ISIL, Taliban = True Islam??

[SA Huguenot]

Yeah. Someone about half a millennia later wrote, that someone said, that someone said, that Ali said, after 10 or 20 generations later, someone had added two verse.

You are a blind believer of the few hadith you have found somewhere. You are a hyper religious, anti islamic, blind believer of a few ahadith mate. Strange. Weird actually.

So, do you believe the hadith?
Do you pray 5 times a day?
The Quran does not say 5 times, but at most 3.
Therefore, you cant cherrypick from the Hadith what suits you and deny the rest.
Your Hadith is clear, Ali did not want to go to the prayer untill the added verses were removed. He failed to accomplish his demand.
Muslims killed each other because of this act by Muslims who added to the Quran to glorify Muhammad.

Choose, deny the hadith, and you deny Islam.

 

[firedragon]

Just for your information.
I decided to give you some pictures that shows you that I never pain to buy books, such as Islamic ones published by Muslim scholars, to learn what they wrote.
Here is a few pictures on the Qurans and other books I attained in my studies.
Also a Circle 7 Quran by the Islamic prophet Drew Ali.
And the Islamic Messenger of Allah, Rashid Khalifa, the "Final Testament" where he gives evidence that the Quran was added too.
You will see the Hadith of Al Bukhari is well worn due to me reading and studying it for over 7 years already.

I thought you might also like to see some of my Bibles out of the over 200 I have.
My study comprises of more than 1200 books, all religion, History, and Science.

Thats all good for you.

But you have to still tell me why you believe some hadith written 500 years after the Quran.

Thanks.

 

[firedragon]

So, do you believe the hadith?
Do you pray 5 times a day?
The Quran does not say 5 times, but at most 3.
Therefore, you cant cherrypick from the Hadith what suits you and deny the rest.
Your Hadith is clear, Ali did not want to go to the prayer untill the added verses were removed. He failed to accomplish his demand.
Muslims killed each other because of this act by Muslims who added to the Quran to glorify Muhammad.

Choose, deny the hadith, and you deny Islam.

Thats all irrelevant. What I believe is not what you believe right? Will you believe everything I say I believe?

Explain why you believe one or two hadith written 500 years later is your gospel truth for you.

Thanks.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Thats all good for you.

But you have to still tell me why you believe some hadith written 500 years after the Quran.

Thanks.

Thats all good for you.

But you have to still tell me why you believe some hadith written 500 years after the Quran.

Thanks.

Well, I dont have to answer you on that point at all.
You are the one that should tell me why YOU BELIEVE IN THE HADITH!
There are many Islamic Laws which is only found in the Hadith.
That is from the 5 daily prayers, to the clothing you wear, to the methods of ablution etc.

I can never find a Muslim who believes in the Hadith, once I ask them about the silly stuff in the Hadith which they practice with high regard.
The whole Islamic religion leans on the Sayings of Muhammad, and the oldest Hadith is the collection of Al Bukhari.

My question to you is, why do you believe in the Hadith, that is by your own words 500 years after the quran?

 

[SA Huguenot]

Thats all irrelevant. What I believe is not what you believe right? Will you believe everything I say I believe?

Explain why you believe one or two hadith written 500 years later is your gospel truth for you.

Thanks.

Furthermore, I do not believe in the Hadith at all!!
I do also not believe in the Quran, nor do I believe that Muhammad was a prophet.
I believe Muhammad was a false prophet, and an imposter poseing as a Prophet of god.
However, when he saw the Jews and Christians saw through him, he then began to wage wars and force people to turn to Islam, or die.
That is the basic history of Muhammad.

 

[firedragon]

Well, I dont have to answer you on that point at all.
You are the one that should tell me why YOU BELIEVE IN THE HADITH!

When you make a proposition and you believe it is historically absolutely correct, it is your burden of proof.

Furthermore, I do not believe in the Hadith at all!!

In that case dont quote one hadith or two Hadiths or a 100 as "Historical fact".

1. I dont believe in hadith'
2. But this hadith is absolute fact historically.

Thats illogical. Thats hypocritical.

 

[SA Huguenot]

When you make a proposition and you believe it is historically absolutely correct, it is your burden of proof.



In that case dont quote one hadith or two Hadiths or a 100 as "Historical fact".

1. I dont believe in hadith'
2. But this hadith is absolute fact historically.

Thats illogical. Thats hypocritical.

Well, it seems as if you are now practicing Taquiah!
You say you do not believe in the Hadith!
Do you pray 5 times a day?
Where did you get that instruction from?

And for the record, the Hadith is the 2nd most holy book in Islam, and if you deny the Hadith in totallity, you are not a Muslim.
Either that, or you are now using Taquiah, (lying to defend Islam)
The snake swallowing it's own tail, it seems.

 

[firedragon]

Well, it seems as if you are now practicing Taquiah!

Okay. So which Islamic scholarly book did you study about the so called Taqeeya?
What does that mean?

 

[SA Huguenot]

No, why dont you start to learn the real Islam.
Dont go to another step before we done discussing the first.
You said you do not believe in the hadith, yet you cant even show me where in the Quran it says to pray 5 times per day!
Therefore, I noticed that you were either lying, or you are not aware that you need the Hadith to perform your prayers according tho what Muhammad prescribed.
You wont know what to say, how many times, etc!
It is all in the Hadith, and no where else!

Visit this website, a muslim one for that matter, and start to learn that you will not understand the Quran, or Muhammad, or Islam, if you say you deny the Hadith.

Are Hadith Necessary? An Examination of the Authority of Hadith in Islam | Yaqeen Institute for Islamic Research

As for Taquiah, all you have to do is to lie when you "defend Islam", like you are doing here, and Allah will give you a Quirat for your efford.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

No, why dont you start to learn the real Islam.
Dont go to another step before we done discussing the first.
You said you do not believe in the hadith, yet you cant even show me where in the Quran it says to pray 5 times per day!
Therefore, I noticed that you were either lying, or you are not aware that you need the Hadith to perform your prayers according tho what Muhammad prescribed.
You wont know what to say, how many times, etc!
It is all in the Hadith, and no where else!

Visit this website, a muslim one for that matter, and start to learn that you will not understand the Quran, or Muhammad, or Islam, if you say you deny the Hadith.

Are Hadith Necessary? An Examination of the Authority of Hadith in Islam | Yaqeen Institute for Islamic Research

As for Taquiah, all you have to do is to lie when you "defend Islam", like you are doing here, and Allah will give you a Quirat for your efford.

What is real Islam? What instrument of science do you use to measure if is real? What is the measurement unit to measure real?

 

[firedragon]

You said you do not believe in the hadith

Who said that?

You are the one who believes in hadith, then the next minute doesnt believe in the hadith.

You are trying your levels best to shift the burden of proof, create strawman arguments. All of that, because you have no clue about anything.

Why not try to learn something?

 

[firedragon]

As for Taquiah, all you have to do is to lie when you "defend Islam", like you are doing here, and Allah will give you a Quirat for your efford.

Which means you dont know what Taqeeyah is. If you know, please state the source of your knowledge, what is the meaning of the word, what is the theological meaning?

Obviously you have no clue so pretending to know you will shift to a strawman or a burden of proof fallacy.

GO ahead mate. Show your colours.

 

[SA Huguenot]

What is real Islam? What instrument of science do you use to measure if is real? What is the measurement unit to measure real?

Where do you get an instrument of science that can determine if Islam is real?
Another strawman.
if it comes to Islam, all you do is to read the Quran, and the hadith, and get a few books on the life of Muhammad.
What more do you need?
Now, Firedragon hates the idea that I can read the Hadith, WITHOUT A MUSLIM SCHOLAR TELLING ME WHAT I AM READING.
and then wants to tell me even though what I read in the Hadith is not true, he does not believe in the Hadith.
All the while he practices his religious rites which is ONLY FOUND IN THE HADITH!!!

As I said, the snake is eating its own tail.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Which means you dont know what Taqeeyah is. If you know, please state the source of your knowledge, what is the meaning of the word, what is the theological meaning?

Obviously you have no clue so pretending to know you will shift to a strawman or a burden of proof fallacy.

GO ahead mate. Show your colours.

if anyone should show his colors, it should be Muhammad.
Muslims portray him as a wonderfull man, whilst I could not find any such evidence.
I found that he was a tribal warlord, who attacked people in the dead of night, claiming they waged war against Allah, (only because they did not believe he was a prophet) then beheaded all the men, had his Muslim horde raping the women, before taking them off to be sold as sex slaves after he took the nicest women for himself as sex slaves.

Now, Taquiah is the practice where Muslims know what I am talking about, and they think the world of Muhammad, and are in awe of these things he did...
yet they would fight to the death to prevent me telling this to anyone.

I have not said a single thing which you dont know, which you are fighting me for saying.
Taquiah...Taquiah...!

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Where do you get an instrument of science that can determine if Islam is real?
Another strawman.
if it comes to Islam, all you do is to read the Quran, and the hadith, and get a few books on the life of Muhammad.
What more do you need?
Now, Firedragon hates the idea that I can read the Hadith, WITHOUT A MUSLIM SCHOLAR TELLING ME WHAT I AM READING.
and then wants to tell me even though what I read in the Hadith is not true, he does not believe in the Hadith.
All the while he practices his religious rites which is ONLY FOUND IN THE HADITH!!!

As I said, the snake is eating its own tail.

Well, there is no The Hadith. There are several traditions for that and how to read them. So if you claim you have the correct hadith you are no different than any other Muslim that does that. In effect you are doing a Muslim tradition and fight the other Muslims over what is Real Islam. But I thought, you wasn't a Muslim?

You are doing the Martin Luther tradition of being your own priest. That is okay as long as you don't claim that you are my priest. Because I am also a Protestant and my own priest.
Well, the fun world of different cultures where mine is the Real One.

 

[firedragon]

I have not said a single thing which you dont know, which you are fighting me for saying.
Taquiah...Taquiah...!

Lol. So since you have studied so much, and have all kinds of books, which book did you study about Taqeeyah? It was you who brought it up so show us this scholarly work you studied on it. I told you that you will create a strawman, shift the burden etc, and to show your colours, and you showed your colours.

You gave a strawman, and shifted the burden.

So again, which book did you study about Taqeeyah?

 

[firedragon]

Now, Taquiah is the practice where Muslims know what I am talking about, and they think the world of Muhammad, and are in awe of these things he did...
yet they would fight to the death to prevent me telling this to anyone.

Mindbogglingly, childishly, cheaply, fake. I mean in this world there good fakes some people purchase for quite a price. I have seen street vendors selling fake watches for like 200 dollars.

But this is very cheap fake. Not worth a penny.

Mate. This is not Taqeeyah. Open your so called famous books you have studied. Read this out to me. Go ahead.

 

[firedragon]

if it comes to Islam, all you do is to read the Quran, and the hadith, and get a few books on the life of Muhammad.
What more do you need?

You need to know, that even the most dogmatic, hardcore, extremely and fanatically hadith believing, maula type muslim will never in their life believe all the ahadith. So you are more extreme, more hardcore, and more fanatical than any muslim in the whole world to believe any hadith you pick up as "Historically valid" enough to quote one, and stand on in as absolutely historic. You are much much more fanatical than any muslim I have ever heard of in my whole life.

This is not the Islamic method. You have built your own Islamic sect.

1. No muslim in the world believes in all the hadith.
2. Most of the hadith you find in the whole are fake "according to Muslims".
3. Its recorded for "Study if Ilmal ahadith", a science of hadith.
4. The Qur'an is considered Muhaimunun wa Furqaan in ahadith. The Supervisor and Criterion.
5. They use the primary manner of Qur'an bi Qur'an to study the Qur'an. Everyone does.

Your so called "True Islam" methodology is as ignorant as a child who cannot count but says "I watched the stars last night, so I am now an astro physicist".

 

[SA Huguenot]

Well, there is no The Hadith. There are several traditions for that and how to read them. So if you claim you have the correct hadith you are no different than any other Muslim that does that. In effect you are doing a Muslim tradition and fight the other Muslims over what is Real Islam. But I thought, you wasn't a Muslim?

You are doing the Martin Luther tradition of being your own priest. That is okay as long as you don't claim that you are my priest. Because I am also a Protestant and my own priest.
Well, the fun world of different cultures where mine is the Real One.

Well, then you have to pick and choose between the already colelcted "Correct" traditions collected by Muslim scholars.
I love the way Muslims dont like some traditions, and loves the next.

This is the reason why Muslims have to jiggle and wiggle.
The Quran can not be understood without the hadith, but the Quran is a very bad book with the interperetation of the Hadith.
Thats why Muslims needs to create some "science" in interperating the Hadith and the Quran.
You need a whole bunch of previous islamic scholars to tell you the best of explanations, to get out of the bad reality of what the Quran and Hadith tells us.
Hundreds of years of excuse after excust, then we call it the science of interperating the Hadith, because we now can show what a peacefull book the Quran is.

In the meantime, the Islamic scholars sits in the Mosques and teaches "Real" Muslims to fight and to wage war against the West, untill only Islam is left.
In your madrassas you sprout Jihadi's and suicide bombers, with the nicely formulated "Science" from your Hadith.
My friend,
You dont need to try to teach me about the true Islam you want to sell, no, go to the islamic terrorists that kills, rapes, and decapitated people for 1450 years.
Even now in Africa, in Mocambique, and Somalia, and Nigeria Muslims are practicing the Quran and Hadith.
Go there and tell them they are wrong.
Or go to Iraque, and Iran, and tell them the Hadith is wrong.

lets see what they do to you?

 

[SA Huguenot]

Mindbogglingly, childishly, cheaply, fake. I mean in this world there good fakes some people purchase for quite a price. I have seen street vendors selling fake watches for like 200 dollars.

But this is very cheap fake. Not worth a penny.

Mate. This is not Taqeeyah. Open your so called famous books you have studied. Read this out to me. Go ahead.

Carry on to lie about Islam, Taquiah, taquiah!
You are getting one quirat everytime you try to convince me I am wrong. Allah writes up huge credits for you in the book the Angels carry with them.