Islam: Ask your questions

[Godobeyer]

I've been told that there is a difference between people of the book and the kafir in that true kafir mock (make fun of) and try and harm Islam. I've been told that all my life, and that we people should never call anyone a kafir; that's only up to Allah because we never know what's in their hearts and they could convert and we've called them kafir.

we don't need to call them personely that they are kafir
that's hurt their feeling , even if they call us disbelievers (we don't believe in what they believe ) that hurt our feeling .

I'm only arguing that we should be very careful who we label kafir.

it's not very careful situation .
it's very easy situation , because there is only two kind of people in the earth
1- all the Muslims = believers
2- all the others religions are Kafir = disbelievers .

it's not me or you, who decide to call the faith of the people of the book : Kofer
it's Allah who called them Koofar .

Is there a difference between munafiq, mushrikeen, and kafir?

there is different
munafiq may repent Allah will forgive him
mushrikeen is Kofaar (disbelievers)
the Kafir : is the disbeliever .

 

[Godobeyer]

accuatly the word Kafir (cover the truth ) is close to used for the people of the book more then other
religions , why ?

because they know the truth about Muhammad and they hiding (cover ) it .

 

[illykitty]

Well I was expecting there to be disagreements. It's just like what I read. There's loads of different people with different ideas or interpretation of what Islam is and what is allowed that I feel it's overwhelming.

The marriage issue is the biggest issue for me. I can overlook other stuff but that is one that I can't really. I do not have children nor plan to have any ever (unless my motherly feelings kick in, atm I find children annoying, whiny and spoiled).

But he is VERY precious to me, I do not plan on divorcing. It would be silly! He's a great guy and it would be insane and scary... I love Islam but I don't have the heart to revert right now and stay with him. I'd feel like a hypocrite to say I follow all of it but this rule.

 

[Godobeyer]

Well I was expecting there to be disagreements. It's just like what I read. There's loads of different people with different ideas or interpretation of what Islam is and what is allowed that I feel it's overwhelming.

The marriage issue is the biggest issue for me. I can overlook other stuff but that is one that I can't really. I do not have children nor plan to have any ever (unless my motherly feelings kick in, atm I find children annoying, whiny and spoiled).

But he is VERY precious to me, I do not plan on divorcing. It would be silly! He's a great guy and it would be insane and scary... I love Islam but I don't have the heart to revert right now and stay with him. I'd feel like a hypocrite to say I follow all of it but this rule.

no it's not like that

the matter of this issue , should not considerate as opinion or feeliing
the matter of this issue should considerate as what God said (Quran) and his prophet (Hadith) , the Hadith and Quran both said it's not allowed to any muslimah to marry a non-muslim

for my opinion you need to check more about this issue , muslim sites that you trust or Imams ....etc

for my opinion too , if you considerate it as SIN maybe it's easy to considerate it as ALLOWED .

by the way i see only sister ssainhu which alllowed that a muslimah married non muslim .
if we count the majority don't .

 

[illykitty]

I personally see it as forbidden in Islam, so that is why I'm not reverting because if I did I would be sinning. I do not want to divorce him but do not want to sin. There's nothing I can do to satisfy both! He told me once he would convert to stay with me but that he would never follow Islam.

I very well know it's not opinion or feeling but I wanted to see if anyone could find legitimate reasons on why I would be able to stay with him and so far, I find none. There's only the opinion that he might convert if I set the example.

Nothing I found in texts said that I could be with him. I do not want to be a hypocrite Muslimah that is sinning. It sounds bad!

 

[Godobeyer]

I personally see it as forbidden in Islam,

so that is why I'm not reverting because if I did I would be sinning. I do not want to divorce him but do not want to sin. There's nothing I can do to satisfy both! He told me once he would convert to stay with me but that he would never follow Islam.

I very well know it's not opinion or feeling but I wanted to see if anyone could find legitimate reasons on why I would be able to stay with him and so far, I find none. There's only the opinion that he might convert if I set the example.

Nothing I found in texts said that I could be with him. I do not want to be a hypocrite Muslimah that is sinning. It sounds bad![/QUOTE]
sounds good that you know it's forbiden .

that's why i advise you to check more Imams (scholars ) sites , mosques anything ..... which will advise you , and to know if you are sinner or not , if you stay with him .

i had a question
because you love him you don't want to divorce or there is somthing else , kids ...etc ?

 

[illykitty]

I do not have children nor plan to have any (I do not like them but that could be just because my motherly instincts haven't started).

I do not want divorce because he is a good person and I love him.

 

[Badran]

it's very easy situation , because there is only two kind of people in the earth
1- all the Muslims = believers
2- all the others religions are Kafir = disbelievers .

Thats way too simplistic in my view. Not all Muslims are believers and not all non-Muslims are disbelievers. You don't seem to be putting intention in the equation properly.

To illustrate what i mean, what about a Muslim who refuses one of god's rules? That is Kufr, and so he technically would be a kafir too.

What i'm saying is it all comes down to intentions. If a person knowingly refuses something despite knowing, or believing that it is from god, then thats kufr.

there is different
munafiq may repent Allah will forgive him
mushrikeen is Kofaar (disbelievers)
the Kafir : is the disbeliever .

A mushrik is someone who specifically, according to my understanding, worships something else instead of, or alongside, god.

accuatly the word Kafir (cover the truth ) is close to used for the people of the book more then other
religions , why ?

because they know the truth about Muhammad and they hiding (cover ) it .

Are you saying that all Christians for example know that Muhammad (pbuh) is a true prophet, and that Islam is a true religion, the correct one that they should be following, but choose not to?

IOW, that all Christians are lying hypocrites?

If not, would you agree that its possible some of them are sincere?

If so, would you agree that god may not consider some of them as a Kafir?

In a nutshell again, what i'm saying is, i think it all comes down to the person's intentions. And so, any generalizations in this regard would be unfair.

 

[Godobeyer]

I do not have children nor plan to have any (I do not like them but that could be just because my motherly instincts haven't started).

I do not want divorce because he is a good person and I love him.

i don't want to anoying you or make sad
i am glad that you are muslimah , but for my opinion ,i guess you need to sacrfice for God .

i want to ask you other question , do you believe that the person should /could love 1 person in his entire life ?

 

[Godobeyer]

Thats way too simplistic in my view. Not all Muslims are believers and not all non-Muslims are disbelievers. You don't seem to be putting intention in the equation properly.


To illustrate what i mean, what about a Muslim who refuses one of god's rules? That is Kufr, and so he technically would be a kafir too.

What i'm saying is it all comes down to intentions. If a person knowingly refuses something despite knowing, or believing that it is from god, then thats kufr.

not all muslims are believers i understand it , but can you explain " how about not all non-muslims are disbelievers ".

A mushrik is someone who specifically, according to my understanding, worships something else instead of, or alongside, god.

yes

Are you saying that all Christians for example know that Muhammad (pbuh) is a true prophet, and that Islam is a true religion, the correct one that they should be following, but choose not to?

IOW, that all Christians are lying hypocrites?

If not, would you agree that its possible some of them are sincere?

If so, would you agree that god may not consider some of them as a Kafir?

In a nutshell again, what i'm saying is, i think it all comes down to the person's intentions. And so, any generalizations in this regard would be unfair.

i say the concept of Kafir , is close to the christians and jews more than the idolars , because the some jews and christians in past deny the truth , that's why God called them Kofar .

not me who called them .

 

[Badran]

not all muslims are believers i understand it , but can you explain " how about not all non-muslims are disbelievers ".

Thats the part i was trying to explain with the questions about Christians.

i say the concept of Kafir , is close to the christians and jews more than the idolars , because the some jews and christians in past deny the truth , that's why God called them Kofar .

not me who called them .

Would you agree then that some of them might not be kofar (in the sense i just explained)?

 

[Godobeyer]

Thats the part i was trying to explain with the questions about Christians.

you said that " not all non-muslims are disbelievers"
you mean the christains are believers?

Would you agree then that some of them might not be kofar (in the sense i just explained)?

no , the kofar had one MAJOR sense (meaning ) , which is : DISBELIEVER .
the second sense of "cover the truth " i guess , it's just efforts of the muslims scholars and i agree with it too .

 

[Badran]

you said that " not all non-muslims are disbelievers"
you mean the christains are believers?

No, i'm not saying that 'the Christians' are believers. Just like i don't agree that 'the Muslims' are believers.

I'll clarify what i am saying in the next part.

no , the kofar had one MAJOR sense (meaning ) , which is : DISBELIEVER .
the second sense of "cover the truth " i guess , it's just efforts of the muslims scholars and i agree with it too .

I agree with that, and its an effort based on the Quranic use of the word, by the way. However i asked a specific question. To put it differently, since we agree it has more than one meaning, and thus can be used in more than one sense, please read the following two articles (i quoted some parts to clarify what i'm saying, but please read the whole articles) which represent to a great extent my position on this:

The term kafir, referring to a person, or kufr, referring to an act, is used in the Qur'an in a variety of contextual meanings. This is why I hesitate to use even the terms non-believer or disbeliever for the translation, as is it is not clear from these English terms what is the object of unbelief or disbelief, it is God, a particular prophet, or others?

I would prefer to use the term non-Muslim, as it applies to various categories of kufr, whether it refers to knowingly rejecting the message of Islam (disbelief) or being a non-Muslim due to the lack of awareness of the authentic message of Islam (unbelief).

Nonetheless, we cannot clearly assess this situation. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) gave Muslims very clear instructions after one incident when people assumed to know why someone had professed belief in Islam. He asked them whether they had opened up his heart, and if they knew whether what was in his heart was sincere or not. The bottom line is that we have to leave judging people's faith to Allah; only Allah knows the sincerity of a particular person's acceptance. Allah is All-Knowing, and He is the only Judge of all of us.

Kuffar or Infidels? - FAQ - Shari`ah - OnIslam.net

That one up there is by Dr. Jamal Badawi, if you know him.

The other one:

Exegesis (tafseer) scholars decide as to which meaning of the word “kufr/kafir” is meant in a specific verse based on the context. Therefore, not every use of the root “ka fa ra” means the rejection of faith. For example, when the Prophet (peace be upon him) warned some of his companions from becoming “kuffar” after his death, he did not mean that they would become disbelievers but rather that they would become ungrateful to Allah, for the blessing of unity, when they fight each other after his death.

In the rest of the Qur’an, however, the Qur’anic style followed two principals:

1. To label certain sayings or actions to be sayings or actions of kufr (disbelief or rejection of faith), without labeling any specific group of people with that name and calling them with it. For example, the Qur’an says what means:
*{Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely God is the third [person] of the three. And there is no god but One God, and if they desist not from what they say, a painful chastisement shall befall those among them who disbelieve [reject]. Will they not then turn to Allah and ask His forgiveness? And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. The Messiah, son of Mary is but a messenger; messengers before him have indeed passed away; and his mother was a truthful woman.}* (Al-Ma’idah 5:73-75)

2. To distinguish clearly between idol-worshippers, on one hand, and believers in God and a Script that went through a phase of corruption, on the other hand. Allah called the later group only by the name “People of the Book.”

Finally, it is fair enough before labeling any person as a “rejecter of faith” to make sure that he/she is clearly aware of that faith and what it entails. In my view, most people in today’s world did not reject the message because simply they are not aware of what Islam is. This is largely due to the biased international media and to Muslims themselves falling short to present their religion properly to the world. These uninformed people, again in my view, could only fall under the verse that says what means:
*{No laden soul can bear another's load, We never punish until we have sent a messenger.}* (Al-Israa’ 17:15)

Defining the Kafirs (Infidels)? - Interfaith Issues - counsels - OnIslam.net

This last quoted part best represents my position, and best gives you an idea of what i'm trying to say.

 

[Godobeyer]

No, i'm not saying that 'the Christians' are believers. Just like i don't agree that 'the Muslims' are believers.

I'll clarify what i am saying in the next part.



I agree with that, and its an effort based on the Quranic use of the word, by the way. However i asked a specific question. To put it differently, since we agree it has more than one meaning, and thus can be used in more than one sense, please read the following two articles (i quoted some parts to clarify what i'm saying, but please read the whole articles) which represent to a great extent my position on this:





Kuffar or Infidels? - FAQ - Shari`ah - OnIslam.net

That one up there is by Dr. Jamal Badawi, if you know him.

The other one:







Defining the Kafirs (Infidels)? - Interfaith Issues - counsels - OnIslam.net

This last quoted part best represents my position, and best gives you an idea of what i'm trying to say.

look brother , if Allah ask them "the people of the book ", why you are takforon ?
which mean they are kofar .

how a scholars dare to said they are not Kofar ?!!!!

Mushrikin and People of the book , are Kofar , and i guess you know Arabic ?
and you know how it's spell by Allah in Arabic .

that's for links and the explaination , BUT the Quran was very clear about this .
if the Quran said , i could/should not follow scholars said other thing against what Allah said in Quran .

I know that the people of the book had a special case in Islam but they are disbelievers in the end (kofar) .

 

[illykitty]

i don't want to anoying you or make sad
i am glad that you are muslimah , but for my opinion ,i guess you need to sacrfice for God .

i want to ask you other question , do you believe that the person should /could love 1 person in his entire life ?

I believe someone can love 1 person their entire life, if they found the right one.

But should? No, that is up to each person and situation.

 

[Gharib]

I don't feel like making a thread for this so I'll ask here for the opinion of some fellow Muslims on these forums.

If I want to revert, can I remain with my husband, even if he's not wanting to convert or half heartedly would (just to remain with me)? Some people tell me it's ok and in some other cases say it's not ok, that a period needs to be observed and then divorce if no conversion.

Now I'm looking into getting answers from every kind of Muslims and personally if I were to revert, I'd be quite moderate. But I want to know what people here think of it. Also if what my Muslimah friend said was true... That there's more interfaith marriage and some imams nowdays say it's ok for them to remain together as the wife is an example for her husband and perhaps he will revert someday along the way.

Thank you for your answers!

Hi Illikity, I hope Allah guides to Islam and to that which is right.

I haven't read everything that has been posted in relation to your question by the other muslims, but I wanted to post a link that answers your question, if you have further questions please do ask further.

A Muslim Woman Married to a Non-Muslim: Is She Still Considered a Muslim? - Marital relationships - counsels - OnIslam.net

All the best to you, may Allah guide your husband to Islam also.

 

[illykitty]

Well yes, that is the conclusion I came to, as it is the opinion of most. I understand why it is prohibited but still it's a hard pill to swallow especially since I don't know how it applies to me. I don't plan on having children and he respects my decisions.

Well, I'm not sure if I want to revert, especially since we went through so much to be together and married. I love him so much! Islam is wonderful but this is just the bit that keeps me from embracing it.

He said he would convert but only to stay with me. He would not practise Islam. I know this isn't a real conversion thus it would still be a sinful marriage.

 

[Godobeyer]

I believe someone can love 1 person their entire life, if they found the right one.

But should? No, that is up to each person and situation.

love is for just one for entire life !!!
if this theory is correct , would be everyone a slave for his lover , because my heart creat for him

for my personal experience and other experience i saw with other people , it's false theory that someone can love JUST 1 peson in his entire life .

I know the love feeling is great and un-imaginal
(thinking about the lover 24/24 , love the dust of the lover, and cry for him , love the lover more than my self ...etc )
i admit it's uncontrol and great feeling , but how about if i told i feel it with many girls ?

for my pesonal experience i reach a conclusion that the love could be found in other person exactly and maybe more than the previous one .

 

[Godobeyer]

Well yes, that is the conclusion I came to, as it is the opinion of most. I understand why it is prohibited but still it's a hard pill to swallow especially since I don't know how it applies to me. I don't plan on having children and he respects my decisions.

Good decision you made ,to don't make with him kids until he convert to Islam .

Well, I'm not sure if I want to revert, especially since we went through so much to be together and married. I love him so much! Islam is wonderful but this is just the bit that keeps me from embracing it.

feel as you like embracing but just don't let this lose your faith and trust in God .
we are all sinners here , the best sinners whom ASK God to guider him/her and forgive him/her .

He said he would convert but only to stay with me. He would not practise Islam. I know this isn't a real conversion thus it would still be a sinful marriage.

I am , and all the brothers and sisters here surely will pray for you , to help you

for my opinion in your case ,he did not need to practise Islam for a while , he need just to say if he believe it " There is one God , and Muhammad His messanger " to be a muslim for two reasons :

1- to correct your mariage with him and then start get kids from him
2- save him from the INFINITY Hell .

 

[Badran]

look brother , if Allah ask them "the people of the book ", why you are takforon ?
which mean they are kofar .

how a scholars dare to said they are not Kofar ?!!!!

Mushrikin and People of the book , are Kofar , and i guess you know Arabic ?
and you know how it's spell by Allah in Arabic .

that's for links and the explaination , BUT the Quran was very clear about this .
if the Quran said , i could/should not follow scholars said other thing against what Allah said in Quran .

I know that the people of the book had a special case in Islam but they are disbelievers in the end (kofar) .

Thats fine, you are of course entitled to view it in whichever way.

I don't think you understood the articles properly though (just saying this so you could give them another look, or a proper look, if you want to).