe he just wanted to get away from nagging" But we are all taught to keep the peace, RIGHT? "so he cant say that or that would start a new war" so there's the "peace" front. If he said he was going to the shop but wanted to get out and not do something he knows would harm another person I don't blame the guy. And ironically he ended up doing that which he said he would do, peace. lol

 

[McBell]

will over non negatives like going to the shop ex "maybe he just wanted to get away from nagging" But we are all taught to keep the peace, RIGHT? "so he cant say that or that would start a new war" so there's the "peace" front. If he said he was going to the shop but wanted to get out and not do something he knows would harm another person I don't blame the guy. And ironically he ended up doing that which he said he would do, peace. lol

it is still a lie

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

it is still a lie

I don't know if you've only experienced ponies with people but some people are not peaceful and they will not be that way even so to not hurt the other person they may say stuff that doesn't have any sort of intent it's to get away or what they need or to better the situation not do something horrible. So.. okay yes if it was a lie but then over a silly situation that doesn't hurt anyone should I bash the man even though somehow he ended up being truthful in the end?

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

If you say your going to do something tomorrow and then your car breaks down. Well they'll your just not a prophet lol

 

[columbus]

it is still a lie

Yes it is.
The question is whether a lie matters or not.
Tom

 

[McBell]

If you say your going to do something tomorrow and then your car breaks down. Well they'll your just not a prophet lol

If I say i am going to the store tomorrow with intentions of going to the store, then I did not lie if something happens and I do not make it to the store.

If I tell you I am going to the store store tomorrow with no intentions of going to the store and end up at the store for some reason then I still lied.

 

[Acim]

To me, the problem with the OP is that it's too simplistic to get to the heart of the matter. Why b said that they were going to the shop matters more than whether or not they did, if the discussion is about lying and the morality of verbal communication. One could easily lie for very good ethical reasons, and one could tell the truth for appallingly evil reasons.
It's the intentions that matter, not the accuracy.
Tom

Interesting take, but I think with regards to OP the accuracy matters more than the alleged intention. The intention is debatable, as once "the shop" was entered into the record, it would be implausible to believe there was "no intention" to go there. The seed was planted.

Where you say: "Why b said that they were going to the shop matters more than whether or not they did, if the discussion is about lying and the morality of verbal communication." - is challenging to go along with if B was telling the truth about going to the shop, and they did. So, again the intention is debatable.

And accuracy of what is asked is really the determinant on what plausible lie is being told. What one is planning to do, might not be sufficient way to answer "where are you going?"

Plus the accuracy of the timing: where are you going? Answer: the shop. If I ever go to the shop again, I have not told a lie, so we don't really have enough info, now do we, from inquiry by A in OP?

Another way to understand the accuracy of the response by B is "Person b replies 'the shop' but has no intention of going to the shop and instead is going to a friend's. Yet, observably if they never go to a friend's, then THAT would be the lie. Or mistaken information if somehow 'lie' doesn't work. And all of this would only be known to B.

But another possible scenario is that the friend is at the shop. Ha!

 

[McBell]

Yes it is.
The question is whether a lie matters or not.
Tom

That depends upon the persons involved in said situation.
I agree that not all lies are bad.
I disagree that a lie that is not considered bad is not a lie.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

a lie does matter but even maybe future wise because it was a silly situation it ended actually somewhat honestly. Something with lieing and "prophecy". I say I'm going here but then it doesn't happen so techniquely I lied yet they would say I cant predict the future. Here you have a man that says he's going somewhere that he doesn't intend too; yet he ends up doing it. It makes him a horrible liar and an excellent prophet. LOL (my kind of man LOL)
Yet me I'm a horrible prophet and I would make a better liar.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

Well what if you forget something does that make you a liar too?

 

[Acim]

If I say i am going to the store tomorrow with intentions of going to the store, then I did not lie if something happens and I do not make it to the store.

Technically you did lie, because you didn't go to the store.
The "something happens" would allow yourself and perhaps anyone looking at the situation to understand why you didn't make it to the store, but the fact is, you didn't go to the store after saying you are going to the store

If I tell you I am going to the store store tomorrow with no intentions of going to the store and end up at the store for some reason then I still lied.

I would find the intentions here debatable. From my perspective (if I'm the you), you didn't lie to me.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

Technically you did lie, because you didn't go to the store.
The "something happens" would allow yourself and perhaps anyone looking at the situation to understand why you didn't make it to the store, but the fact is, you didn't go to the store after saying you are going to the store



I would find the intentions here debatable. From my perspective (if I'm the you), you didn't lie to me.

LOL actually yes that person lied to themselves, it didn't even cause me any harm.

 

[Acim]

LOL actually yes that person lied to themselves, it didn't even cause me any harm.

Which makes the "intention to deceive" a bit more interesting to consider.
And is also how I've come to understand how hypocrisy works on a very acute level. I say a whole lot of things that I will or won't do, and the opposite ends up occurring. Like me saying (to myself), "there's no way I would ever do such and such." And then the next day, I'm doing it! We can reference that as "I was mistaken" but I think it closer to notion of "I don't even know my own intentions, at times. I am engaged in a bit of self deception."

ETA: whenever I hear people saying, "I'm not saying" (whatever), it strikes me as hypocrisy/deception. Doesn't always play out that way, but usually does.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

Which makes the "intention to deceive" a bit more interesting to consider.
And is also how I've come to understand how hypocrisy works on a very acute level. I say a whole lot of things that I will or won't do, and the opposite ends up occurring. Like me saying (to myself), "there's no way I would ever do such and such." And then the next day, I'm doing it! We can reference that as "I was mistaken" but I think it closer to notion of "I don't even know my own intentions, at times. I am engaged in a bit of self deception."

ETA: whenever I hear people saying, "I'm not saying" (whatever), it strikes me as hypocrisy/deception. Doesn't always play out that way, but usually does.

Well I look at like this...
Here you have a man that says he's going somewhere that he doesn't intend too; yet he ends up doing it. It makes him a horrible liar and an excellent prophet. LOL (my kind of man LOL) Or his own prediction without actually knowing that.
Yet me I'm a horrible prophet and I would make a better liar.
He could use the prior to go do something harmful, where I could use the better liar part do something harmful.
Instead of it being agreeable, and true to yourself and others.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

it is still a lie

but still even saying something of that for what it is, when there is or isn't even a battle is refreshing. ( honesty is usually shared in loving experiences in many ways)

 

[ukok102nak]

as we have learned
that theres a false prophets
meaning theres also a true prophet
and this verse
can distinguished the difference
as it is written
:read:
James 5:10
Brothers and sisters, follow the example of the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. They were patient when they suffered unjustly.
11 We consider those who endure to be blessed. You have heard about Job's endurance. You saw that the Lord ended Job's suffering because the Lord is compassionate and merciful.
12 Above all things, my brothers and sisters, do not take an oath on anything in heaven or on earth. Do not take any oath. If you mean yes, say yes. If you mean no, say no. Do this so that you won't be condemned.

thats the difference between prophets who use the name of god for personal gain
and
prophets who suffered unjustly.

now
if someone will tell a lie
but those lies will only harm itself and
not all the people
then
its no big deal at all coz some people lies only to insult some people
if we may say so

by the way
true prophets today doesn't owned mansions and a lots of money and many wives nor many mistress
and vice versa (meaning theres also female prophet)
coz its also same for those female prophets
though some people will not accept this today


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

 

[columbus]

as we have learned
that theres a false prophets
meaning theres also a true prophet

In no way do thousands of false prophets change the likelihood of there being a true one.
Quite the opposite, it demonstrates both that there is no god with a particular interest in prophets and that people are easily duped by such false claims that prophets make.
Tom

 

[ukok102nak]

as some people
who pretends to be prophets do that always
to gain glory only for themselves
but not unto god
as it is written
:read:
Matthew 7:15
"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves.

thats why
so as it is written
:read:
2 Peter 1:20
knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of private interpretation.
21For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but men spoke from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit.

by the way
do you believed that if something is false
it will be consider as a lie also

. ... just askin
if we may say so ... .


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

In no way do thousands of false prophets change the likelihood of there being a true one.
Quite the opposite, it demonstrates both that there is no god with a particular interest in prophets and that people are easily duped by such false claims that prophets make.
Tom

 

[Rick O'Shez]

To me, the problem with the OP is that it's too simplistic to get to the heart of the matter. Why b said that they were going to the shop matters more than whether or not they did, if the discussion is about lying and the morality of verbal communication. One could easily lie for very good ethical reasons, and one could tell the truth for appallingly evil reasons.
It's the intentions that matter, not the accuracy.
Tom

Of course there is a distinction between "dark" lies and "white" lies, but they are still both lies. They both involve telling an untruth or falsehood with the intention to deceive.

In what circumstances a white lie is morally justified is a separate question.

 

[ukok102nak]

this is something like
if someone falsify someone's statement
just to prove its own opinion
does it make someone who falsify that statement to be
a lie just to prove its own opinion

as they say
some questions lead someone to know the truth
better than not askin at all
nor if someone stop askin
coz that will only gives more confusion unto all
for some people use to judge the cover of the book
without reading the whole contents first
if we may say so

by the way
we are pertaining unto what the OP says


:ty:




godbless
unto all always