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isa (as) /jesus(pbuh)

maro

muslimah
You Christians say that we dishonor him are you all in your senses you are the ones who portray Jesus as being naked, humiliated, suffering, and telling God why have thou forsaken me. you Christians have a very good reasoning logic. You all should know that any person who is crucifified is cursed. How can God almighty allow his messenger to be crucified and suffer for all of the criminals.

why are you amazed nawab ? , the guys are known to disrespect the prophets of Allah ..,
there is a story in the bible stating that Jacob fooled Isaac (GOD) into blessing him instead of Esau :eek: :eek:

A prophet fools God :rolleyes: , the prophet is a deciever and God is a ..... ,

The bible says that the prophets commit adultery "God forbid " and other horrible stuff...., what kind of prophets are those ? and what kind of God who chose them to be prophets ? the Same God who was fooled by jacob ?......

And then miss ayani come to judge prophet Muhammad (PBUH), save your energy for studying the * edited * bible dear ,
Prophet muhamad (PBUH) has already been judged by his lord

[5:15] O People of the Book! there hath come to you Our Messenger, revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary): There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book
 

BucephalusBB

ABACABB
Jesus dying for the sins of mankind is just like

George Bush saying for America to be saved from sin, Jeremy Mason has to be crucified what would you feel. that you have done something great. crucifying poor Jeremy Mason just because he is a extremly nice person but you need to find a scape goat to say that we are saved right now. The sins commited at the tiem of Jesus are merely nothing comparred to whats happening in the world today.

Dont say that this comparrison is ridiculous because from what I know sins are increasing not decreasing why dont you pray to the heavenly father to send another Jesus to be crucifed again for mankind. I think the first time he lacked something thats why sins are increasing or maybe there was a faliure in Gods expirement of Jesus

Your comparison is rediculous. It would however be more correct if Bush had actually power to save from sin, but as far as I heard there is only one that can do that..
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
I think the first time he lacked something thats why sins are increasing or maybe there was a faliure in Gods expirement of Jesus
In this regard, precisely the same thing can be said about "Prophet" Muhammed [pbuh].
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
In this regard, precisely the same thing can be said about "Prophet" Muhammed [pbuh].

You are not getting it. He said so about Jesus because Christians think he is the one who came to wipe out their sins, but Mohammed didn't claim that he will come to personally clean our sins, but we are responsible for that for he is just a warner. We can clean our own sisn by our own. We can pray directly to Allah to forgive us, instaead of crucifying someone to pay for something which we have not done in the first place.

Imagin looking at your baby saying oh my baby, you have been born into this world as a sinner so Jesus will come to clean you. Excuse me? a baby?!
 

Jeremy Mason

Well-Known Member
Imagin looking at your baby saying oh my baby, you have been born into this world as a sinner so Jesus will come to clean you. Excuse me? a baby?!

Strange and miss guided analogy, Abu. My God the Father, Son/Jesus and the Holy Spirit would never call any baby a sinner. Perhaps you should try reading the Bible before trying to come across as one who has read the Bible. Your academic shortcomings are apparent.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Strange and miss guided analogy, Abu. My God the Father, Son/Jesus and the Holy Spirit would never call any baby a sinner. Perhaps you should try reading the Bible before trying to come across as one who has read the Bible. Your academic shortcomings are apparent.

So you mean that you don't believe in the original sin?
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
No I don't and it's not Biblical either.

I know it's not, but many Christians will definitely disagree with you. There are many things in Christianity which have nothing to do with the bible. But that's a totally another topic, because we are talking about Jesus in here.

I have a question though. As you know by now, i was under the impression that most of Christians believe in the original sin, because that would make sense to them of why Jesus died for them. Christians says he died for our sins "original sin?!".

If he didn't die for the original sin, then that means he died for nothing, because there were so many sinners in the past, today, and in the fufure. Will his sacrifice cover even those who are not born yet?

I'm tempted to say that it's somehow looks like an insurance policy, but you don't have to pay anything for this one.
 

Jeremy Mason

Well-Known Member
I know it's not, but many Christians will definitely disagree with you. There are many things in Christianity which have nothing to do with the bible. But that's a totally another topic, because we are talking about Jesus in here.

Yes, people who claim to be Christians have and will come to many biblically unfounded conclusions. I'm sure Islam has this problem as well.

I have a question though. As you know by now, i was under the impression that most of Christians believe in the original sin, because that would make sense to them of why Jesus died for them. Christians says he died for our sins "original sin?!".

Jesus died to atone for the sin. He doesn't hold anyone accountable for someone else's sin.

Original sin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If he didn't die for the original sin, then that means he died for nothing, because there were so many sinners in the past, today, and in the fufure. Will his sacrifice cover even those who are not born yet?

Jesus didn't die for nothing. His atoning blood cleanses people's sin against each other, sins against th Father and his Son/Jesus. The only sins that Jesus won't forgive are the sins against the Holy Spirit. The sin that has not been committed yet is not sin. One has to commit the sin before it is recognized by God. He might know it's going to happen, but ultimately we need to commit the sin before he passes judgment.

I'm tempted to say that it's somehow looks like an insurance policy, but you don't have to pay anything for this one.

Oh yes--fire insurance. While Jesus paid the price for us, he sets conditions in order for one to receive his mercy.
 

nawab

Active Member
Dude I am not amazed by what Jesus Did, I am Amazed by the claims of Christians that the bible say every one is responsible for thier own sins Ezekeil 18:20 but the Christians have a concept of original sin. and they tell me that The Bible is the literal word of God. I know about all the foolings and everything in the Bible if you read my posts in some other topics i did have mention some of the beautifully embarrasing passages from the Bible to alert the Christians


why are you amazed nawab ? , the guys are known to disrespect the prophets of Allah ..,
there is a story in the bible stating that Jacob fooled Isaac (GOD) into blessing him instead of Esau :eek: :eek:

A prophet fools God :rolleyes: , the prophet is a deciever and God is a ..... ,

The bible says that the prophets commit adultery "God forbid " and other horrible stuff...., what kind of prophets are those ? and what kind of God who chose them to be prophets ? the Same God who was fooled by jacob ?......

And then miss ayani come to judge prophet Muhammad (PBUH), save your energy for studying the * edited * bible dear ,
Prophet muhamad (PBUH) has already been judged by his lord

[5:15] O People of the Book! there hath come to you Our Messenger, revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary): There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
You are not getting it. He said so about Jesus because Christians think he is the one who came to wipe out their sins, but Mohammed didn't claim that he will come to personally clean our sins, but we are responsible for that for he is just a warner. We can clean our own sisn by our own. We can pray directly to Allah to forgive us, instaead of crucifying someone to pay for something which we have not done in the first place.
Um, no Abu, I get it, rather, it is you who does not "get it". My point is that Muslim's themselves have not been very successful eradicating their sins via the method extolled by the "Prophet" of Islam.

Imagin looking at your baby saying oh my baby, you have been born into this world as a sinner so Jesus will come to clean you. Excuse me? a baby?!
It isn't my problem, Abu. You have made the assumption that I believe in sin. I don't. "Sin" as it is commonly conceived by both Islam and Christianity (and a herd of other religions) simply does not exist.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Um, no Abu, I get it, rather, it is you who does not "get it". My point is that Muslim's themselves have not been very successful eradicating their sins via the method extolled by the "Prophet" of Islam.

Believe me, you don't. Mohammed showed us HOW TO clean our sins, but it's up to us whether to do it or not, but on the other hand, Christians ALREADY have been saved once Jesus has been crucified "according to them".

It isn't my problem, Abu. You have made the assumption that I believe in sin. I don't. "Sin" as it is commonly conceived by both Islam and Christianity (and a herd of other religions) simply does not exist.

It was just an example, and i don't necassary mean YOU, Paul.

You know what, i find it amusing how someone who doesn't believe in all these things still discussing, arguing, and debating about it. It's a total waste of time, if you were serious, but if you just wanted to have fun by talking about the things which you believe to doesn't exist, so that's another story.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yes, people who claim to be Christians have and will come to many biblically unfounded conclusions. I'm sure Islam has this problem as well.

Of course, many who claim to be Muslims might do the same thing.

Jesus died to atone for the sin. He doesn't hold anyone accountable for someone else's sin.

Original sin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jesus didn't die for nothing. His atoning blood cleanses people's sin against each other, sins against th Father and his Son/Jesus. The only sins that Jesus won't forgive are the sins against the Holy Spirit. The sin that has not been committed yet is not sin. One has to commit the sin before it is recognized by God. He might know it's going to happen, but ultimately we need to commit the sin before he passes judgment.

That was really interesting. While your argument seem to be more logical than others, but still, there are so many biblical passages which states that one is responsible for his own sin, but not for others.

..The one who sins is the one who will die. Ezek. 18:1-4, TNIV

According to this one, Jesus died because he was a sinner.

Also, i don't see any condition of what type of sin is that. Is there any biblical passages which support your stance about the sin against Father, and Jesus, and each other, etc?
 

Jeremy Mason

Well-Known Member
..The one who sins is the one who will die. Ezek. 18:1-4, TNIV

According to this one, Jesus died because he was a sinner.

Careful Abu, Jesus was without sin, the lamb with no defect or blemish. He took on our sin, not his own.

Also, i don't see any condition of what type of sin is that. Is there any biblical passages which support your stance about the sin against Father, and Jesus, and each other, etc?

Mark 3:28-29
28I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. 29But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Careful Abu, Jesus was without sin, the lamb with no defect or blemish. He took on our sin, not his own.

But this will contradict with the bible, when it state that only those who commit the sin shall die, no?

I don't see any exception until now.

Mark 3:28-29
28I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. 29But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."

Thank you. :)
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Well I'm sure we're all going to die sometime. Jesus took on our sin so that we could be reconciled to God in the afterlife, the second death will not effect God's chosen.

Your welcome. :)

Well, that's seem to be your own interpretation, but there are no solid proof to rely on, am i right?
 

Jeremy Mason

Well-Known Member
Well, that's seem to be your own interpretation, but there are no solid proof to rely on, am i right?

Your right, that's my interpretation. As far as proof I have the Holy Bible, 2000 years of historians and some archeology that corroborate the fulfilled prophesies of Jesus. But if you want to see the real proof, it's my life and how Jesus changed me.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Believe me, you don't. Mohammed showed us HOW TO clean our sins, but it's up to us whether to do it or not, but on the other hand, Christians ALREADY have been saved once Jesus has been crucified "according to them".
My slant on this is that Christ was trying to tell us that sin did not exist, hence if you simply believed in him your "sins" were forgiven. It is my assertion that the comment, "Go then and sin no more" was in reference to this. The point being that is one believed in the Christ, I mean, really believed in what Christ stood for, it is rather unlikely that such a person would commit what was regarded as "sins". Get it? It isn't so much a case of so-called "sins" literally being "forgiven" but rather it is a case of the individual leading a life that is a few skips and jumps beyond the probability of further "sinning".

Then, Muhammed [pbuh] trotted past, several hundred years later, and reinstituted the concept of "sin", but added the twist that it was up to the individual to "sin no more". As you say, the individual is responsible for "sinning" or not "sinning". That might sound like a progressive suggestion, empowering the individual to effect change in their lives. The crux however is that there is no guarentee in Islam, and everything is ultimately judged by Allah, at the end of the road.

The difference is that in the first case, the idea of "sinning", in theory, becomes moot, as if the individual is a "true believer" they CANNOT "sin" any further. In the later case, one is still left with their "sin" and the continued possibility of "sinning" further.

It was just an example, and i don't necassary mean YOU, Paul.
If that is the case, dear Abu, then why direct the comment at me? *flutters eyelashes annoyingly*

You know what, i find it amusing how someone who doesn't believe in all these things still discussing, arguing, and debating about it. It's a total waste of time, if you were serious, but if you just wanted to have fun by talking about the things which you believe to doesn't exist, so that's another story.
Tsk, tsk, Abu. You misunderstand completely, as usual, my friend. As long as people still feel a need to discuss "sin", I have a moral obligation to attempt to set the record straight. I can understand how one could think this effort would be a glorious waste of time, as you so eloquently put it, but I would suggest that that is a very superficial analysis of my intent.

You see, Abu, I have set my "expectation bar" rather low on this matter. I don't actually expect people to believe me. My attainable goal is simply to get people to ponder if there is any possibility that what I am saying might be correct. To me, it is hardly a waste of time and it is somewhat insulting to read such comments from a person who is allegedly a spiritual person. You think I am just having a bit of fun and yet you don't even attempt to realize that I am deadly serious.

The simple fact, Abu, is that you still believe in "sin" and so your life is needlessly hamstrug by this perception, this odd lens, through with you view your personal reality and the personal reality of others. In my own life, I have abolished "sin" and the possibility of "sinning". I am therefore FREE for the inherent guilt associated with "sin" and "sinning". Being trapped by your own perceptions of "sin", you simply cannot imagine just how liberating it is to "sin no more". The psychology behind this is far deeper than you can presently understand, as you are still within the concept of "sin" and being "judged" for your actions. I'm not. Do you get it now, Abu?

What you, superficially perceive, as a lark and a waste of time could not be further from the truth. Heck, I am trying to liberate others from their guilt. I really am hard pressed to think of a more worthy effort.

In closing, I do not intend this as an attack on you, but on the belief structure of people like yourself who are still within those debilitating belief structures. When I say "you cannot imagine" I am not poking a stick in your eye and trying to be mean. I am simply stating a fact, so do not take that personally.
 
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