ISIS creates sex slave jail with Yezidi women

[Avi1001]

What does that look like? How many innocents would suffer or die in the interim?

That is precisely what warfare is in the 21st century...and we have not figured it out yet....btw, what is our military budget ?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What does that look like? How many innocents would suffer or die in the interim?

How many are going to continue to suffer and die because we are only doing the same 'ole tried-and-failed method of dropping bombs, sending troops in with guns blazing, and returning home only to find a new group has emerged, possibly more violent and crazy than the last?

 

[Sees]

And what exactly did those people of action accomplish after 9/11? What did those people of action accomplish with the invasion of Iraq? A course of action isn't always going in head first with guns blazing. A good strategy will probably have no room for it. Action must include more than just killing or we can only expect more killing to happen.

Has the world ever been any different outside of chit-chat? Some people will need killing, always.

OIF was a lot different than pro and anti media portrays it...we were in and out of surrounding countries, our officialy friendly allies of surrounding countries were sending the most insurgents, etc. People are just happy and content to point fingers and say oil over and over again. It's really about the whole Middle East and preventing monsters of legendary proportion. Iraq was just a proof of concept and staging grounds and we are just taking a break, not stopping.

Certain ideologies will happily burn the world.

 

[Sha'irullah]

ISIS is heavily backed by the youth and it is showing. The Khalifa delusion is strong in many of it's members and their actions are extremely childish. Sex slaves and slaughtering people of their own religion.
ISIS is doing no good and even by Islamic standards these guys are brutal. It is just sad that so many Islamic clergy have installed their youth with this sort of nonsense.

 

[icehorse]

It starts with an honest appraisal of what they're taught, what they believe, and what their values are.

When an Islamist says "We love death more than you love life" (e.g. martyrdom), we don't believe them. I think it's about time we started believing them. Why do we act as though when kids are repeatedly exposed to a violent, intolerant book at an early age, there won't be any consequences?

(I've had many, many conversations about the nature of the Quran, and in EVERY CASE, defenders of the book must engage in complex, historically informed, awkwardly contextualized explanations to tease out peaceful interpretations. There is NO WAY that small children are capable of such mental gymnastics.)

 

[LuisDantas]

They don't offer choice.

It is possible to deny them choice as well, if it comes to that, without necessarily killing them. If nothing else, it should be possible to deny them supplies.

 

[dawny0826]

That is precisely what warfare is in the 21st century...and we have not figured it out yet....btw, what is our military budget ?

List of countries by military expenditures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You didn't answer either question.

 

[LuisDantas]

What does that look like? How many innocents would suffer or die in the interim?

How many will (and did) due to the insistence in sending troops to deal with people with similar perspectives? That has only fed their convictions.

 

[LuisDantas]

It starts with an honest appraisal of what they're taught, what they believe, and what their values are.

When an Islamist says "We love death more than you love life" (e.g. martyrdom), we don't believe them. I think it's about time we started believing them. Why do we act as though when kids are repeatedly exposed to a violent, intolerant book at an early age, there won't be any consequences?

(I've had many, many conversations about the nature of the Quran, and in EVERY CASE, defenders of the book must engage in complex, historically informed, awkwardly contextualized explanations to tease out peaceful interpretations. There is NO WAY that small children are capable of such mental gymnastics.)

It may well be that you are right, and in that case we should attempt to reach an understanding with the run-of-the-mill Muslim communities on the matter.

 

[dawny0826]

How many are going to continue to suffer and die because we are only doing the same 'ole tried-and-failed method of dropping bombs, sending troops in with guns blazing, and returning home only to find a new group has emerged, possibly more violent and crazy than the last?

Strategic eradication would do the job, right?

I was under the impression that you didn't have enough information about ISIS to support such violence.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Has the world ever been any different outside of chit-chat? Some people will need killing, always.

OIF was a lot different than pro and anti media portrays it...we were in and out of surrounding countries, our officialy friendly allies of surrounding countries were sending the most insurgents, etc. People are just happy and content to point fingers and say oil over and over again. It's really about the whole Middle East and preventing monsters of legendary proportion. Iraq was just a proof of concept and staging grounds and we are just taking a break, not stopping.

Certain ideologies will happily burn the world.

America launched a "war on terrorism," and invaded Iraq. It dealt a blow to Al Qaeda, it removed Saddam from power and executed him, and now groups like Boko Haram and ISIS have risen to power. So our options are go in an eliminate ISIS, and then eliminate their successor, and their successor's successor, and so on. Or cull the herd as needed and work on solutions that prevent such groups from causing so much destruction.

 

[LuisDantas]

Strategic eradication would do the job, right?

Has it ever? Would it even be a good thing if it did?

 

[dawny0826]

How many will (and did) due to the insistence in sending troops to deal with people with similar perspectives? That has only fed their convictions.

Do you really think it matters what has been done to them by military troops? They've declared a world-wide jihad. Think about that.

 

[LuisDantas]

Do you really think it matters what has been done to them by military troops?

You mean you do not?

Of course it matters. Every soldier shooting at them reinforces their conviction that they must fight to the death for their cause.

They've declared a world-wide jihad. Think about that.

So?

 

[dawny0826]

How many will (and did) due to the insistence in sending troops to deal with people with similar perspectives? That has only fed their convictions.

No. Their convictions aren't influenced by others. They already perceive the world as belonging under a radical Islamic state.

It's foolish to front as if such people - such insane people - could be rationally understood and dealt with.

 

[dawny0826]

You mean you do not?

Of course it matters. Every soldier shooting at them reinforces their conviction that they must fight to the death for their cause.

So?

What drives them at this juncture is their insistance upon converting the world into a radical, Islamic state.

Their own depravity first and foremost drives their decisions.

 

[Avi1001]

No. Their convictions aren't influenced by others. They already perceive the world as belonging under a radical Islamic state.

It's foolish to front as if such people - such insane people - could be rationally understood and dealt with.

Right....and just as foolish to believe sending in a traditional force will help. The best example I can give is the force we used to get Osama. Small, efficient, well trained.

 

[icehorse]

America launched a "war on terrorism," and invaded Iraq. It dealt a blow to Al Qaeda, it removed Saddam from power and executed him, and now groups like Boko Haram and ISIS have risen to power. So our options are go in an eliminate ISIS, and then eliminate their successor, and their successor's successor, and so on. Or cull the herd as needed and work on solutions that prevent such groups from causing so much destruction.

Hmmm. How about launching a "war on ignorance"? How about if we start showering the population with education and food? Notice how the Taliban (for example), react violently to the idea of education for girls. This is the peaceful superpower - give the kids a decent education. This will naturally undermine totalitarian ideologies.

 

[LuisDantas]

No. Their convictions aren't influenced by others. They already perceive the world as belonging under a radical Islamic state.

It's foolish to front as if such people - such insane people - could be rationally understood and dealt with.

That may well be. But I will be darned if I will believe that just because it makes things simpler. I will need evidence. Lots of it and very convincing. And I shall test it.

 

[Avi1001]

Hmmm. How about launching a "war on ignorance"? How about if we start showering the population with education and food? Notice how the Taliban (for example), react violently to the idea of education for girls. This is the peaceful superpower - give the kids a decent education. This will naturally undermine totalitarian ideologies.

I didn't see anyone say education and food are sufficient to solve the problem.....but we also know the air and ground forces don't work.