isa (as) /jesus(pbuh)

[YmirGF]

yes so thats why we claim that if Jesus is a God he must have said it which he didnt so Prophet Muhammad was right and the Of course all muslims we know the mind of christ and all the prophets since all of thier message was one La illah ha ilalahu there is no God but Allah. All of them taught the same message. so, peace is right we know the mind of Christ.

That is what "Prophet" Muhammed [pbuh] claimed, but it isn't like anyone could come back and dispute his allegations is it. The simple fact is that they did not all teach the same message and assertions that they did simply minimizes the contributions of the former whilst stroking the ego of the latter and "Final".

However, i still dont see how christains respect, obey, love Jesus more. when we are the ones really obeying, loving and respecting Jesus.

To demote the reality into homilies is perhaps the greatest of indiscretions.

The christains are saying that Jesus is the literal son, begotton not made, Adam was created Jesus is not like that Jesus was sired by God almighty. God Forbid God had sex with Mary to beget Jesus, this is respect. this is insulting God, Mary and Jesus you see with one shot insulting three. Later the portray him as being a week, oppressed naked man who is suffereing imagine a messenger of God or even God is naked and humiliated in front of the sinners. I would say the Jews and the Romans were mightier than the God of Christianity since they crucified him. The chrsitians not only insult Jesus, but Lot, Solomon and other biblical figures who are accused of Adultry, incest and rape and prostitution.

Abject drivel, Nawab. Muslims believe in the Immaculate Conception. That is a fact. Your insistence on demeaning an arguable act of "god" as a form of rape is therefore highly misleading and more than a tad repugnant. You are in fact saying that there are some things that "god" cannot do. Considering that, theoretically, at least, god can do anything, would seem to make one woman becoming pregnant to be a minor detail. You assume to know what "god" can do, to me, that is the very definition of arrogance.

 

[Peace]

This is a fairly presumptuous statement, Peace. Are you now claiming to know the mind of the Christ? :areyoucra

In this particular matter, yes I do :yes:

 

[maro]

and for those who resist within lands claimed for Islam, this has proven over and over to be dangerous- with regards to cultural expression, religious freedom, political freedom

i beg your pardon ? :sarcastic , what do you mean "resist " within "lands claimed for islam " ? are you acusing Islam by not allowing religious and political freedom ?

look at the fate of Christians in Saudi Arabia, of converts to other faiths from Islam in many many Muslim lands, of Baha'is and Zoroastrians in Persia, of Yezidi, Christians, and fellow Muslims in Iraq today...

And that have anything to do with Islam ? or with the concept of Gihad "as i explained it before " ?......is your problem with Islam or with Saudi arabia and Persia ?

the quote you cited and used as an example of an attitude acceptable within Islam says this :

"whoever accepts [Islam] is acceptable to us, and we leave them alone. those who reject [Islam] we will fight until we get what God has promised."

i find that a terrifying, un-Godly, and lamentable attitude towards freedom of conscious. and i am alarmed to find that you espouse such an attitude as acceptably Islamic, let alone reasonable.

well ,i quoted it without even reading it because i know what the arabic quote says already....i guess i don't need to exert much effort to nullify the meaning of compulsion that may appear...because you have already read the quran ..and you must know that it clearly states there is no compulsion in religion....and this is what the history of the Islam states too..

 

[maro]

they believe that Jesus was a valid messenger, to be respected and honored. but they do not walk in His way.

how can we believe he was a messenger from Allah and not walk in his way ? if all the messengers of allah have the same way ,then how can the way of Jesus (PBUH) be different from that of Muhammad (PBUH) ?

oh , jesus , the son of god , allowed the human beings to make him get naked , to humiliate him , to crucify him because he was soooooo tolerant.. and he did that so that you and your fellow christians can sin with your full capacity with the bill paid...Jesus didn't carry a sword to defend himself ...and he teached us to love our enemies ..open our lands and houses for them...and after watching them invading our lands and killing our children we should thank them from all our hearts ....jesus had godly manners because he was the son of god .. or may be god himself... jesus wouldn't bother to let his neighbours belive in god ,and fight for that.....i am sorry ..we are the ones who don't buy that.....

For us , Jesus (PBUH) , was a human being , a messenger . Jesus " as we know him " would carry a sword and die for the message he was chosen to convey....And Allah would never let his beloved messenger get humiliated like that ...to pay for the criminals...

 

[maro]

in Islam, honestly, if you fall away from the practices, the rituals, the habits, the motions of Islam, you fall away from the faith, and can no longer be called a practicing Muslim.

and how can he be called a practicing muslim when he is not practicing ? :sarcastic

but to fall away from the practices, habits, and rituals of Islam is to pretty much slide into the realm of non-practicing Muslim.

And your problem is ..... ?

 

[Jeremy Mason]

how can we believe he was a messenger from Allah and not walk in his way ? if all the messengers of allah have the same way ,then how can the way of Jesus (PBUH) be different from that of Muhammad (PBUH) ?

oh , jesus , the son of god , allowed the human beings to make him get naked , to humiliate him , to crucify him because he was soooooo tolerant.. and he did that so that you and your fellow christians can sin with your full capacity with the bill paid...Jesus didn't carry a sword to defend himself ...and he teached us to love our enemies ..open our lands and houses for them...and after watching them invading our lands and killing our children we should thank them from all our hearts ....jesus had godly manners because he was the son of god .. or may be god himself... jesus wouldn't bother to let his neighbours belive in god ,and fight for that.....i am sorry ..we are the ones who don't buy that.....

For us , Jesus (PBUH) , was a human being , a messenger . Jesus " as we know him " would carry a sword and die for the message he was chosen to convey....And Allah would never let his beloved messenger get humiliated like that ...to pay for the criminals...

You should read the Bible and stop acting like you have read the Bible. Your accusations about Jesus are grossly incorrect and your reputation as someone who knows the matter at hand has been damaged.

 

[maro]

You should read the Bible and stop acting like you have read the Bible.

no dear , i haven't read the bible , and i didn't claim so , i only read the posts of ayani , didn't you ?

Your accusations about Jesus are grossly incorrect
and your reputation as someone who knows the matter at hand has been damaged.

Go ahead , correct me .

 

[Jeremy Mason]

how can we believe he was a messenger from Allah and not walk in his way ? if all the messengers of allah have the same way ,then how can the way of Jesus (PBUH) be different from that of Muhammad (PBUH) ?

Jesus lead no military campaign, Muhammad did.

oh , jesus , the son of god , allowed the human beings to make him get naked , to humiliate him , to crucify him because he was soooooo tolerant.. and he did that so that you and your fellow christians can sin with your full capacity with the bill paid.

Romans 3:3-8

Quote:
3What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness? 4Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written:
"So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge."
5But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) 6Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? 7Someone might argue, "If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?" 8Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—"Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is deserved.

Just because God forgives sin, one should not use His compassion as a license to sin and anyone promoting Christianity in that light will be dealt with severely.

o..Jesus didn't carry a sword to defend himself ...and he teached us to love our enemies ..open our lands and houses for them...and after watching them invading our lands and killing our children we should thank them from all our hearts ....jesus had godly manners because he was the son of god .. or may be god himself... jesus wouldn't bother to let his neighbours belive in god ,and fight for that.....i am sorry ..we are the ones who don't buy that.....

Jesus' sword was the Word and he did teach people to love their enemies. Christian would not invade and kill children. Jesus did let his neighbors believe in God but didn't fight. Do you buy that?

For us , Jesus (PBUH) , was a human being , a messenger . Jesus " as we know him " would carry a sword and die for the message he was chosen to convey....And Allah would never let his beloved messenger get humiliated like that ...to pay for the criminals...

Jesus carried no sword. God plan from the beginning that Jesus would suffer and die to atone for our sins. It's Jesus' blood that can only wipe sin away. You have no power to atone for your own sins.

The Supremacy of Christ (NIV)


15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. 21Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. 22But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

 

[TashaN]

Jesus lead no military campaign, Muhammad did.

What about his second coming? will he not defeat the anti-christ and fight the unbelievers and convert the muslims and the jews, according to what many christians believe in?

 

[UnityNow101]

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't it Jesus who said, regarding people claiming to know the truth, that "Those who are not against us are for us?"

 

[Dirty Penguin]

no dear , i haven't read the bible , and i didn't claim so , i only read the posts of ayani , didn't you ?



Go ahead , correct me .

Well I've read the bible and no where is Jesus God nor does he teach his followers he is.

You all are fighting a continuous losing battle...(christianity vs. islam) no one will be the victor in arguments like this.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Jesus lead no military campaign, Muhammad did.

He couldn't afford to. There was only one supreme army ruling the jews at that time. They were the Romans. Yeshua didn't stand a chance with them. Up to to the point when he instructed his followers to sell everything they had to buy weapons he thought he would have to be protected from the jews....but quickly realized Judas brought Roman soldiers so he had to surrender. All that praying in the garden and scalding his followers for not staying awake (to keep watch and be his protection) says it all. He was prepared to fight....just not the Romans. He knew his limitations

 

[tariqkhwaja]

The way you people are arguing Dirty Penguin's right ... no organization ... no structure and most of all ... no sticking to the point! I was wrong to try to bring the argument into perspective here.

 

[McBell]

I was wrong to try to bring the argument into perspective here.

You were given a handicap with the OP.
The OP made it a contest with the way it presented.

 

[a_student]

I would like to post in this thread but it appears I'm too late, as the... how shall I say?... brutality has already begun. I will say this though. It seems Muslims are a lot more excepting of Jesus than Christians are of Muhammad. Where is this tolerance and forgiveness that Christ's followers claim he had?

 

[Jeremy Mason]

He couldn't afford to. There was only one supreme army ruling the jews at that time. They were the Romans. Yeshua didn't stand a chance with them. Up to to the point when he instructed his followers to sell everything they had to buy weapons he thought he would have to be protected from the jews....but quickly realized Judas brought Roman soldiers so he had to surrender. All that praying in the garden and scalding his followers for not staying awake (to keep watch and be his protection) says it all. He was prepared to fight....just not the Romans. He knew his limitations

Jesus was trying to protect his disciples, not himself. He knew what was going to happen before it happened. He knew he had to die to fulfill the Scriptures. Notice the disciples never pursued a military campaign after Jesus' resurrection. They simply preach the Word of God in the open regardless of their outcome. Talk about guts.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

What about his second coming? will he not defeat the anti-christ and fight the unbelievers and convert the muslims and the jews, according to what many christians believe in?

One quick question before I answer. Where in the Bible does it say there's a difference between Muslims or Jews and unbelievers. A Muslim and a Jew are unbelievers of Christianity. Do Muslims agree that Jesus is Muhammad's and their Lord and savior? Do Jews agree that Jesus is Moses' and their Lord and savior? To be a believer, one has to publicly announce at baptism that Jesus is their Lord and Savior. The way I see it, their is no difference between a unbeliever and someone of a different faith. But ultimately God will forgive who God wants to forgive.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Jesus was trying to protect his disciples, not himself.

No...He specifically told them to watch with him. He was afraid. Remember, he had already had them them bring whatever swords with them to the garden. Keep watch with him for what? Swords for what? He couldn't even protect himself let alone his followers. They carried the swords and one of his followers cut off the ear of the priest. They were there to protect him. Not the other way around. Yeshua just happened to not be in the best of positions considering Judas brought the Roman soldiers with him

Notice the disciples never pursued a military campaign after Jesus' resurrection.

You say this to prove what? As I said....the Romans were one of the most feared armies back then. They wouldn't have been able to mass an army to combat the Romans. It would not be logcal for them to even try.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

To be a believer, one has to publicly announce at baptism that Jesus is their Lord and Savior. The way I see it, their is no difference between a unbeliever and someone of a different faith. But ultimately God will forgive who God wants to forgive.

So what you're saying is though muslims profess their belief in the messiah they don't really believe in him?

Can you you explain why not...?

 

[Jeremy Mason]

No...He specifically told them to watch with him. He was afraid. Remember, he had already had them them bring whatever swords with them to the garden. Keep watch with him for what? Swords for what? He couldn't even protect himself let alone his followers. They carried the swords and one of his followers cut off the ear of the priest. They were there to protect him. Not the other way around. Yeshua just happened to not be in the best of positions considering Judas brought the Roman soldiers with him

Jesus Arrested (NIV)


47While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived. With him was a large crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests and the elders of the people. 48Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: "The one I kiss is the man; arrest him." 49Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, "Greetings, Rabbi!" and kissed him. 50Jesus replied, "Friend, do what you came for."
Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. 51With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.
52"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"
55At that time Jesus said to the crowd, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me. 56But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled." Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.



You see, Jesus didn't need for his disciples to protect him, the 12+ legions of angels could have done the job, even against Rome. He willfully was incarcerated so "that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled".

You say this to prove what? As I said....the Romans were one of the most feared armies back then. They wouldn't have been able to mass an army to combat the Romans. It would not be logcal for them to even try.

I say this because it wasn't Jesus will for his disciples to fight at all nor did they.