Is Trinity in the Bible?

[Smoke]

Just because a group of people got together and canonized the bible doesn't make it the be all to end all. There were other groups that held to the original traditions and did not believe the scriptures the way the church leaders did.

It's likely that those groups wouldn't have recognized quite the same collection of scriptures, either. There was a lot of difference of opinion even among Orthodox Christians.

Who Jesus was and what he was can be found (for the most part) in the 4 gospels. All of the other writings of men after the supposed death of Jesus bring forth new interpretations and opinions as to who and what he was.

I agree. One of my many problems with Christianity is its indifference to the teachings of Jesus. However, there are many people who believe the Bible to be authoritative, and yet disavow the religion of the people who collected and canonized the Bible. If those people were, in effect, members of a false religion and without religious authority, then surely their particular canon of scripture is likewise without religious authority.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

It's likely that those groups wouldn't have recognized quite the same collection of scriptures, either. There was a lot of difference of opinion even among Orthodox Christians.

That is true......

I agree. One of my many problems with Christianity is its indifference to the teachings of Jesus. However, there are many people who believe the Bible to be authoritative, and yet disavow the religion of the people who collected and canonized the Bible. If those people were, in effect, members of a false religion and without religious authority, then surely their particular canon of scripture is likewise without religious authority.

Again, that is so true....

 

[Muffled]

The doctrine of the Trinity is not explicitly taught in the Bible. It was, however, explicitly taught by the people who assembled and canonized the Bible, so I can't see any good reason for rejecting the Trinity and still accepting the Bible as authoritative.[/quote]

The Doctrine of the Trinity that is in vogue these days is taken from the Athanasian Creed which is a much later writing than the canonization of the books of the Bible and later than the Apostles Creed which has a more sensible approach to the Trinity. If you are looking for a teacher in the Bible, Paul is the main one. It appears to me that Paul believed in the Trinity but I will have to research to find verses.

You seem to be contraverting yourself with this statement.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

It appears to me that Paul believed in the Trinity but I will have to research to find verses.[/COLOR]

And that is where it began. The idea of trinity (a triune God) did not exist before that.

Pauls supposed vision or sole encounter of Jesus on the road is the only claim that he could be made for him be an apostle. I thought I remember reading that he was not accepted by some of the actual deciples. I need to find info on that though.

Now that I have gotten that out of the way, try these on for size.....

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?


Can you explain to us what he meant by MY GOD AND YOUR GOD.....????

 

[may]

Here is the evidence: Father, Son and Holy Ghost are in the Bible and explained very nicely by Jesus in John 14. If you were talking about the Doctrine of the Trinity that is a different matter.

yes the father is Jehovah, and the son is Jesus , and the holy spirit is Gods active force . and yes its all in the bible about these . but having the accurate knowledge about who and what they are is the thing to do.
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. JOHN 17;3 we dont need to take in knowledge about any manmade doctrines like the trinity, because its not a bible teaching and we dont need it .

 

[may]

There is no evidence of a precreated Jesus in Heaven. The Biblical evidence is that Jesus was created in the womb of Mary. The reason that Jesus cn enunciate his eternal being is not due to the body but due to His spirit which is the spirit of God.

the Scriptures identify the Word (Jesus in his prehuman existence) as God’s first creation, his firstborn Son.
That Jehovah was truly the Father or Life-Giver to this firstborn Son and, hence, that this Son was actually a creature of God is evident from Jesus’ own statements. He pointed to God as the Source of his life, saying, "I live because of the Father." According to the context, this meant that his life resulted from or was caused by his Father, even as the gaining of life by dying men would result from their faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice.—Joh 6:56, 57.
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;.... collosians 1;15
(Proverbs 8:22) "Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago.

(John 1:1) In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.​

Jesus—A

Godlike One; Divine​

Joh 1:1—"and the Word was a god (godlike; divine)"​

Gr., και θεοςηνο λόγος (kai the·os´ en ho lo´gos)

(John 1:14) So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth.
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[rocka21]

yes the father is Jehovah, and the son is Jesus , and the holy spirit is Gods active force . and yes its all in the bible about these . but having the accurate knowledge about who and what they are is the thing to do.
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. JOHN 17;3 we dont need to take in knowledge about any manmade doctrines like the trinity, because its not a bible teaching and we dont need it .

yes but is

God , God?

Jesus, God?

holy spirit , God?

or is God, God?

Jesus, son? ( not divine)

holy spirit, third cousin?


I believe that these three are one. With different manifestations

 

[may]

the trinity teaching has misled many . and it has been around for centuries , and many haave been influenced by it , that is why people today think that it is a bible teaching because religious leaders and teachers have taken it for granted and passed it on and many have got to believeing the lie . it is a great apostacy from pure bible teachings.

 

[rocka21]

the trinity teaching has misled many . and it has been around for centuries , and many haave been influenced by it , that is why people today think that it is a bible teaching because religious leaders and teachers have taken it for granted and passed it on and many have got to believeing the lie . it is a great apostacy from pure bible teachings.

yes, but are all three God or not?

 

[may]

yes, but are all three God or not?

No , there is only one true God as psalm 83;18 says

That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,​

You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
(John 6:46) Not that any man has seen the Father, except he who is from God; this one has seen the Father.

(John 1:18) No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.
(Proverbs 8:30) then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time,

 

[rocka21]

No , there is only one true God as psalm 83;18 says

That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,​

You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
(John 6:46) Not that any man has seen the Father, except he who is from God; this one has seen the Father.

(John 1:18) No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.
(Proverbs 8:30) then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time,

so is the holy ghost , " less" than God?

why is Gods Spirit " less" than him?

 

[may]

so is the holy ghost , " less" than God?

why is Gods Spirit " less" than him?

the holy spirit is Gods active force , that is why people pray for holy spirit because when a work has the backing of the holy spirit great things can be accomplished.
"You will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon you, and you will be witnesses of me . . . to the most distant part of the earth."—Acts 1:8,
One operation of God’s holy spirit is to inform, to illuminate, to reveal truths. Shortly before his death, Jesus told his disciples: "I have many things yet to say to you, but you are not able to bear them at present. However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide you into all the truth."—John 16:12, 13.
THE Bible’s use of "holy spirit" indicates that it is a controlled force that Jehovah God uses to accomplish a variety of his purposes. To a certain extent, it can be likened to electricity, a force that can be adapted to perform a great variety of operations.

 

[Muffled]

And that is where it began. The idea of trinity (a triune God) did not exist before that.

Pauls supposed vision or sole encounter of Jesus on the road is the only claim that he could be made for him be an apostle. I thought I remember reading that he was not accepted by some of the actual deciples. I need to find info on that though.

Now that I have gotten that out of the way, try these on for size.....

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?


Can you explain to us what he meant by MY GOD AND YOUR GOD.....????

I researched and could not find a place where Paul put the three together. That leaves us with the teaching of Jesus which should be good enough.
John 14:20 In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

 

[Muffled]

yes the father is Jehovah, and the son is Jesus , and the holy spirit is Gods active force . and yes its all in the bible about these . but having the accurate knowledge about who and what they are is the thing to do.
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. JOHN 17;3 we dont need to take in knowledge about any manmade doctrines like the trinity, because its not a bible teaching and we dont need it .

It is not a manmade doctrine but the teaching of Jesus as you can read in the previous message.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It is not a manmade doctrine but the teaching of Jesus as you can read in the previous message.

Here's what you quoted:

John 14:20 In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

So, from that quote, we can conclude one of two things:

- the Triune Godhead is made up of Jesus, His Father, and the "ye" that Jesus refers to, i.e. either the Apostle Philip or all the Apostles (depending on whether you think Jesus was addressing just the person who asked the question He was answering, or everyone assembled)
- being "in" someone or something has no bearing on whether it is God/part of God, and this quote is not a declaration of the nature of God.

 

[may]

I researched and could not find a place where Paul put the three together. That leaves us with the teaching of Jesus which should be good enough.
John 14:20 In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

In that day YOU will know that I am in union with my Father and YOU are in union with me and I am in union with YOU. He that has my commandments and observes them, that one is he who loves me. In turn he that loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will plainly show myself to him.".................... yes unity works wonders

 

[may]

It is not a manmade doctrine but the teaching of Jesus as you can read in the previous message.

Jesus never taught the trinity doctrine , he told his followers that the holy spirit would be with them . but the last thing he told his followers to do was to GO and make diciples matthew 28;19-20 Jesus knew that as long as his followers remained faithful he would give them help with Gods active force (holy spirit)
And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things."

"If YOU love me, YOU will observe my commandments; 16 and I will request the Father and he will give YOU another helper to be with YOU forever, JOHN 14;15-16 Yes when a work has the backing of the most high great things are accomplished .faithfulness leads to great blessings

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I researched and could not find a place where Paul put the three together. That leaves us with the teaching of Jesus which should be good enough.
John 14:20 In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

He makes the distinction that they are seperate in that very quote. But in that statement he actally shows that they are one in purpose.


Matthew 11:25
At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Master of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

No where in there is room to suggest that Jesus is God if he talked about himself as being seperate from God. Nowhere in the above statement is he talking about himself. If he (Jesus) was God in the beginning then this kind of statement would not have been made.

I normally dismiss Paul because of his supposed vision. I don't remember Jesus talking about a person such as Paul to be brought into the fold.

I have looked at a few of Pauls writings and there are places in his letters where he showed that Jesus was seperate.

So I'm left wondering "HOW" Jesus became God if he NEVER taoght this to the people and in various spots in Pauls letters he CONFIRMED Jesus was seperate for God.

Then ("I") have to conclude that the trinity doctrine, as I have previously stated before, is a man made doctrine.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

In that day YOU will know that I am in union with my Father and YOU are in union with me and I am in union with YOU. He that has my commandments and observes them, that one is he who loves me. In turn he that loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will plainly show myself to him.".................... yes unity works wonders

Thank you. This is a great example as to what I have been saying all along.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Jesus never taught the trinity doctrine , he told his followers that the holy spirit would be with them . but the last thing he told his followers to do was to GO and make diciples matthew 28;19-20 Jesus knew that as long as his followers remained faithful he would give them help with Gods active force (holy spirit)
And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things."

"If YOU love me, YOU will observe my commandments; 16 and I will request the Father and he will give YOU another helper to be with YOU forever, JOHN 14;15-16 Yes when a work has the backing of the most high great things are accomplished .faithfulness leads to great blessings

Another great one. I believe I have used that quote before when trying to show that He wasn't God.

"And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth"

Authority was GIVEN.......

If he is God then surely he can not be geven anything........