Is Woke a religion?

[Argentbear]

Its religious, as well as neo marxist, ones ethnic religion are ireelevant, other than woke is religious. now the Woke mob departs somewhat from the Marxists of the last hundred years, dressing themselves up in slightly different rhetoric replacing economics with race and sex. Having grown up around fundamentalists and now seeing the growth of Woke there is little to differentiate the secular Woke from the fundamentalists, the similarities are in fact striking.



--The Woke have replaced Marx's ‘proletariat’ with ‘marginalized. ’



--Marx's ‘economic struggle’ is now replaced by ‘intersectionality.‘



--Marx’s utopian fantasy, from socialism to communism has been replaced with the woke fantasy of, ’ inclusive equitable society.’ Both fundamentalism and the woke entertain grand fantasies, utopian visions.



-Marx openly hated democracy which he saw as empowering oppressor/ victim, giving more power to the bourgeoisie with greater abilities to exploit the proletariat. The Woke, unlike liberals are not concerned with equality of opportunity but the equality of outcome. The woke, unlike the traditional Marxists see oppressor/victim as primarily racial and sexual with only an omnipotent state structure the means to enforce ‘equity.’ Democratic institutions to the woke are inherently phobe-hater-bigot-fascist, and racist, and, in lockstep with Marxism, as a consequence must be overturned.



---For the Marxist totalitarian the collectivist ideal is the goal, not the individual who must be subservient to the collective ideals, that has stayed the same with the emergence of Woke.



--Both protestant fundamentalism and Woke hold subjectivity above objective facts rendering both religions, their narratives, dogmatically foisted are religious claims.



--A common saying among the Woke faithful is ‘Your truth/my truth’ meaning no objective standard for truth exists. The fundamentalists say they know something is true ‘in their heart,’ further examples of both being religious.

cut and pasting a bad post really doesn't do you any favors

 

[F1fan]

The Woke say debate gives exploitative powers to various oppressors.

Odd that many of the best debaters on this forum (and others) fall into the category you call Woke. Yet none have ever claimed anything like this.

To bring CLARITY, The Woke mob departs somewhat from the Marxists of the last hundred years, dressing themselves up in slightly different rhetoric replacing economics with race and sex. Having grown up around fundamentalists and now seeing the growth of Woke there is little to differentiate the secular Woke from the fundamentalists, the similarities are in fact striking.



--The Woke have replaced Marx's ‘proletariat’ with ‘marginalized. ’



--Marx's ‘economic struggle’ is now replaced by ‘intersectionality.‘



--Marx’s utopian fantasy, from socialism to communism has been replaced with the woke fantasy of, ’ inclusive equitable society.’ Both fundamentalism and the woke entertain grand fantasies, utopian visions.



-Marx openly hated democracy which he saw as empowering oppressor/ victim, giving more power to the bourgeoisie with greater abilities to exploit the proletariat. The Woke, unlike liberals are not concerned with equality of opportunity but the equality of outcome. The woke, unlike the traditional Marxists see oppressor/victim as primarily racial and sexual with only an omnipotent state structure the means to enforce ‘equity.’ Democratic institutions to the woke are inherently phobe-hater-bigot-fascist, and racist, and, in lockstep with Marxism, as a consequence must be overturned.



---For the Marxist totalitarian the collectivist ideal is the goal, not the individual who must be subservient to the collective ideals, that has stayed the same with the emergence of Woke.



--Both protestant fundamentalism and Woke hold subjectivity above objective facts rendering both religions, their narratives, dogmatically foisted are very religious claims.



--A common saying among the Woke faithful is ‘Your truth/my truth’ meaning no objective standard for truth exists. The fundamentalists say they know something is true ‘in their heart,’ further examples of both being religious.

You've done a lot of thinking and writing about something that isn't true. You've created a whole ideology that no one created except those who hate those who fall into the category you call Woke.

 

[ppp]

If one is entrenched forever in the victim oppressor narrative ..

still not an answer to my question. just a repetition of your assertion. did you forget the question? did you understand the question?

 

[LeftyLen]

Odd that many of the best debaters on this forum (and others) fall into the category you call Woke. Yet none have ever claimed anything like this.


You've done a lot of thinking and writing about something that isn't true. You've created a whole ideology that no one created except those who hate those who fall into the category you call Woke.

"You've done a lot of thinking and writing about something that isn't true. You've created a whole ideology that no one created except those who hate those who fall into the category you call Woke. Woke is mostly derived from the Frankfort school of marxism, just dogmatically declaring is not true, means nothing. I apply the horseshoe theory, extreme right/left at some point merge. Far right fundamentalism and far left 'secular fundamentalism'-woke at some point become the same thing. Here is one example, the extreme left Woke who label all who disagree phobes-haters-bigots-fascists. Ironically like the fundamentalist, age of the earth, DNA etc. science is held in contempt by the Woke. Empirical science upholds basic biology, which like the fundamentalists also go against subjective narratives of the woke mob. As I encountered the Woksters online I found promoting facts only earn ad hominem comments leading to their blocking of myself and all who dare disagree. In a group with ‘woke mob’ members I, like all others who disagreed were designated as a ‘phobe-hater-bigot-fascist,’ thus all objective facts presented were dismissed amid frantic cyber arm waving. The facts of biology are clear, no amount of drugs, self-mutilation or ideology will alter XX or XY chromosomes. It was openly declared online by the Woke the facts of biology are of no consequence, subjective feelings transcending objective facts. The Woke promoters of gender ideology brazenly state how one subjectively feels is paramount, and is all that matters. To the woke if one wants to declare themselves a pineapple, basketball, Apache helicopter or another gender, that's what they are and you, with the rest of society must accept it or your a phoebe-hater-bigot-fascist. My banning from a woke dominated group resulted from posting that XX and XY chromosomes are not malleable. The old horseshoe theory, that opposites meet is seen in the similarities between the fundamentalists and woke..

 

[icehorse]

You've done a lot of thinking and writing about something that isn't true. You've created a whole ideology that no one created except those who hate those who fall into the category you call Woke.

I think you'll find that if you use your handy search engine, you'll discover millions of links to the ideas being discussed here. That sure seems like a lot of discussion for an ideology that doesn't exist

 

[F1fan]

Woke is mostly derived from the Frankfort school of marxism, just dogmatically declaring is not true, means nothing.

I've never heard that before. It's a claim without evidence, so we throw it out.

I apply the horseshoe theory, extreme right/left at some point merge.

More like a boomerang, you throw out unsupported claims and they come back and hit you in the face.

Far right fundamentalism and far left 'secular fundamentalism'-woke at some point become the same thing. Here is one example, the extreme left Woke who label all who disagree phobes-haters-bigots-fascists.

Do you not believe these categories exist, and that the labels apply to them? If bigots are observed being bigots, then they are bigots.

Ironically like the fundamentalist, age of the earth, DNA etc. science is held in contempt by the Woke.

So the Worke are well edicated, and the far right isn't.

Empirical science upholds basic biology, which like the fundamentalists also go against subjective narratives of the woke mob.

If you accept science you must be Woke.

As I encountered the Woksters online I found promoting facts only earn ad hominem comments leading to their blocking of myself and all who dare disagree. In a group with ‘woke mob’ members I, like all others who disagreed were designated as a ‘phobe-hater-bigot-fascist,’ thus all objective facts presented were dismissed amid frantic cyber arm waving.

So you disagree, only with the Woke. You're sounding more Woke.

The facts of biology are clear, no amount of drugs, self-mutilation or ideology will alter XX or XY chromosomes. It was openly declared online by the Woke the facts of biology are of no consequence, subjective feelings transcending objective facts. The Woke promoters of gender ideology brazenly state how one subjectively feels is paramount, and is all that matters. To the woke if one wants to declare themselves a pineapple, basketball, Apache helicopter or another gender, that's what they are and you, with the rest of society must accept it or your a phoebe-hater-bigot-fascist. My banning from a woke dominated group resulted from posting that XX and XY chromosomes are not malleable. The old horseshoe theory, that opposites meet is seen in the similarities between the fundamentalists and woke..

OK, so not so well educated. Lots of strawman claims in this. That's a fallacy, and yet more claims without evidence, so we throw this out, too.

 

[libre]

People trying to claim wokeness is part of some nefarious agenda is unsurprising to me, but are we really seriously discussing Cultural Marxism as though it is a real thing?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

defining terms is not 'personal'

Well, it is as sometimes people choose one over another. So what is religion to you?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Someone once wrote "one of the best ways to fight evil i to accept objective reality no matter what the consequences , a maxim i value.

Yeah, that is a non-answer. Please answer how you do objective morality?

 

[Argentbear]

"You've done a lot of thinking and writing about something that isn't true. You've created a whole ideology that no one created except those who hate those who fall into the category you call Woke. Woke is mostly derived from the Frankfort school of marxism, just dogmatically declaring is not true, means nothing. I apply the horseshoe theory, extreme right/left at some point merge. Far right fundamentalism and far left 'secular fundamentalism'-woke at some point become the same thing. Here is one example, the extreme left Woke who label all who disagree phobes-haters-bigots-fascists. Ironically like the fundamentalist, age of the earth, DNA etc. science is held in contempt by the Woke. Empirical science upholds basic biology, which like the fundamentalists also go against subjective narratives of the woke mob. As I encountered the Woksters online I found promoting facts

But you aren't promoting facts, you are spreading disinformation about neo Marxism and the very concept of woke. Presenting evidence and confronting false information isn't a personal attack and your attempt to paint yourself as somehow being a victim would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.

only earn ad hominem comments leading to their blocking of myself and all who dare disagree. In a group with ‘woke mob’ members I, like all others who disagreed were designated as a ‘phobe-hater-bigot-fascist,’ thus all objective facts presented were dismissed amid frantic cyber arm waving. The facts of biology are clear, no amount of drugs, self-mutilation or ideology will alter XX or XY chromosomes.

and no amount of false witness will make discrimination and the dehumanizing of others OK

It was openly declared online by the Woke the facts of biology are of no consequence, subjective feelings transcending objective facts.

Well that is just bull

The Woke promoters of gender ideology brazenly state how one subjectively feels is paramount, and is all that matters. To the woke if one wants to declare themselves a pineapple, basketball, Apache helicopter or another gender, that's what they are and you, with the rest of society must accept it or your a phoebe-hater-bigot-fascist. My banning from a woke dominated group resulted from posting that XX and XY chromosomes are not malleable. The old horseshoe theory, that opposites meet is seen in the similarities between the fundamentalists and woke..

Sounds more like you ban stemmed from your misrepresentation of trans people. That misrepresentation is all on you so man up and take credit for your own actions instead of this fantasy you have constructed.

 

[Argentbear]

I think you'll find that if you use your handy search engine, you'll discover millions of links to the ideas being discussed here. That sure seems like a lot of discussion for an ideology that doesn't exist

The same search engine shows millions of links to unicorns and alien abduction and flat earth. Some people obsess over figments of the imagination

 

[Magic Man]

This response is similar to others I see, so I did a little research I and belief this might be called "an argument from self knowing":
Arguments from self-knowing take the form:

1. If P were true then I would know it; in fact I do not know it; therefore P cannot be true.
2. If Q were false then I would know it; in fact I do not know it; therefore Q cannot be false.

I sometimes call this the "it's not happening" argument. Of course when a poster says "it's not happening" they are - by definition - making an almost impossible to prove claim.

This gets back to other discussions about asking for citations. This is tricky to be sure, but from my perspective, this boils down to being well informed. As I read the news and articles, it's not my responsibility to take exhaustive notes so that I can provide citations for those people who aren't up to speed on a topic.

I have to say that relentless calls for citations or claims of "it's not happening" are holding less and less credibility to me.

So, instead of this nonsensical diatribe, you could have provided examples of people calling for open borders. But because there are no examples, you had to try this weird way around that fact.

So, we're back to the fact that no one is actually calling for open borders. If you feel like responding again, the appropriate way would be to provide examples that support your claim.

And this is another example of the "it's not happening" argument. And of course if I take the time to find examples, then I can imagine hearing "oh, it's rare" or some such. Again, this relentless calling for citations is not compelling.

Ah, the old "But even if I find examples, it's not enough". That's obviously just a weak excuse for not having examples. It doesn't fool anyone, unless they already support your claims.

I must have missed the notice that you were elected judge and arbiter of these debates, can you provide a link to that notice

No need. Your inability to actually address any points and decision to reply with absolutely no substance at all just proves my point.

Now, if you actually want to address the points made, like the fact that MLK supports the things you just claimed are bad, go ahead. If all you have to offer is this drivel, save us all some time.

 

[Magic Man]

As one writer, i believe it was C.S.Lewis, " When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.”

Ah, of course, that makes perfect sense. Because God is the only thing to believe in. My parents are very religious (Catholic). The only real difference between our worldviews is our belief in God and Jesus and the other stuff that comes with that. Outside of that, we pretty much agree on everything. We agree on politics and life and how to raise kids and many, many other things.

An atheist is just a theist minus the God belief. That means nothing for anything else.

We have seen this clearly, in recent history, in Soviet Marxism , and the Maoist Cultural Revolution, all promising a heaven on earth for "true believers " and, in each case, delivering a hell on earth for tens of millions of human beings who, failing to comply with the propaganda of these religion-substitutes, were the victims of their inhuman savagery... "canceled" by bullits. Today we have formed from the old Fabian socialism and the Frankfort school of Marxism a new emerging morbid dark religion called WOKE. This WOKISM is loathed and feared by all liberal right and center and is spreading fast - fed by the vacuum of secularism in America. The WOKE do not debate or engage in any dialogue with any one they disagree with. It is totalitarian by nature and conservatives fail to apprehend the danger of this new religion, whose members cancel by social media today yet tomorrow will cancel at the end of a barral of a gun. ( There are many who lived through Mao' s cultural revolution who are warning us of the similarity) they are secular fundamentalists.

In heaven we are all equal and we live in wonderful circumstances. Yet utopean Marxism promised people a wonderful life here on earth Now with the rise of cultural marxism here , "Wokism" with its intersectionality we have the same victimhood dogma.

Obviously there's nothing insane or hyperbolic here. Nothing at all wrong with comparing "woke" people to communists during the Soviet years or Maoist revolution. This is all perfectly reasonable.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

as one writer, i believe it was C.S.Lewis, " When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.”

That was Chesterton (I Googled), but it looks like something Lewis would say.

But what a reprehensible comment from an insecure man who has to validate himself by demeaning others. Who says that atheism is the belief in nothing but theists trying to defame atheists using straw men? A mean-spirited and insecure one.

And of course its further defamation to claim that people who are critical thinkers can believe in anything. Now he's being ironic. It's people like Lewis and Chesterton who are the faith-based thinkers.

I'm not surprised that it appeals to you enough to continue the defamation for Chesterton posthumously here on RF.

The Woke have replaced Marx's ‘proletariat’ with ‘marginalized. ’

Comments like that one are shibboleths. They identify their source as somebody uncritically imbibing conservative indoctrination memes from the echo chamber. Who else talks like that? Virtually every time I see the word Marxist, it from somebody spouting the rest of the conservative talking points, like "wokeness" and "antifa."

And the way you kept reproducing the full post over and over shows that you are familiar with their tactics. That's EXACTLY what indoctrination is - repetition without argument. And it works on the susceptible, but there is a defense to it among the educated: critical thinking.

 

[icehorse]

Now, if you actually want to address the points made, like the fact that MLK supports the things you just claimed are bad, go ahead. If all you have to offer is this drivel, save us all some time.

Not my job to educate you, that will save me some time

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

The rise of Woke, cultural marxism, is it a religion?

Where on earth are you getting this nonsense from?

 

[icehorse]

The same search engine shows millions of links to unicorns and alien abduction and flat earth. Some people obsess over figments of the imagination

And some people work hard to remain in denial.

But it is true, if you use search engines, you do have to learn to sort the truth from the fiction.

 

[Argentbear]

And some people work hard to remain in denial..

It must be exhausting for you.

 

[icehorse]

It must be exhausting for you.

You're not the first poster I've debated that's more or less both defending wokism and denying that it exists. And one thing I've learned is that providing citations is a waste of time. And we've seen proof of that in this thread.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You're not the first poster I've debated that's more or less both defending wokism and denying that it exists. And one thing I've learned is that providing citations is a waste of time. And we've seen proof of that in this thread.

Well, I know nothing of woke, but I have objective evidence that you are evil, because it is meaningless and subjective, if it is not so, so it is a fact, because it makes sense to me. I.e. objectivity is better and thus you are evil. If you deny that, then it is objective evdience, that you don't understand objective reality and thus you are evil.

So just admit you are evil, if you value evidence and objectvity.