isa (as) /jesus(pbuh)

[Peace]

Forgiveness is a virtue with no doubt ,and we are ordered to forgive as much as our human nature allows. However , it's said that the virtue is always being moderate between two extremes .And this applys for all kind of morals including forgiveness..and that's why Allah described our ummah (muslim nation) to be justly balanced "umatan wasta "
[2:134] " Thus have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves......."

judaism teaches that the eye for the eye , while christianity teaches that one should love his enemies ,and if he was slapped on the face, he should happily and willingly ask for more.
the islamic teachings are more reasonable and more moderate between the two extremes, and that's why it's called the religion of wasateya "moderation"
A believer in god is neither a Revenger nor lax to an extreme level , a believer in allah is a moderate person , and that's the key to understand islam..Moderation

If the early muslims didn't fight for that religion , if they didn't sacrifice and suffer the way they did .... we wouldn't have been muslims , by now . IT's not a shame to fight and stuggle for a moral and good purpose . The shame ,all the shame is to turn your back to the fight ,and to refuse to make any effort or any sacrifices for what you believe to be the truth . And that's why Allah blamed those who called themselves muslims but didn't bother to do anythibg to prove their loyality and faith . They thought "paradise " is easy and cheap and that saying (i believe ) is enough for salvation
And this is exactly what the christians are doing today . They sin day and night , with no feeling of guilt ,because jesus have paid for it . and all they need to do _like abu khalid said _ is to say i love jesus or jesus liberated me ....and the other easy mottos..and may be visit the church on sundays

A christian once told me that the rich don't go to paradise (and i am not sure if it is compatible with the main stream christian belief ), and then i replied that in islam ,both the rich and the poor can go to paradise...the poor go to paradise because he was patient with his povety..and the rich go to paradise because he was thankful and paid his zakat and used the money to please God and spread his word....

Islam doesn't teach us to let go of this earthly life for the hereafter , but to make the hereafter a priortity , and to always remember that this life is nothing compared to it ,
does that mean i should let go of my stressful study ,stay at home praying all the time ,and preparing for my afterlife ?...the answer is : NO ...by being a doctor i can serve my religion.. so iam actually preparing for my afterlife...by being Rich ,i can serve my religion ,so i am preparing for my afterlife...by getting maried and raising good muslims.. i am preparing for my afterlife ... the concept of Ibadah in islam is very very wide and includes every little aspect of life ...that's why muslims don't suffer from the schizophrenia of other faiths...we don't do someting for allah and someting for someone else .. all our actions are for Allah ..all our lives with its tiny details is for allah ..and that's how we fulfill the purpose of our creation... which is (TO SERVE ALLAH ).....if you want to say that islam is a religion of power ,i won't differ with you ..having the power is not a shame ,but how you use the power....It's the destiny of our ummah to face enemies no other nation have ever faced...and no other nation would have ever survived....and unless the Gihad was prescribed in our religion .. our Faith would have been eradicated since day one..

:clap: Masha'Allah baraka Allah fiki my dear sister An excellent great post!!! I wouldn't have said it better!
Alhamdulillah for the bounty of Islam!
May our dear Allah grant you success in this life and the hereafter, ameen!
I'll frubal you once I am allowed

Peace

 

[ayani]

one question i do have - why implement jihad to spread or secure a faith at all?

it's true that early Muslims had many enemies. pagan Arabs, other monotheists who didn't much care for Muhammad, and many hurdles to over come on the road to religious and political security over polytheistic Arab leaders, and freedom of worship for Muslims. yet why turn to armed struggle to defeat worldly enemies? should one's faith and one's relationship to God really have anything to do with whether or not your neighbor believes in your prophet, or whether or not he is struggling against you? in other words, leave the things of the world to the world- man can despise and kill the body and despise one's professed faith, but he can not kill the soul or extinguish the flame of belief, nor take that soul from God. that was the early Christian approach in face of murderous persecution, at least. within Islam, the world and heaven are wedded- religious victory necessarily means demonstrating political power within the context of the early history and expansion of the ummah. one believes one's self to be right, and so one uses defensive and offensive force as well as expansionist tactics to secure larger parts of the world in the name of that right view.

in Christ's message, the two spheres, that which lends worldly / political gain and the holy, are very much separate. Christ lived under a pagan dictator, and He was killed by human instruments of that dictator- He did not topple Rome and secure the land as "safe" for Christians, but He did triumphantly rise after death, and left His disciples with His peace, and with His living example, teachings, and comforting Spirit. "give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's" and "My kingdom is not of this world".

i would agree that one must spend one's wealth in a good way. Jesus asked the rich young man to give all that he had to the poor. to understand something of a Christian view of wealth, one must look at Christ. we believe He was the holy and blessed Son of God, the greatest teacher, and our Lord and Saviour. He was essentially homeless throughout His ministry. He walked and preached among the very, very poor- the abandoned, sick, demon-riddled, persecuted, and hard-working masses. if we follow Him, as His disciples did, we must also put our hands to that plow. He asked us not to store up riches on earth, but riches in heaven, which will not decay or rot.

what matters is whether or not one is attached to one's riches. will one leave them to follow Jesus, or give them all to the poor for Jesus' sake? will one love one's neighbor as himself as give to them as one would have one's self provided for? is it better to donate lots of money to an anonymous zakat fund or to a mosque, or to offer a small something one "needs" to someone else? what does it mean to be rich, and to be poor?

 

[ayani]

i'd also like to share this : if one is talking about what is means to know, honor, and accurately follow Jesus, and what makes Jesus different.

The Path of Jesus

exactly the reasons listed are among the reasons i follow Jesus, and why He stands out as unique for countless others. but like i've said, you won't find such narratives about Him in the Quran; though the Quran says very interesting and redeeming things about Jesus, generally in abstract ways, it does not give a reader an idea of the man who walked, preached, wept, and healed.

 

[nawab]

You are talking like Jesus didnt wanted to fight, how do you explain that

1) But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. Luke 19:27 at least Muhammad PBUH didnt said anyone who dont except him to be thier King, kill them but here according to your bible Jesus is portrayed as a ruthless person

2) Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.Luke 22:36 at least Muhammad didnt told us to sell our garments but to arm themselves. thats why every Christian Nation are trying to sell thier Garments but to arm themselves with mass destructive weapons and thier clothes are becoming less and less.

3) And Jesus entered into Jerusalem, and into the temple: and when he had looked round about upon all things, and now the eventide was come, he went out unto Bethany with the twelve. And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry. And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it. And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple. And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves. And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine. And when even was come, he went out of the city. And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots. And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away. Mark 11: 11-21 Kindly just read this small story and lets see how peace loving our master Jesus (the Hungry God) is according to the Bible, cursing a Fig tree because there was no food and because Jesus was hungry. Nice claims Jesus said love thy neighbour but curse the fig tree when it is out of season, Gods dont do that, Prophets dont do that even Sane people dont do that.

regarding the one claim that Jesus said if someone slaps you one cheek, offer the other. If this claim is true i will ask Christians to offer the other cheek after slapping them everyday and see how many will obey the commandment of Jesus becasuse this law cannot be implemented today

 

[Sahar]

LOL! Yes. It's crazy and not a little insulting. But Allah gave you a mind with which to think as well as a revelation. If you let a thousand-year old revelation direct your life, you reject the gift of mind; if you reject revelation, you reject a gift for another age and different circumstances. My oh my, what is a person to do? Cling to a book that may have been appropriate and necessary a thousand years ago, or turn the eyes and ears to God's presence here and now?

You cannot bully people a free people into submission beating them over head with quotes written in a book from a bygone era. The power of the Western fetish is gone forever; isn't it about time Islam grows up? Growing up doesn't mean you have to forget Allah, any more than a child forgets his or her loving parents.

Mind is not guided except by God's revelation and God's revelation is not known except by mind.

 

[nawab]

Why do you care, You should spread ahmadism not islam

So you are saying killing somebody to establish truth is okay? ARE YOU OKAY?
Islam did not allow fights to establish the truth!!!!!!
You people disgrace Islam and do not even know it. I am starting a new thread on the fight of the sword ... I just can't decide whether I should put it in the same-faith forums or general forums because I want EVERYONE to know the religion of peace that Islam is.

 

[YmirGF]

Mind is not guided except by God's revelation and God's revelation is not known except by mind.

That precludes the necessity to think about anything at all. So-called "revelation" will always remain the poor hand maiden to realization. "Revelation" is only for those who cannot think for themselves and have need to be guided, like sheep to slaughter.

Some students have been preparing and working so hard to pass the exam, whereas others haven’t done any efforts so as to prepare for the exam. The result of the exam is of course obvious. Are you going to give, out of mercy and love, the same good mark that the hard working students deserve to the ones who haven’t done any efforts in preparing for the exam??? Are you going to equate the hard working students with the lazy students?

This made me giggle, Peace. I am one of those jerks who NEVER studied and yet I always did very well on tests. Your example assumes that all the students are of similar intelligence and learn at the same rate. The reality is that they are not and do not. Your example, though well intended, fails on those two counts. :sorry1:

 

[TashaN]

yet why turn to armed struggle to defeat worldly enemies? should one's faith and one's relationship to God really have anything to do with whether or not your neighbor believes in your prophet, or whether or not he is struggling against you?

Are you seriously accusing the Muslims today of beheading their neighbours or hate them just because they are of a different religion, ayani?

I think i no longer know you, as i thought i would, in the past. I'm really sad and disappointed that you think of me and the muslims here in this way. I'm honestly shocked!

 

[TashaN]

That precludes the necessity to think about anything at all. So-called "revelation" will always remain the poor hand maiden to realization. "Revelation" is only for those who cannot think for themselves and have need to be guided, like sheep to slaughter.

Revelation is not for arrogant people, who refuse to hear the truth and think they are guided. The Quran have two approaches:

1- Is through mind and reason, for those who can think deeply, and Allah showed the signs around them.

2- Is also through the mind but this time, it's an approach for those simple people who can't think deeply, and Allah gave them a simple apprach so they can understand, and promised them success in this life and in the hereafter.

This made me giggle, Peace. I am one of those jerks who NEVER studied and yet I always did very well on tests. Your example assumes that all the students are of similar intelligence and learn at the same rate. The reality is that they are not and do not. Your example, though well intended, fails on those two counts. :sorry1:

The answer is from these verses:

[34] Verily, for the Righteous, are Gardens of Delight, in the Presence of their Lord.

[35] Shall We then treat the People of Faith like the People of Sin?

[36] What is the matter with you? How judge ye?

[37] Or have ye a Book through which ye learn,

[38] That ye shall have, through it whatever ye choose?

[39] Or have ye Covenants with Us on oath, reaching to the Day of Judgment, (providing) that ye shall have whatever ye shall demand?

[40] Ask thou of them, which of them will stand surely for that!" (Quran 68:34-40)

And these ...

[286] On no soul doth Allah place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns. ( Pray: ) "Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error; our Lord! Lay not on us a burden like that which Thou didst lay on those before us; our Lord! lay not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear. Blot out our sins, and grant us forgiveness. Have mercy on us. Thou art our Protector; help us against those who stand against Faith." (Quran 2:286)

 

[Dirty Penguin]

one question i do have - why implement jihad to spread or secure a faith at all?

it's true that early Muslims had many enemies. pagan Arabs, other monotheists who didn't much care for Muhammad, and many hurdles to over come on the road to religious and political security over polytheistic Arab leaders, and freedom of worship for Muslims. yet why turn to armed struggle to defeat worldly enemies? should one's faith and one's relationship to God really have anything to do with whether or not your neighbor believes in your prophet, or whether or not he is struggling against you? in other words, leave the things of the world to the world- man can despise and kill the body and despise one's professed faith, but he can not kill the soul or extinguish the flame of belief, nor take that soul from God. that was the early Christian approach in face of murderous persecution, at least. within Islam, the world and heaven are wedded- religious victory necessarily means demonstrating political power within the context of the early history and expansion of the ummah. one believes one's self to be right, and so one uses defensive and offensive force as well as expansionist tactics to secure larger parts of the world in the name of that right view.

in Christ's message, the two spheres, that which lends worldly / political gain and the holy, are very much separate. Christ lived under a pagan dictator, and He was killed by human instruments of that dictator- He did not topple Rome and secure the land as "safe" for Christians, but He did triumphantly rise after death, and left His disciples with His peace, and with His living example, teachings, and comforting Spirit. "give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's" and "My kingdom is not of this world".

i would agree that one must spend one's wealth in a good way. Jesus asked the rich young man to give all that he had to the poor. to understand something of a Christian view of wealth, one must look at Christ. we believe He was the holy and blessed Son of God, the greatest teacher, and our Lord and Saviour. He was essentially homeless throughout His ministry. He walked and preached among the very, very poor- the abandoned, sick, demon-riddled, persecuted, and hard-working masses. if we follow Him, as His disciples did, we must also put our hands to that plow. He asked us not to store up riches on earth, but riches in heaven, which will not decay or rot.

what matters is whether or not one is attached to one's riches. will one leave them to follow Jesus, or give them all to the poor for Jesus' sake? will one love one's neighbor as himself as give to them as one would have one's self provided for? is it better to donate lots of money to an anonymous zakat fund or to a mosque, or to offer a small something one "needs" to someone else? what does it mean to be rich, and to be poor?

I'd like to say that the christian history is not without its "Jihad" as well.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

but like i've said, you won't find such narratives about Him in the Quran;

That's because, as muslims will tell you, the Quran wasn't supposed to give narratives about Yeshua. What it does do is speak very highly of him and his mother. I believe he is actually mentioned more than any other messenger in the Quran.

though the Quran says very interesting and redeeming things about Jesus, generally in abstract ways, it does not give a reader an idea of the man who walked, preached, wept, and healed.

Again, the "scrolls" that came before the Quran contained all the information one needed. The Quran is considered, by muslims, the last revelation. It was said to be a guide book for the people in Muhammeds' time but was and is to be applied universally. One of its purposes was to confirm that which came before it. The scrolls that came before it gives the narratives.

Quran (Arberry Translation)

2:41
And believe in that I have sent down, confirming that which is with you, and be not the first to disbelieve in it. And sell not My signs for a little price; and fear you Me.

2:97
Say: 'Whosoever is an enemy to Gabriel -- he it was that brought it down upon thy heart by the leave of God, confirming what was before it, and for a guidance and good tidings to the believers.

The question is...."Confirming what?".........

Quran 3:3
He has sent down upon thee the Book with the truth, confirming what was before it, and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a muslim so don't take this as me trying to sell you something or even convince you but I think it was important here to point out that one of the things the Quran is supposed to represent is a guide. It is to be used in conjunction with the scrolls before it.

 

[Peace]

This made me giggle, Peace.

Really? Good for you

I am one of those jerks who NEVER studied and yet I always did very well on tests.

Not all tests Paul, for what I have seen so far you are failing the hereafter tests, I am speaking about now, the present btw and not the future because no one knows what will happen in the future except our God, the Creator of all. Hope the veil that covers your senses will be soon removed.

Say: "Shall we tell you of those who lose most in respect of their deeds?-
"Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life, while they thought that they were acquiring good by their works?"
They are those who deny the Signs of their Lord and the fact of their having to meet Him (in the Hereafter): vain will be their works, nor shall We, on the Day of Judgment, give them any weight.
That is their reward, Hell, because they rejected Faith, and took My Signs and My Messengers by way of jest. (Quran; 18: 103- 106)

 

[Jeremy Mason]

I'd like to say that the christian history is not without its "Jihad" as well.

Religion is defined by it's Scripture not it's followers.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Religion is defined by it's Scripture not it's followers.

Please....!!!!!


One man's religion is another mans's cult......


If religion was defined by its scripture then explain to me why there are so many sects of christianity and so many sects of islam..etc...etc.....(everyone reading from the same "scriptures" and all with a different interpretation).......and it's obvious that regardless of the scripture people are following tradition.....("religion defined by the follwers and not scripture")

Additionally there are other "religions" with no scriptures but are considered a "way of life" to certain people but viewed by others as cults or the people are viewed as hethens, or sinners by others.

 

[nawab]

Why there are so many sects, because common sense is just not common

Please....!!!!!


One man's religion is another mans's cult......


If religion was defined by its scripture then explain to me why there are so many sects of christianity and so many sects of islam..etc...etc.....(everyone reading from the same "scriptures" and all with a different interpretation).......and it's obvious that regardless of the scripture people are following tradition.....("religion defined by the follwers and not scripture")

Additionally there are other "religions" with no scriptures but are considered a "way of life" to certain people but viewed by others as cults or the people are viewed as hethens, or sinners by others.

 

[Sahar]

That precludes the necessity to think about anything at all. So-called "revelation" will always remain the poor hand maiden to realization. "Revelation" is only for those who cannot think for themselves and have need to be guided, like sheep to slaughter.

"Perhaps it would be helpful to think far more deeply about what I am saying. There is far more there than might appear at first glance." YmirGF

 

[Ephramsdaughter]

which group muslims or christians actually love him more and show him more respect

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints [Mormons].

2Nephi 25:26 (Book of Mormon)
And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.

Jesus the Christ is the central figure in the doctrine of the LDS Church.
"We worship Him as Lord and Saviour. the Bible is our scripture. We believe the prophets of the Old Testament who foretold the coming of the Messiah, spoke under divine inspiration. We glory in the accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John setting forth the events of the birth. ministry, death and resurrection of the Son of God, the Only Begotten of the Father in the flesh. Like Paul of old, "we are not ashamed of the gospel of [Jesus] Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation" (Romans 1:16). And like Peter, we affirm that Jesus Christ is the only name "given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

The Book of Mormon, which we regard as the testament of the New World {North & South America**...categorically states that it was written to convince the Jew and the Gentile that Jesus is the Christ...

In our book of modern revelation, the Doctrine and Covenants He {Jesus** declared.."I am Alpha and Omega, Christ the Lord; yea evenI am he, the beginning and the end, the Redeemer of the world" (19:1)" (President Gordon B Hinckley).

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Why there are so many sects, because common sense is just not common

All it is, is how the information is interpreted. It, to you, may make perfect sense but come off as something totally different to another.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Please....!!!!!

OK, you asked for it.

One man's religion is another mans's cult......

How long did it take for you to think up that one...

If religion was defined by its scripture then explain to me why there are so many sects of christianity and so many sects of islam..etc...etc.....(everyone reading from the same "scriptures" and all with a different interpretation).......and it's obvious that regardless of the scripture people are following tradition.....("religion defined by the follwers and not scripture")

This is a joke, right?

Additionally there are other "religions" with no scriptures but are considered a "way of life" to certain people but viewed by others as cults or the people are viewed as hethens, or sinners by others.

Great post... What can we expect next?

 

[McBell]

Religion is defined by it's Scripture not it's followers.

If this isn't wishful thinking then I don't know what is.

Without followers, there is no religion, regardless of the scriptures.