:areyoucra :areyoucra
Totally illogical???? What are you talking about here??
Why don't you say something that can be understood!!!
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isa (as) /jesus(pbuh)
- Thread starter yousaf
- Start date
Totally illogical???? What are you talking about here??
Beliefs alone don't protect. Beliefs don't make the laws of this world stop. Beliefs don't make the sky rain gold. What you're talking about is completely against the Islamic thought. The Muslim doesn't stay at the mosque praying and supplicating then expect like this he will change the world. This world has laws and rules and those rules are not suspended for the sake of the Muslim. The Muslim is the one who understand the laws of this world and search for causes of success and victory. Tawakkul (putting trust in God) does mean taking the utmost measurements then leaving the rest for Allah. The farmer sows the seeds and waters them, after days the seeds vegetate and grow to give the plant. What the farmer do is the cause and for the cause to give its effect is by Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. Thus the Muslim do his best in what he controls and the rest is done by Allah.
God didn't create us to stay day and night at mosques and houses or worship, He created us to build this earth.
If someone picked up the sword to kill my family, I would not expect the sword would cease to kill just because I believe in God but I would pick up my sword too and defend my family until I die or win.
"Did ye think that ye would enter Heaven without Allah testing those of you who fought hard (In His Cause) and remained steadfast?" (Ali Imran - 142)
The Muslim Army fights another army, when it comes to beliefs then the battle is over, no swords, no fight but giving the people the freedom to choose the way of Islam or any other way.
gnostic
The Lost One
The 2 verses sounded like it was written by Muhammad (or his followers) for his own benefits, not that of your god. Propaganda to make Muhammad seemed to be a superhero or super-prophet.not4me said:
Totally illogical???? What are you talking about here??
Why don't you say something that can be understood!!!
The repeated usages of "Last Prophet" and "Last Messenger" in the Qur'an seemed to be more of ego-trip. Seriously would a god write nonsense about the Last Prophet?
Muslims have elevated Muhammad to the rank of idol, in the way they worship him. You (not you personally, but Muslims in general) have heard of "hero-worship", haven't you?
Except for Jesus with the Christians and Muhammad with the Muslims, all other Hebrew prophets were never elevated to such adorations.
The Jews think that Abraham and Moses are great prophets, but that's about the extent of their respect. Adoration is more than just respect. The Jews don't treat any negative criticism or mockery of their prophets' names that, as blasphemy.
It would seem that the only blasphemers are Christians and Muslims; who would equate their respective messiah and prophet as being holy as or than their god.
As to the OP about who love Jesus more, I think it is silly debate.
nawab
Active Member
If you do not undertsand Quranic language i think you should not speak as if you are a expert. W dont eleveate Muhammad to any other level except for Gods Slave and his last messenger. We dont pray to the prophet, we only treat Muhammad PBUH as a person who delivered Gods message to us.
gnostic
The Lost One
There's more to "worship" than just "praying". Worshipping doesn't always require praying.nawab said:
Look up the word "worship" in a dictionary, nawab. Worship means more about "repsect", "honour", "veneration", "reverence", "adulteration" and "adoration" than praying. Look up both noun and verb in the word worship. Do you see praying anywhere in the definition. Then look up the word reverence and adoration, and then you will see they have absolutely nothing to do with "praying".
Until you understand what the real word for worship, then you can tell me what I can or can't understand, nawab.
The one who is writing non-sense now is YOU.
Hehehe.....then do you mean the rest of the Qur'an is from God?!!
How those two verses make Muhammad seem like a superhero whereas they clearly state that Muhammad (pbuh) is no more than a messenger?
The repeated usage? According to my humble knowledge "the last prophet" is mentioned only in the following verse:
Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allāh and last of the prophets. And ever is Allāh, of all things, Knowing.
Al-Ahzab - 40
If you know any other verses that repeat the same thing, please enlighten me.
nawab
Active Member
Oh man, you cant speak Islam with English, the language is too deficient. I repeat again We dont do Ibadah to our Prophet, we do it to Allah. If you want to learn about Islam than you should learn Arabic then you will understand this is Islam not Christianity that you only learn one verse is enough.
what adoration, i adore my Dog does it mean i worship it.
According to my beleifs, i dont think you can understand the concept without learning Arabic as a language.
what adoration, i adore my Dog does it mean i worship it.
According to my beleifs, i dont think you can understand the concept without learning Arabic as a language.
Why is that?
:sarcastic
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Well what should one take from your response in Post #219 when you said....
"Muslims seemed to idolise Muhammad to the point of being godlike, just as the Christians have done with Jesus."
Now for kicks and giggles I have a dictionary....The actual word is (idolize). No biggie for the mispelling on your part. We all do it here. But here's the definition;
Idolize
1.to regard with blind adoration, devotion, etc.
2.to worship as a god.
3.to practice idolatry: to idolize as did ancient Greece and Rome.
I think he interpreted it correctly when he responded back to say that muslims don't "worship" Muhammed especially since the word you used is synonmous with worship (as if one was worshipping a god)...as you have said christians do. Now It's without a doubt that "some" christians see Yehua as God but I don't think muslims regard Muhammad as a god or God (Allah).
I'm just sayin'......
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Then why are you trying to explain it in English?
Seems to me that this is an attempt at cop out...
gnostic
The Lost One
Admittedly I don't know Arabic. But we are not conversing in Arabic, are we? Your point would be relevant if we were all debating in Arabic, but we are not.nawab said:
So what is your point? Do we make it issue for its meaning in the Arabic language? And are we in Arabic speaking forums?
So what you're saying is a hopeless exercise, since we are in English exercise.
Please give me the definition in English, please. Do you see anywhere we worship means "prayer"?
Excess devotion to a person is idolising, and it is what you would call hero-worship. And Muslims do hero-worship Muhammad; hence they worship an idol.
Actually 1 and 2 are relevant here. They do worship him as a god, since they treat him as "holy". They also treat people who make a mockery of their prophet as blasphemy. They have basically given him god-like status.
Anyone and anything can be treated as idol.
They treated their scripture as being sacred, hence they are idol worshipping a book, supposedly written by god, but it's clearly man-made.
They go on the pilgrim, where they worship the Kabba. Idol worship.
Have you ever ask them why they would pray during the solar or luna eclipses? Is it because Allah was formerly a pre-Islamic moon god?
Why it's illogical to say so? Also, don't forget please that Christians believe that Jesus is God, but Muslims believe that, both, Mohammed and Jesus are the prophets and servants of Allah.
We don't see Mohammed peace be upon him as Godlike and the prophet himself has warned us from doing so, though that will not forbid some ignorant people to do so.
nawab
Active Member
Man, I ll just conclude with what Abu Khalid has stated, No matter how many different forms of worship you identify or whatever you cannot alter the meaning, You know very well whats going on but you just like give cheap shots to prove your own point.
Hey you still have not told me if i adore my dog do i worship it as well.
Hey you still have not told me if i adore my dog do i worship it as well.
So some of the Muslims who accuse others of blasphemy, are the ignorant ones?
Don't tell me that you thought Muslims are ALL alike and think on the same way?! i think you are smart enough to know that there are good and bad, educated and ignorants in every religion.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
I do, for one.
Completely ignoring the small detail that a huge number of Christians believe that Jesus IS GOD. Muslim's demote this version of Christ to second class status, eclipsed only by Prophet Muhammed [pbuh], by making the Christ a mere prophet OF God. To me, that is a bit of a difference, not that it matters, of course.
Irrelevant. Considering that most of the text is at odds with accepted Christian views of Christ, the mention of Christ in the Qur'an, 600 years after the fact, is of little consequence and can hardly be called respectful to Christians. It's simply a wedge, put in for effect -- an appeal to authority that cannot be substantiated.
I can see how people would think this and in context, it does make some sense, but none of it really matters. The whole thing can be reduced to one idea and one sentence. The validity of Islam rests soley on "Prophet" Muhammed [pbuh] and it boils down to either believing what he said was true or not.
Unlike with the Bible, resplendant with all its contradictions, where we have the accounts of many people and how they perceived events, with Islam, it all rests on one man's shoulders as the proverbial camel stops dead in its tracks with him.
The reality is that Muslim's are not being respectful of Christ, they are being respectful to what "Prophet" Muhammed [pbuh] claimed about Christ.
gnostic
The Lost One
I thought you were just being "rhetorical" with that question.nawab said:
I don't think your adoration for your dog is excessive or blind enough, so no.
I don't think that was good comparison.
Since you're bringing hypothetical example (about your dog). Then I will bring up a couple.
Is your reverence to your Qur'an is excessive? If someone was to deliberately damage your copy of your Qur'an, would you hit or kill them in revenge? If your house was on fire, would you save the Qur'an first, or your hypothetical unconscious wife?
(Hypothetical, since I don't know your marriage status.)
If yes, to any question, then you're treating your Qur'an like an idol?
Or let say that someone mock your prophet? How far will you go? I mean in term of action? Would you resort to physical violence?
That's the sort of thing, when I mean worship.