ISIL, Taliban = True Islam??

[firedragon]

Salam

I don't accept it.

Okay. So then that's it. tell this guy who is demeaning Ali who believed the Quran was corrupted according his so called "study of ahadith".

Do that first, and we can have our own dialogue.

 

[Link]

Okay. So then that's it. tell this guy who is demeaning Ali who believed the Quran was corrupted according his so called "study of ahadith".

Do that first, and we can have our own dialogue.

Most hadiths about Tahrif if not all, can be said to be about interpretation. Some scholars (very few) of Shiites took them literally and believed really corruption took place with Quran.

So this was to our shame and I apologize on their behalf.

 

[firedragon]

I was saying this to the non-Muslim brother where I mentioned you but was quoting him. I was trying to clarify I was trying to say hadiths are for insights not to be blindly followed (clarifying to you what I was saying to him in the first place). Actually most Muslims Shiites and Sunnis rely on Ilmel Rijaal.

No they dont. they dont rely on Ilme rijaal. They rely on many things. Rijaal, Sanad, Akal, Idhadh, Sarih, Seerah al raawy, thadhlees, Tharika etc.

Sorry bro. You are not complete.

 

[Link]

No they dont. they dont rely on Ilme rijaal. They rely on many things. Rijaal, Sanad, Akal, Idhadh, Sarih, Seerah al raawy, thadhlees, Tharika etc.

Sorry bro. You are not complete.

Ilmel Rijaal is study of all that.

Anyways, you are correct that Quran is the standard, but it unfortunately has not guided us because humans aren't sincere to it.

 

[Link]

Salam

@firedragon, how do you propose we solve our own backyard in this regard since most Muslims seem to still believe in enforcing apostasy (death to Muslim apostates)?

We both are trying, but, this forum can't do much, if you know what I mean.

What should we do?

 

[firedragon]

Most hadiths about Tahrif if not all, can be said to be about interpretation. Some scholars (very few) of Shiites took them literally and believed really corruption took place with Quran.

So this was to our shame and I apologize on their behalf.

Bro. No tom, dick or harry takes them literally. Do you really think that I think Shii's are dumb and stupid?

Shii's, Sunni's, and all the rest of them are absolutely philosophical human beings. Its just that, one has to seriously listen a bit. No one recognises these ahadith as absolutely historical. they are recorded simply to study.

Why in the world do you think Shii's have volumes of ahadith from Abu HUrrairah? you know that the Shii's dont believe in any Abu Hurraira ahadith? So why do they store them and cherish them? Link. most of Abu Hurrairas ahadith were recorded in Shii sources. Just because they wanted to study them. Not because they are all authentic.

Because they want to study them. Not because the worship them.

This guy is a fake hater who puts up porno pictures of your prophet. And he claims he studies everything. has no clue of anything. Just because a hadith is recorded somewhere, no Muslim, be it Shii, Sunni, or anything else values these unauthentic hadith. But this guy does.

Why? Because his lifes intention is to demonises all kinds of Islam.

So dont just jump into a discussion, and try to deviated it by making a strawman argument. Think a little prior to making your statements.

Have a nice day.

 

[firedragon]

Ilmel Rijaal is study of all that.

No its not. What in the world are you talking about mate?

Bro. Please make some study. And if you really want to discuss Ulumul ahadith, lets discuss in a new discussion. Please dont make this kind of statement. Good God.

 

[Link]

Bro. No tom, dick or harry takes them literally. Do you really think that I think Shii's are dumb and stupid?

Shii's, Sunni's, and all the rest of them are absolutely philosophical human beings. Its just that, one has to seriously listen a bit. No one recognises these ahadith as absolutely historical. they are recorded simply to study.

Why in the world do you think Shii's have volumes of ahadith from Abu HUrrairah? you know that the Shii's dont believe in any Abu Hurraira ahadith? So why do they store them and cherish them? Link. most of Abu Hurrairas ahadith were recorded in Shii sources. Just because they wanted to study them. Not because they are all authentic.

Because they want to study them. Not because the worship them.

This guy is a fake hater who puts up porno pictures of your prophet. And he claims he studies everything. has no clue of anything. Just because a hadith is recorded somewhere, no Muslim, be it Shii, Sunni, or anything else values these unauthentic hadith. But this guy does.

Why? Because his lifes intention is to demonises all kinds of Islam.

So dont just jump into a discussion, and try to deviated it by making a strawman argument. Think a little prior to making your statements.

Have a nice day.

Salam

Okay, sorry brother, my bad.

I will try to better reply next time.

 

[Link]

Salam

Anyways, I think our discussion clarified the issue of hadiths, Quran and the studies related to it so good came out of it.

 

[firedragon]

Salam

Anyways, I think our discussion clarified the issue of hadiths, Quran and the studies related to it so good came out of it.

Wait till this person responds. He believes in only his cherry picked hadith. Just one or two. One of them is a hadith that says Imam Ali said that Quran had two verses added to the Quran. Brotherman, I have very good knowledge on what he is talking about, who propagated it etc. So wait till he presents his argument. He never will. He is an absolutely false human being.

Second, he speaks of Taqeeyah. And you know what Taqeeyah is . So dont argue with me, but wait till this guy comes up with what thaqeeyah is. Let him explain from scholar sources he "Claims to study".

Do you understand?

 

[Link]

Wait till this person responds. He believes in only his cherry picked hadith. Just one or two. One of them is a hadith that says Imam Ali said that Quran had two verses added to the Quran. Brotherman, I have very good knowledge on what he is talking about, who propagated it etc. So wait till he presents his argument. He never will. He is an absolutely false human being.

Second, he speaks of Taqeeyah. And you know what Taqeeyah is . So dont argue with me, but wait till this guy comes up with what thaqeeyah is. Let him explain from scholar sources he "Claims to study".

Do you understand?

Yeah brother, but it's not good to focus time with people like him. Prophet (s) the best arguer was told to turn away from those who aren't striving for truth and not to waste his time but devote his time mostly to educating believers (while just warning disbelievers).

 

[firedragon]

Yeah brother, but it's not good to focus time with people like him. Prophet (s) the best arguer was told to turn away from those who aren't striving for truth and not to waste his time but devote his time mostly to educating believers (while just warning disbelievers).

Sometimes bro, you have to show hard when someone is just lying. But you are right, sometimes its better leave it.

 

[Link]

Sometimes bro, you have to show hard when someone is just lying. But you are right, sometimes its better leave it.

You keep people honest, but you might burn out brother. Better focus on what brings about some good change.

Help me by having your own new thread where you show eloquence from God in Quran you perceive.

I'm sure a lot of people will enjoy your insights.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Okay.

there is a hadith, proposed by this so called student of Islam or Islamic pseudo scholar who has read all the books, that Imam Ali rejected two verses of the Surah atthauba.

So what do you say about this from a Shii point of view?

The Question was asked to you too, can you explain the reason fir Sunni and Shia Islam?

And what is wrong with being a Shia?

 

[SA Huguenot]

This guy is a fake hater who puts up porno pictures of your prophet. And he claims he studies everything. has no clue of anything. Just because a hadith is recorded somewhere, no Muslim, be it Shii, Sunni, or anything else values these unauthentic hadith. But this guy does.

I did that because you continiously derailed any debate, and continiued to post the same "Biblical contradictions" over and Over thinking you won some argument.
I told you a few times, lets open another thread where we can discuss the so called errors in the Bible, but asked you again and again, to answer my questions.
You couldnt, you continioued to troll me, then I posted the cartoon of Muhammad who married a 9 year old Aisha.

And you now make it out as if everyone should feel sorry for you and your feelings, whilst you insulted Jesus and YHWH continiously.
So far you only acchieved to make personal insults, and not a single constructive remark where you could show me I am wrong.

Anyhow, dont make yourself out as a victim.
this question on this forum was to ask if ISIS and Islamic terrorists are Muslims, and I showed they are, because they got their religion from the Quran and Hadith.
Short and simple.

Now, you can insult, threaten, bully and accuse as much as you want, but these terrorists are Muslim, accept it and go to them to change their religious views.
Greetings

 

[firedragon]

I did that because you continiously derailed any debate, and continiued to post the same "Biblical contradictions" over and Over thinking you won some argument.
I told you a few times, lets open another thread where we can discuss the so called errors in the Bible, but asked you again and again, to answer my questions.
You couldnt, you continioued to troll me, then I posted the cartoon of Muhammad who married a 9 year old Aisha.

And you now make it out as if everyone should feel sorry for you and your feelings, whilst you insulted Jesus and YHWH continiously.
So far you only acchieved to make personal insults, and not a single constructive remark where you could show me I am wrong.

Anyhow, dont make yourself out as a victim.
this question on this forum was to ask if ISIS and Islamic terrorists are Muslims, and I showed they are, because they got their religion from the Quran and Hadith.
Short and simple.

Now, you can insult, threaten, bully and accuse as much as you want, but these terrorists are Muslim, accept it and go to them to change their religious views.
Greetings

Please explain your Thaqeeya idea form some of your books with direct reference.

Why are you ignoring this question? Is it because you have no clue but you just said it because you heard it form somewhere?

Try. And if you dont know what you are talking about, just say so.

Lets hear it.

 

[KWED]

Why are you ignoring this question? Is it because you have no clue but you just said it because you heard it form somewhere?

 

[Link]

There is Islam as is.
There is Islam as ought to be.

Islam as is (Muslim various interpretations) disagrees on what Islam ought to be.

 

[firedragon]

There is Islam as is.
There is Islam as ought to be.

Islam as is (Muslim various interpretations) disagrees on what Islam ought to be.

Link. could you try and explain to this pseudo scholar of Islam what Thaqeeya is so that he understands?

He just said it, I asked him like 10 times to explain, but obviously since he has no clue about any thing he will never explain his red herring.

Peace.

 

[Link]

Link. could you try and explain to this pseudo scholar of Islam what Thaqeeya is so that he understands?

He just said it, I asked him like 10 times to explain, but obviously since he has no clue about any thing he will never explain his red herring.

Peace.

Taqiya is complicated. Sometimes like Khomeini (q) explained, even if we are going to die for the truth, sometimes we have to say it if it's beneficial for the community and the loss in community occurs if no one speaks truth.

It depends on circumstances. As you know the extreme case is when a believer hid his faith among the Auli-Firon. A less extreme example was that believers were told to hide their faith in Mecca early on to not be tortured or killed. However some were caught meeting about Quran and so this doesn't always work perfectly.

We are taught to pray in Du'as regarding Imam Mahdi (a) for example "And make us (o God) of those who have no need of Taqiya from your servants"

This is the ideal. Taqiya is a forced stance where we have to speak falsehood to save our or other lives.

However - like Imam Hussain (a) showed in Sermon of Mina, it can't be love of Dunya and fear of death that we don't speak truth against tyrants and we have to lead people to truth against oppressors.

So this has limits. It depends on circumstances.

Salams bro.