Is Trinity in the Bible?

[Dirty Penguin]

Here's what you quoted:


So, from that quote, we can conclude one of two things:

- the Triune Godhead is made up of Jesus, His Father, and the "ye" that Jesus refers to, i.e. either the Apostle Philip or all the Apostles (depending on whether you think Jesus was addressing just the person who asked the question He was answering, or everyone assembled)
- being "in" someone or something has no bearing on whether it is God/part of God, and this quote is not a declaration of the nature of God.

NO.....there's now a forth (YE).... God the father, God the sone, God the holy spirit and God the Ye....

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I researched and could not find a place where Paul put the three together. That leaves us with the teaching of Jesus which should be good enough.
John 14:20 In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.[/quote]


John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and tomy God, and your God.

Can you explain to us what he meant by MY GOD AND YOUR GOD.....????

 

[Muffled]

Here's what you quoted:


So, from that quote, we can conclude one of two things:

- the Triune Godhead is made up of Jesus, His Father, and the "ye" that Jesus refers to, i.e. either the Apostle Philip or all the Apostles (depending on whether you think Jesus was addressing just the person who asked the question He was answering, or everyone assembled)
- being "in" someone or something has no bearing on whether it is God/part of God, and this quote is not a declaration of the nature of God.

This is a correct understanding on your part. The Paraclete is The Spirit of God in "ye."
It does not matter to whom Jesus is speaking because He is giving a general principle.
This is presented in this statement by Jesus:
Lu 11:13If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Although the word "in" is used here without reference there is a precedence in this chapter of John that gives it more meaning:
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I say unto you I speak not from myself: but the Father abiding in me doeth his works.
Thus being in the Father means having the Father's words and doing the Father's works.

Jesus equates His Father with God in this verse:
Joh 8:54Jesus answered, If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing: it is my Father that glorifieth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God;

 

[Muffled]

In that day YOU will know that I am in union with my Father and YOU are in union with me and I am in union with YOU. He that has my commandments and observes them, that one is he who loves me. In turn he that loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will plainly show myself to him.".................... yes unity works wonders

Unity is achieved by the Spirit of God working in you. If you try to achieve it yourself it will never happen because your mind will always wander and you have no power of your own to do works.
Isa 55:8For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith Jehovah.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This is a correct understanding on your part. The Paraclete is The Spirit of God in "ye."
It does not matter to whom Jesus is speaking because He is giving a general principle.

Umm... "ye" means "you". I don't see what foundation you have to say that it means anything other than the person being addressed.

Getting back to your original point, though, your verse from John is a statement for the Trinity how, exactly?

This is presented in this statement by Jesus:
Lu 11:13If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

So... you said before that "ye" means the Holy Spirit. Here is says "ye" is evil. Is the Holy Spirit evil?

Although the word "in" is used here without reference there is a precedence in this chapter of John that gives it more meaning:
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I say unto you I speak not from myself: but the Father abiding in me doeth his works.
Thus being in the Father means having the Father's words and doing the Father's works.

And the preceding chapter said that each of us is in Jesus, and Jesus is in each of us. If John 14:10 is evidence that this relationship proves the divinity of Jesus, then isn't John 14:20 evidence that proves the divinity of humanity in general (or, as I mentioned before, possibly just the Apostle Philip)?

 

[may]

Then ("I") have to conclude that the trinity doctrine, as I have previously stated before, is a man made doctrine.

very true indeed

 

[Muffled]

Umm... "ye" means "you". I don't see what foundation you have to say that it means anything other than the person being addressed.

Getting back to your original point, though, your verse from John is a statement for the Trinity how, exactly?


So... you said before that "ye" means the Holy Spirit. Here is says "ye" is evil. Is the Holy Spirit evil?



And the preceding chapter said that each of us is in Jesus, and Jesus is in each of us. If John 14:10 is evidence that this relationship proves the divinity of Jesus, then isn't John 14:20 evidence that proves the divinity of humanity in general (or, as I mentioned before, possibly just the Apostle Philip)?

Father, Jesus and Paraclete all in one another constitute the Trinity.

Only God is good, everyone else is evil before the Holy Spirit comes upon them, then it is the Spirit of God within which is good.

In Jesus there is no human spirit to exert a human will but in us there is a human spirit which can choose to allow God to be the controlling spirit or not. The presence of God controlling our bodies doesn't make our spirits divine any more that the presence of God controlling Jesus could make His body devine.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Father, Jesus and Paraclete all in one another constitute the Trinity.

Where can the evidence of the trinity be found in the four gospels? This was something Jesus never taught his discipes. Jesus preached a oneness of purpose but clearly expressed he was not God because The father was greater than the son (God was greater than its creation).

Only God is good, everyone else is evil before the Holy Spirit comes upon them, then it is the Spirit of God within which is good.

So basically all of Jesus' life up until the time The holy spirit ascended upon him he was evil?

He can't be too evil. John the baptist didn't feel worthy enough to loosen the straps of Jesus's sandals. (Luke 3:16)

In Jesus there is no human spirit to exert a human will

Wrong......Jesus ate, slept, prayed and cried lkie every other man.

but in us there is a human spirit which can choose to allow God to be the controlling spirit or not.

Wrong......Jesus never had that kind of power.

John 12:49
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

12:50
And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Matthew 26:39
And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
As we can clearly see here God was in control. Jesus was never in a position to "allow" God to do anything. We also can see Jesus had no power to escape death let alone have the power to "allow" God to control him. In that very verse we can see (HIS) human will and him praying to God's will to spare him from death.

 

[may]

Another great one. I believe I have used that quote before when trying to show that He wasn't God.

"And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth"

Authority was GIVEN.......

If he is God then surely he can not be geven anything........

Yes that is correct , and in the book of Daniel we can see that Jesus was GIVEN RULERSHIP and it was his father Jehovah that gave it to him .
"I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man(the son of man is Jesus ) happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One. And to him(Jesus) there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin.

 

[may]

Unity is achieved by the Spirit of God working in you. If you try to achieve it yourself it will never happen because your mind will always wander and you have no power of your own to do works.
Isa 55:8For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith Jehovah.

Jesus’ followers did attain a unity similar to that existing between God and his Son. This happened because they complied with God’s Word and with Jesus’ teachings. yes you are right , who has come to know Jehovahs mind
(Romans 11:34) For "who has come to know Jehovah’s mind, or who has become his counselor?"

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Yes that is correct , and in the book of Daniel we can see that Jesus was GIVEN RULERSHIP and it was his father Jehovah that gave it to him .
"I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man(the son of man is Jesus ) happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One. And to him(Jesus) there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin.

I'm still waiting on muffled to explain this one to me.

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

If the trinity is to hold any weight then maybe a more learned trinitarian can explain to me what Jesus (the supposed 100% man - 100% God in the flesh) meant when he said this.

Maybe They can try this one on fo r size...

John 14:1
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Is Trinity in the Bible?

The word Trinity is not in the Bible, but IMO it is philosophically sound. The moment you depart from the concept of the unqualified infinity of God, you must posit an observer/observed duality and a coordinating mind to unify the divergence.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

The word Trinity is not in the Bible, but IMO it is philosophically sound. The moment you depart from the concept of the unqualified infinity of God, you must posit an observer/observed duality and a coordinating mind to unify the divergence.

Just like the Geico caveman said.....


"AHHH......WHAT?????

 

[Muffled]

The word Trinity is not in the Bible, but IMO it is philosophically sound. The moment you depart from the concept of the unqualified infinity of God, you must posit an observer/observed duality and a coordinating mind to unify the divergence.

As far as I can tell the Trinity never departs from the concept of unqualified infinity.
The purpose of communicating though a human is rational enough.
The words of humans are easier to hear. There were prophets of course but no one ever bothered to listen to them. Then again people aren't disposed to listen to God in the flesh either but at least we received God's word from God instead of an intermediary.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

As far as I can tell the Trinity never departs from the concept of unqualified infinity.
The purpose of communicating though a human is rational enough.
The words of humans are easier to hear. There were prophets of course but no one ever bothered to listen to them. Then again people aren't disposed to listen to God in the flesh either but at least we received God's word from God instead of an intermediary.

I agree that the Trinity doesn't depart from the concept of unqualified infinity, and that goes to the point of the Trinity concept. It's an abstract and necessary concept necessary in order to get to the diversity we experience in our lives. As a concept, the Trinity allows for the Infinite's diversity while maintaining its fundamental oneness. Without it, God will be distinct--and finite--entity pulling the universe out of his hat, so to speak, creating it ex nihilo. But if God is truely infinite, there is no "other," not even a nothing.

For this reason, I sometimes think of God (the "Father") as the light on the other side of the cosmic prism, as it were; the observer/observed phases of his being being equivalent to to the "Son" and matter while the coordinating mind is the equivalent of the Holy Spirit.

I know this sounds incomprehensible and confused, but it's really all very simple.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

The purpose of communicating though a human is rational enough.

Did you mean "communicate through"??

If so can you produce some evidence that God spoke through Jesus? I've been looking through the 4 gospels and haven't seen it yet.

 

[Ronald]

Did you mean "communicate through"??

If so can you produce some evidence that God spoke through Jesus? I've been looking through the 4 gospels and haven't seen it yet.

Your still on this subject?!
If there was any tangible evidence, everyone would believe and there would be an empty forum.


Shalom

Baruch Ha’ba B’Shem Adonai

 

[UnityNow101]

True, the trinity cannot be found in the Bible. People who say that it can be found are trying to twist scripture to suit the ideas formulated well after Jesus' death. No early followers of Judaism would have dared hint at God being "three-in-one." This is the truth. We hear all throughout the Bible that God is ONE and that God does not change.

DreGod07, God did indeed speak through Jesus. This does not mean that Jesus is God, but rather that he was the mouthpiece of God to humanity. What was spoken by Jesus was from God, but he was not God himself, for NO man can be God~Numbers 23:19, among others.

This argument should have ended when nobody could properly explain why Jesus claims to have a God...Can God Almighty have a God. Heaven forbid! I have heard it explained that while in the flesh he had a God. Okay, so then we should not worship Jesus anyways using that logic, correct? For if in the flesh he was a man, then how can we worship him? Once something has been created, it ceases from being the Creator. Without God, there would be NO Jesus. God can exist without Jesus, but not the other way around, right?

 

[may]

The word Trinity is not in the Bible, but IMO it is philosophically sound. The moment you depart from the concept of the unqualified infinity of God, you must posit an observer/observed duality and a coordinating mind to unify the divergence.

the moment we stray from Jesus teachings and pure worship of God ,we end up with things like the trinity.

 

[may]

I

I know this sounds incomprehensible and confused, but it's really all very simple.

divine revelation itself does not allow for such a view of God: "God is not a God of confusion."—1 Corinthians 14:33, Revised Standard Version (RS).