Islam: Ask your questions

[Sahar]

To say that as of now, only Prophet Muhammad's external Shariat is valid is egoistic. This is what I am referring to. To a Hindu, I say become a true Hindu and that will be automatically Islam (regardless of non-usage of His term Islam), to a Christian, become a true Christian and that will automatically Islam and so on.

You failed to address the Ayaat that clearly called those who disobey Muhammad as "disbelievers". Your view contradict the Qur'an outright. The Qur'an is the Muslim's reference.

If someone says all other theologies are incorrect, all other Jurisprudences are incorrect and the one followed by Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is the only valid one today, then I will say this is being egoistic.

This is the view of the Qur'an...if it's egoistic let it be...

64. And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allāh. And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muúammad], and asked forgiveness of Allāh and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allāh Accepting of repentance and Merciful.
An-Nisa'

32. Say, "Obey Allāh and the Messenger." But if they turn away – then indeed, Allāh does not like the disbelievers.
ِAl-Baqarah

65. But no, by your Lord, they will not [truly] believe until they make you, [O Muúammad], judge concerning that over which they dispute among themselves and then find within themselves no discomfort from what you have judged and submit in [full, willing] submission.

19. O People of the Scripture, there has come to you Our Messenger to make clear to you [the religion] after a period [of suspension] of messengers, lest you say, "There came not to us any bringer of good tidings or a warner." But there has come to you a bringer of good tidings and a warner. And Allāh is over all things competent.
Al-Ma'idah

Nothing to add after these Ayaat.

 

[A-ManESL]

You failed to address the Ayaat that clearly called those who disobey Muhammad as "disbelievers". Your view contradict the Qur'an outright. The Qur'an is the Muslim's reference.

Which verse? Are you talking of this one:
64. And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allāh. And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muúammad], and asked forgiveness of Allāh and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allāh Accepting of repentance and Merciful.
An-Nisa'


My point is that Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) never asked true followers of other religions to give up their faiths. Hence they were not disobeying him. The true followers are referred to in verses 2:62, 3:113-114 etc. He only asked those who were doing mock worship to give up their ways. This is the the group condemned in the Quran. For true followers, there was no such proclamation that they have to adopt the Islamic Shariat. The Prophet never said, that only those who are following my Shariat are correct and all other people around the world are wrong. In fact regarding Jews he said that the Jewish tribes were "one community with the believers," but they "have their religion and the Muslims have theirs". (Jonathan Berkey, The Formation of Islam: Religion and Society in the Near East, 600-1800, Cambridge University Press, p.64). Similarly he was very cordial towards Christianity as well, sending this letter to the monks of Mount Sinai.

To say that my views contradict the Quran outright is not good. Whatever I know is based on the Quran and to the best of my ability I am following it.

God knows best.

Regards.

 

[Sahar]

I re-quoted like 4 ayaat?

64. And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allāh. And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muúammad], and asked forgiveness of Allāh and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allāh Accepting of repentance and Merciful.
An-Nisa'

32. Say, "Obey Allāh and the Messenger." But if they turn away – then indeed, Allāh does not like the disbelievers.
ِAl-Baqarah

65. But no, by your Lord, they will not [truly] believe until they make you, [O Muúammad], judge concerning that over which they dispute among themselves and then find within themselves no discomfort from what you have judged and submit in [full, willing] submission.

19. O People of the Scripture, there has come to you Our Messenger to make clear to you [the religion] after a period [of suspension] of messengers, lest you say, "There came not to us any bringer of good tidings or a warner." But there has come to you a bringer of good tidings and a warner. And Allāh is over all things competent.
Al-Ma'idah

He asked those who were doing mock worship to give up their ways.

They Ayaat don't say so. It didn't specify those who were "doing mock worship". The ayat are very inclusive.
So when Muhammad says pray five times and the hindu or the Christian says no I won't, this isn't disobedience...interesting!!

But as for true followers, there is no such proclaimation.

Not true, the entire conversation between the Qur'an and the Jews was centered about following Muhammad. Why would the Qur'an do this if being a Jew was okay?

In fact regarding Jews he said that the Jewish tribes were "one community with the believers," but they "have their religion and the Muslims have theirs".

Wow, now you're confusing issues. The Qur'an affirms that believing in God's final message must not be through compulsion. Thus any call for this message should be through wisdom and beautiful preach. And the messenger's job was to convey the message only. Whether they believed or not, Allah will judge them.
So the Qur'an showed what is the right path and what isn't, what is true belief and what is not and did call all the people to follow and obey Muhammad. But this doesn't mean we should eradicate people because they didn't believe. The prophet Muhammad (the believer's example) did call the Jews and others to accept his final message but at the same time he treated them with justice and compassion. Nothing is contradicting.
I think this confusion on your side tells we can't be kind and just unless we acknowledge the validity of other people's religions. This is completely untrue.

 

[Sahar]

The following Ayaat speak about specific laws (external traditions):

187. It has been made permissible for you the night preceding fasting to go to your wives [for sexual relations]. They are clothing for you and you are clothing for them. Allāh knows that you used to deceive yourselves, so He accepted your repentance and forgave you. So now, have relations with them and seek that which Allāh has decreed for you. And eat and drink until the white thread of dawn becomes distinct to you from the black thread [of night]. Then complete the fast until the sunset. And do not have relations with them as long as you are staying for worship in the mosques. These are the limits [set by] Allāh, so do not approach them. Thus does Allāh make clear His ordinances to the people that they may become righteous.
Al-Baqarah
Note Allah called these external traditions of Muhammad "limits of Allah", moreover the law was directed to all the people. Now, when someone reject following these laws and doesn't respect the limits of Allah, this is far away from being a Muslim.

229. Divorce is twice. Then, either keep [her] in an acceptable manner or release [her] with good treatment. And it is not lawful for you to take anything of what you have given them unless both fear that they will not be able to keep [within] the limits of Allāh. But if you fear that they will not keep [within] the limits of Allāh, then there is no blame upon either of them concerning that by which she ransoms herself. These are the limits of Allāh, so do not transgress them. And whoever transgresses the limits of Allāh – it is those who are the wrongdoers.
Al-Baqarah
Again, the same thing. These laws are limits of Allah. Not following them is transgression and wrongdoing.

11.Allāh instructs you concerning your children: for the male, what is equal to the share of two females. But if there are [only] daughters, two or more, for them is two thirds of one's estate...Then
13. These are the limits [set by] Allāh, and whoever obeys Allāh and His Messenger will be admitted by Him to gardens [in Paradise] under which rivers flow, abiding eternally therein; and that is the great attainment.
An-Nisa

4. And he who does not find [a slave] – then a fast for two months consecutively before they touch one another; and he who is unable – then the feeding of sixty poor persons. That is for you to believe [completely] in Allāh and His Messenger; and those are the limits [set by] Allāh. And for the disbelievers is a painful punishment.
Al-Mujadalah

Specific laws that must be obeyed. If God didn't want people to follow them, why did He call those who don't "transgressors", "wrongdoers" and "disbelievers"? Why did He call the laws "limits of Allah" (not external traditions of Muhammad that are not necessary to be followed)?

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

Keep up the good work sister Sahar

May Allah reward you

 

[Rainbow Mage]

So anyone going to answer my question about Pagans living in an Islamic society?

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

Prove that you have no hidden agenda behind it and that youre not waiting our answers to start belitteling us in another thread of yours

Then we see..

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I have no hidden agenda behind it. Notice I haven't replied to any of those threads in quite sometime. Besides, I apologized to you guys. I am just honestly trying to understand you guys better.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

Okey Inshallah Ill try to look on the Internet for some informations about it as Im not knowledgeable about rulings related to non Muslims in Islam in a Muslim society.

So Ill do my best Inshallah when I finish revising for my exam

 

[Sahar]

Keep up the good work sister Sahar

May Allah reward you

Allah yekremek ya 7abibty. Jazaki Allahu khayran

 

[beenie]

Okay, I suppose I have a question, since I am trying to be more understanding of Muslims. How do Muslims treat Pagans in an Islamic country? Like would a Pagan be allowed to live and keep our religion?

So anyone going to answer my question about Pagans living in an Islamic society?

according to Qur'an, yes:
"For you is your religion, and for me is my religion." (Qur'an 109:6)

"Let there be no compulsion in religion. ... "(Quran 3:20)

these two ayahs command us to allow people of other faiths to live amongst us, and that we are not to force our religion upon them. as far as i understand it, of course you can keep your own religion, but you are not allowed to try and convert Muslims.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

That's according to the Quran alone, but what about according to scholars? Isn't what scholars say what really matters when it comes to Islamic law?

 

[beenie]

That's according to the Quran alone, but what about according to scholars? Isn't what scholars say what really matters when it comes to Islamic law?

ideally, scholars should be using Qur'an as its source.

 

[bhaktajan]

Okay, I suppose I have a question,

Please inform me if these Koran verses were properly translated ---or if they are 'mis-information'.

I found them posted on the web.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
“Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood.” Koran 9:123

"Fight and slay the Non-believers wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war" - Koran 9:05

“When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them.” Koran 9:5

“Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable.” Koran 3:85

“The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them.” Koran 9:30

“Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam” Koran 5:33

“Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.” Koran 22:19

"They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy - Koran 33:061

“Muslims must not take the infidels as friends.” Koran 3:28

“Terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an.” Koran 8:12

“Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.” Koran 8:60

 

[A-ManESL]

Wow, now you're confusing issues. The Qur'an affirms that believing in God's final message must not be through compulsion. Thus any call for this message should be through wisdom and beautiful preach. And the messenger's job was to convey the message only. Whether they believed or not, Allah will judge them.

All that is okay, but you fail to acknowledge that if the Prophet said that Jews are one community with the believers and they have their own religion and the Muslims have theirs this is precisely what I am saying. If I understand you correctly you claim that a neccessary condition for believers is that they follow the Muslim Shariat and not some other Shariat such as Jews. I fail to understand how the Prophets statement fails to contradict yours. If you say that I am outright contradicting the Quran by your logic so is the Prophets statement!

 

[Sahar]

All that is okay, but you fail to acknowledge that if the Prophet said that Jews are one community with the believers and they have their own religion and the Muslims have theirs this is precisely what I am saying.

Not really. You are suggesting that because the believers and non believers share the same country and state, it must mean each side acknowledges the validity of the religious beliefs and laws of the other side. The Qur'an didn't acknowledge rejection of the Jews to follow the final messenger. But it also said that there is no compulsion in religion. And to deal kindly and justly with the non Muslims who don't fight and oppress us. Working with the different sections of the nation for the best interest of the state is different from saying that rejecting the Qur'an and its Shari'a is okay according to Islam.

If I understand you correctly you claim that a neccessary condition for believers is that they follow the Muslim Shariat and not some other Shariat such as Jews.

This is what the Qur'an clearly says, not me. Again, you chose to talk and to ignore the ayaat that run counter to your claims.

I believe I have nothing else to add. The Ayaat are very clear. Any talk after that will be only repetition.

 

[Onkara]

I think it is has been a useful discussion, Sahar and A-ManESL. This topic of how should Muslims relate to others, is a practical difficulty for people attracted to Islam but living with families from different faiths or in multicultural environments.

 

[dallas1125]

I have always wondered how mormons would fit in, in an Islamic state.

Just curious not a big question though.

 

[A-ManESL]

This is what the Qur'an clearly says, not me. Again, you chose to talk and to ignore the ayaat that run counter to your claims.

I dont think the Quran says so. 2:62, 3:113 etc would mean nothing if what you say is valid. The verse you cite has to interpreted in a certain sense, which you aren't doing so. It seems to me that we are both thinking the same thing about the other: that he/she is choosing to talk after ignoring the ayaat/hadith that run counter to his/her claims! Anyway, just so you know that what all I have said is not my own thesis but Maulana Abul Kalam Azad's thesis in tarjuman-al-Quran. So it is essentially an established scholar who you are saying is outright contradicting the Quran.

I believe I have nothing else to add. The Ayaat are very clear. Any talk after that will be only repetition.

Okay.

Regars

 

[chinu]

My question is: how much is much laughter, and how can one know what the boundary is?

One should laugh as much as he/she can,
But, never express, until it is decided with the "Heart", not "Mind",
Always tell your "Mind" that the "Joker" or "Comeadian" or "On what the laugh is being made" also have "Heart".

_/\_Chinu.