Islam, how much do you really know about it?

[Riverwolf]

Let me say this: forcing our own political ideals onto other people is no different than trying to force our religion on to other people.

While if a tyrant is murdering and oppressing his own people, I do think it is the duty of others to do something about it, but not send in the army. We handled this so-called "war" terribly, because it's not (at least in the case of America) "soldiers" fighting "soldiers"; it's the poor fighting the poor.

They call this the War on Terrorism; I think that, through and through, it is World War III (who says WWIII has to be a nuclear war?) and a war between terrorists; not the ones actually pulling the triggars, but the ones who tell them to pull the triggars.

Democracy doesn't work with everybody. I don't see non-democratic countries as 'backwater' at all. Dictatorship is no worse than democracy, and is subject to the same problems. I think the past 8 years in America is a perfect example of this. The right person on the Big Chair could lead his or her people to a golden age, while the wrong person on the same Chair could lead them to destruction. As such, in a democratic government, the wrong persons in the Big Chairs (plural this time) is not much different than the wrong person in the one Big Chair.

 

[challupa]

in islam you fight when some one come to fight you
so when no one come to fight you you won't fight with any one
also i mentioned before that you can't kill women children ,unarmed men
if they ask peace you should gave it to them
in islam it is arule if some one killed civilians and it doesn't matter what is their religion is
he must take death plenty
no thing is islam tell you to go and kill people like what happen now adays

That may be what the quran says, but that's not what is being done. There were women, children and unarmed men in the World Trade Centres. So you see, once again someone has interpreted their religion in their own way for their own agendas. Now in all fairness, the secular world could have done the same thing, because it is made up of people also.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I "know" very little about the faith of Islam.

I have discussed Islam with a number of devout Muslims and have read a little about it.

What I have learned convinces me that it it is not a faith I could follow.
I am Convinced that The Koran is not the true word of God and I doubt that Mohamed was the last prophet.

This does not mean that I reject the honesty or word of Devout Muslims. It is simply that I do not share their faith.

As a Christian I believe in Jesus and his teachings, as they have come down to us, and do my best to follow him.

Christians and Moslems share many ethical concepts, but it is where they differ that creates the many problems the two faiths face today.

 

[challupa]

Let me say this: forcing our own political ideals onto other people is no different than trying to force our religion on to other people.

While if a tyrant is murdering and oppressing his own people, I do think it is the duty of others to do something about it, but not send in the army. We handled this so-called "war" terribly, because it's not (at least in the case of America) "soldiers" fighting "soldiers"; it's the poor fighting the poor.

They call this the War on Terrorism; I think that, through and through, it is World War III (who says WWIII has to be a nuclear war?) and a war between terrorists; not the ones actually pulling the triggars, but the ones who tell them to pull the triggars.

Democracy doesn't work with everybody. I don't see non-democratic countries as 'backwater' at all. Dictatorship is no worse than democracy, and is subject to the same problems. I think the past 8 years in America is a perfect example of this. The right person on the Big Chair could lead his or her people to a golden age, while the wrong person on the same Chair could lead them to destruction. As such, in a democratic government, the wrong persons in the Big Chairs (plural this time) is not much different than the wrong person in the one Big Chair.

Yes it definitely could all be different with the right person in either case. However, it isn't usually people who are peace loving that want the job or the power that goes with the job of ruling a country. That is usually coveted by those who are less likely to lead well. I'm not saying it never happens, and we are long overdue for that someone, but it is rare. I am watching with hope to see how Obama turns out.

 

[pharon85]

Hmm... I must say you have a point there. I have heard that before, that Islam is more upset by the west's alliance with horrendous dictators that kill their own people than with the west for their ways. If the west would cease to support these dictators, would Islam terrorists cease their activities?

this terrorists are murders so the question is how to stop amurder?
and who made the murder and trained him and gave him gun
so if the west cease to support dictators that do not mean west ended his responsibilty
if the west do that that will mean their will be no more young terrorists
and face just the old ones

 

[pharon85]

That may be what the quran says, but that's not what is being done. There were women, children and unarmed men in the World Trade Centres. So you see, once again someone has interpreted their religion in their own way for their own agendas. Now in all fairness, the secular world could have done the same thing, because it is made up of people also.

so it is political not about religion
the question is who made that politic ?

 

[pharon85]

I "know" very little about the faith of Islam.

I have discussed Islam with a number of devout Muslims and have read a little about it.

What I have learned convinces me that it it is not a faith I could follow.
I am Convinced that The Koran is not the true word of God and I doubt that Mohamed was the last prophet.

This does not mean that I reject the honesty or word of Devout Muslims. It is simply that I do not share their faith.

As a Christian I believe in Jesus and his teachings, as they have come down to us, and do my best to follow him.

Christians and Moslems share many ethical concepts, but it is where they differ that creates the many problems the two faiths face today.

is there is any mention for mohamed in the bible
for sure you will say no
let's check this
Deuteronomy, chapter 18, verse 18
("I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren,
like unto thee,
and I will put my words in his mouth;
and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him)
To whom does this prophecy refer??????
I think you will say jesus
why jesues is jesues like Moses??????
no
Reasons are
1-according to you JESUS is A GOD but Moses is not God
2-according to you JESUS died for the sins of the world, but Moses did not have to die for the sins of the world
3-according to you JESUS went to hell for three days, but Moses did not have to go there.
Now is Moses like Mohamed ???
yes Reasons are
1-Moses had a father and a mother. Mohamed also had a father and a mother. But Jesus had only a mother, and no human father
2-Moses and Mohamed were born in the normal, natural course, i.e. the physical association of man and woman; but Jesus was created by a special miracle
3-Moses and Mohamed married and had children, but Jesus remained a bachelor all his life
4-Moses and Muhummed were accepted as prophets by their people in their very lifetime. No doubt the Jews gave endless trouble to Moses and they murmured in the wilderness, but as a nation, they acknowledged that Moses was a Messenger of God sent to them. The Arabs too made Mohamed's life impossible. He suffered very badly at their hands. After 13 years of preaching in Mecca, he had to emigrate from the city of his birth. But before his demise, the Arab nation as a whole accepted him as the Messenger of Allah. But according to the Bible: 'He (Jesus) CAME UNTO HIS OWN, BUT HIS OWN RECEIVED HIM NOT.' (John 1:11). And even today, ofter two thousand years, his people- the Jews, as a whole, have rejeted him
4-Moses and Mohamed were prophets as well as kings. A prophet means a man who receives Divine Revelation for the Guidance of Man and this Guidance he conveys to God's creatures as received without any addition or deletion. A king is a person who has the power of life and death over his people. It is immaterial whether the person wears a crown or not, or whether he was ever addressed as king or monarch: if the man has the prerogative of inflicting capital punishment - HE IS A KING. Moses possessed such a power. Do you remember the Israelite who was found picking up firewood on Sabbath Day , and Moses had him stoned to death? (Numbers- 15:13). There are other crimes also mentioned in the Bible for which capital punishment was inflicted on the Jews at the behest of Moses. Mohamed too, had the power of life and death over his people. There are instances in the Bible of persons who were given gift of prophecy only, but they were not in a position to implement their directives. Some of these holy men of God who were helpless in the face of stubborn rejection of their message, were the prophets lot, Jonah, Daniel, Ezra, and John the Baptist. They could only deliver the message, but could not enforce the Law. The Holy Prophet Jesus (Peace b.u.h) also belonged to this category. The Christian Gospel clearly confirms this: when Jesus was dragged before the Roman Governor, Pontius Pilate, Charged for sedition, Jesus made a convincing point in his defence to refute the false charg e: JESUS ANSWERED, "MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD': IF MY KINGDOM WERE OF THIS WORLD, THEN WOULD MY SERVANTS FIGHT, THAT I SHOULD NOT BE DELIVERED TO THE JEWS; BUT NOW IS MY KINGDOM NOT FROM HENCE"(John 18:36) This convinced Pilate (A Pagan) that though Jesus might not be in full possession of his mental faculty, he did not strike him as being a danger to his rule. Jesus claimed a spiritual Kingdom only in other words he only claimed to be a Prophet
5-Both Moses and Mohamed died natural deaths, but according to Christianity, Jesus was violently killed on the cross
6-Moses and Mohamed both lie buried in earth, but according to you, Jesus in heaven
7-If Ishmael and Isaac are the sons of the same father Abraham, then they are brothers. And so the children of the one are the BRETHREN of the children of the other. The children of Isaac are the Jews and the Children of Ishmael are the Arabs so they are BRETHREN to one another. The Bible affirms,AND HE (ISHMAEL) SHALL DWELL IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.' (Genesis 16:12). 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) DIED IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.(Genesis 25:1

. The children of Isaac are the brethren of the Ishmaelites. In like manner Mohamed is from among the brethren of the Israelites because he was a descendant of Ishamel the son of Abraham. This exactly as the prophecy has it- 'FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN'.(Deut.18:1

. There the prophecy distinctly mentions that the coming prophet who would be like Moses, must arise NOT from the 'children of Israel' or from 'among themselves', but from among their brethren. THEREFORE Mohamed WAS FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN!
8-If I were to teach you a language like Arabic about which you have no knowledge, and if I asked you to read Arabic
What you are going to do you will repeat after me what i say
so that is (AND I WILL PUT MY WORDS INTO HIS MOUTH)

so What do you think?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

so What do you think?

We have a saying that you can interpret the Bible to prove Anything.

You have shown quite clearly that you believe that to.

Do I believe any of your interpretations?

No ...They have no substance in Christian tradition and teaching.

 

[challupa]

this terrorists are murders so the question is how to stop amurder?
and who made the murder and trained him and gave him gun
so if the west cease to support dictators that do not mean west ended his responsibilty
if the west do that that will mean their will be no more young terrorists
and face just the old ones

Maybe, but it has been my experience that the old brainwash the young with their prejudices and bias' and that is why this endless killing keeps happening. Children are programmed from the time it is possible to hate the other side. This has to end if we want to see the killing end. Neither side is doing this very effectively in my opinion. When we have child warriors, we can understand how this hatred keeps breeding more prejudice. What do you think is the answer?

 

[pharon85]

We have a saying that you can interpret the Bible to prove Anything.

You have shown quite clearly that you believe that to.

Do I believe any of your interpretations?

No ...They have no substance in Christian tradition and teaching.

oh sorry but i don't have the honor of discovering that things in the bible
it for some one the church couldn't face him
even alot of people argue with him converted to islam
his name is ahmed dedat
i hope you search for what he say
because men of church couldn't face him in any argument
and the question is (is jesues like moses )
i hope you can replay by yourself or try to explain for who was the prophecy refer ?

 

[pharon85]

Maybe, but it has been my experience that the old brainwash the young with their prejudices and bias' and that is why this endless killing keeps happening. Children are programmed from the time it is possible to hate the other side. This has to end if we want to see the killing end. Neither side is doing this very effectively in my opinion. When we have child warriors, we can understand how this hatred keeps breeding more prejudice. What do you think is the answer?

in egypt we have experiment
we face terrorists until they escape from egypt and the rest of them in jail
while they are in jail good people talk with them tried to show them the truth
people who really understand Islam told them about it
so they say we were wrong
and we they back to be a good moslems
ayman elzoahre the second man in alqada is going crazy because of that now
and all his tapes about that now
so you can take down big boys and speak with small ones this will make a good result

 

[challupa]

in egypt we have experiment
we face terrorists until they escape from egypt and the rest of them in jail
while they are in jail good people talk with them tryied to show them the truth
people who realy understand islam told them about it
so they say we were rong
and we they back to be agood moslems
ayman elzoahre the second man in alqada is going crzay because of that now
and all his tapes about that now
so you can take down big boys and speak with small ones this will make a good result

Maybe that would work for some of the "smaller" ones, but there are far too many to ever bring it down. That is why I don't agree with the "War on Terrorism". It is a war that can't be won and it will never end. It isn't like two countries going to war over a dispute or territory. This is a world wide effort with thousands of terrorists being trained and set loose all the time. Some day someone is going to have to figure that out! Also, the whole agenda on the part of the so called terrorists is to bring the whole world to Islam or kill them trying. That is in contradiction to what god initially taught. He gave us free will and now humans are trying to take that free will away. We all should be able to believe what we want to believe without having to be killed. It seems that all religions have got so far away from the fundamental values of love and forgiveness that they are getting to be nothing but dangerous to the survival of all humankind.

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

sure not i replied for that let's wait until they finish counting
and we will see how many planet will be there ?

Of course ... just as I expected.

This is what i dislike most about all those science and Quran debates: the dishonesty

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

oh sorry but i don't have the honor of discovering that things in the bible
it for some one the church couldn't face him
even alot of people argue with him converted to islam
his name is ahmed dedat
i hope you search for what he say
because men of church couldn't face him in any argument
and the question is (is jesues like moses )
i hope you can replay by yourself or try to explain for who was the prophecy refer ?

The arguments of ahmed dedat have been given on this site and many others before.
The fact that they have been oft repeated does not make them true...
I am of the opinion that his followers are misguided.

 

[pharon85]

The arguments of ahmed dedat have been given on this site and many others before.
The fact that they have been oft repeated does not make them true...
I am of the opinion that his followers are misguided.

you use words as dishonesty and misguided
and say what we say is wrong
can you explain what i say from the bible?
if i'am wrong tell me the right
and by the way until now what ahmed dedat say in this topic never been answered
they say we will check and back
that was 25 years ago
until today they didn't back
and i write here about the percentage of land and sea in quran
what do you think of that???
about planets issue
i'am sorry for using some thing not proved yet, my mistake
but i have alot of proven scientific things in quran
i can show that
i just want 2 things from you
explain what i say about bible,what do you think as achristian mean
and to tell me what do you think of the percentage of land and sea in quran

 

[pharon85]

[FONT=&quot]The origin of creation[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]: clay & water ![/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]​

In the Quran, Allah reveals that the creation of man is a miracle. The first human being was created by Allah shaping clay into a human form and then breathing a soul into it, Allah (SWT) says in Quran : ( Your Lord said to the angels, "I am going to create a human being out of clay. When I have formed him and breathed My Spirit into him, fall down in prostration to him!") (Quran 38:71-72)​

( إذ قال ربك للملائكة إني خالق بشرا من طينٍ ، فإذا سويته ونفخت فيه من روحي فقعوا له ساجدين ) سورة (&#1589 71-72​

and also says : " Then inquire of them: Is it they who are stronger in structure or other things We have created? We created them from sticky clay "(Quran 37:11)​

( فاستفتهم أهم أشد خلقاً أم من خلقنا إنا خلقناهم من طين لاز&#1576 الصافات 11​

When the human body is examined today, many elements present on the earth are also discovered to be found in the human body. Living tissues contain 95% carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, phosphorus and sulphur, with a total of 26 different elements.91 In another verse of the Quran we are told:
"We created man from an extract of clay" (Quran 23:12)​

(ولقد خلقنا الإنسان من سلالة من طين ) المؤمنون 12​

The Arabic word "sulala," translated as "extract" in the verse, means "representative example, essence." As we have seen, the information revealed in the Quran 1,400 years ago confirms what modern science tells us-the fact that the same elements as those found in the soil are employed in the human creation .​

Below is a diagram showing the distribution of the elements in a 70-kilo human being.​

Element​

Symbol​

%​

Weight​

Macro-minerals​

​

​

Gram​

Oxygen​

Carbon
Hydrogen
Nitrogen
Calcium
Phosphorus
Potassium
Sulfur
Chlorine
Sodium
Magnesium
Silicon ​

O​

C
H
N
Ca
P
K
S
Cl
Na
Mg
Si ​

65.0
18.5
9.5
3.3
1.5
1.0
0.35
0.25
0.15
0.15
0.05
0.05​

43,000
12,000
6,300
2,000
1,100
750
225
150
100
90
35
30

Macro-minerals​

​

%​

Miligram​

Iron
Zinc​

Copper
Boron
Cobalt
Vanadium
Iodine
Selenium
Manganese
Molybdenum
Chromium ​

Fe
Zn​

Cu
B
Co
V
I
Se
Mn
Mo
Cr ​

0.01
0.01​

0.01
0.01
0.01
0.01
0.01
0.01
0.01
0.01
0.01​

4,200
2,400
90
68
20
20
15
15
13
8
6
​

As we notice above water forms the main component of the human being and any other being . Allah (SWT) says :
" Allah created every [living] creature from water. Some of them go on their bellies, some of them on two legs, and some on four. Allah creates whatever He wills. Allah has power over all things" (Quran, 24:45)​

( والله خلق كل دابة من ماء فمنهم من يمشي على بطنه ومنهم من يمشي على رجلين ومنهم من يمشي على أربع يخلق الله ما يشاء إن الله على كل شيء قدي&#1585 النور 45​

" and We made from water every living thing? So will they not believe?" (Quran, 21:30) ​

(وجعلنا من الماء كل شيء حي أفلا يؤمنون &#1614 الأنبياء 30​

"And it is He Who created human beings from water and then gave them relations by blood and marriage. Your Lord is All-Powerful" (25:54)​

(وهو الذي خلق من الماء بشراً فجعله نسباً وصهراً وكان ربك قديراً ) الفرقان 54​

When we look at the verses concerned with the creation of human beings and living things, we clearly see evidence of a miracle. One such miracle is of the creation of living things from water. It was only possible for people to come across that information, clearly expressed in those verses, hundreds of years afterwards with the invention of the microscope.
​

All life forms need water in order to survive. Animals in dry regions, therefore, have been created with mechanisms to protect their metabolisms from water loss and to ensure maximum benefit from water use. If water loss takes place in the body for any reason, and if that loss is not replaced, death will result in a few days. The famous 17th century scientist Jan Baptista van Helmont discovered in 1640s that water in the soil was the most important element of plant development.​

​

 

[pharon85]

[FONT=&quot]i wanted to draw the table but it cant be doen here , sorry
[/FONT]​

​

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

you use words as dishonesty and misguided
and say what we say is wrong
can you explain what i say from the bible?
if i'am wrong tell me the right
and by the way until now what ahmed dedat say in this topic never been answered
they say we will check and back
that was 25 years ago
until today they didn't back
and i write here about the percentage of land and sea in quran
what do you think of that???
about planets issue
i'am sorry for using some thing not proved yet, my mistake
but i have alot of proven scientific things in quran
i can show that
i just want 2 things from you
explain what i say about bible,what do you think as achristian mean
and to tell me what do you think of the percentage of land and sea in quran

As I have said the interpretations of ahmed deedat have been disused many times.
Neither Christians nor Moslems ever agree on these selections and interpretations.
I do not propose to go through them again.
If you are that interested, do a web search and read them for yourself.

 

[darkendless]

Why does religion constantly seek to prove itself using "convenient science" as if to appeal to the scientific community. The Quran is not a science text book, you can make it say whatever you want. Ive seen claims of the Quran predicting Nuclear war, all of which could have meant pretty much anything i could think of.

There is no evidence of creation and miracles are shakey at best. All we have are blind sheep to testify, all of which probably had to stretch the truth to even convince the converted.

 

[pharon85]

As I have said the interpretations of ahmed deedat have been disused many times.
Neither Christians nor Moslems ever agree on these selections and interpretations.
I do not propose to go through them again.
If you are that interested, do a web search and read them for yourself.

you answerd one question
and no replay
what about the other
every time you say it a lie ,dishonest,misgudied
and no thing else
and by the way i searched for achristian answer and i didn't find
so plz answer my question or proof i'am wrong don't just say it is wrong and leave