Islam, how much do you really know about it?

[Alla Prima]

Islam (Obedience to God) is the only true religion but Muslims have a way of equating that with the Qu'ran and in some cases the Ha'dith. As a Christian Islam means something entirely different since our book is the Bible. For a Sikh Islam is found in the Granth.

I thought the first martyr made a perfectly acceptable Islamic statement of faith.

Not only that but it appears the murderers were acting contrary to the Qu'ran and in opposition to the will of Allah.

This disqualifies it from being an 'only true religion'. Any religion that would make such a claim is an ignorant and dead religion.

 

[.lava]

If we all share the destination what use is religion,a faithless good Man or Woman is equal to any good Muslim for example,so there is no need for religion.

i do not know what makes you ask that. you don't believe in God, do you? i mean, if you believed in a creator and asked me the same, then that would have been reasonable for me to answer. am i being clear? i would still answer if you want me to, but my answer contains 'God'.

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[Matrix]

Joseph Smith and Laosi? etc?

Still going round in circles !

So, who do be believe, or may I say, How do we know who is speaking the Truth ???:yes:

 

[England my lionheart]

Still going round in circles !

So, who do be believe, or may I say, How do we know who is speaking the Truth ???:yes:

Its simple,nobody knows,as as you say it just goes round in circles,nobody can claim a one true religion as there is no proof and is all about faith.

 

[England my lionheart]

i do not know what makes you ask that. you don't believe in God, do you? i mean, if you believed in a creator and asked me the same, then that would have been reasonable for me to answer. am i being clear? i would still answer if you want me to, but my answer contains 'God'.

.

I know your answer will contain God,it is your faith,my point is if we are all going to the same destination it does'nt matter whether you follow a religion or not.
There are two certainties,you are born and hopefully you will be a "good person" and you die,ater that all is a mystery,i just cannot see the punishment or reward that Abrahmic religions talk of.

 

[Luminous]

Still going round in circles !

So, who do be believe, or may I say, How do we know who is speaking the Truth ???:yes:

i hold these two as high: Zoroaster was speaking his mind and Gautama was speaking the truth.

 

[.lava]

I know your answer will contain God,it is your faith,my point is if we are all going to the same destination it does'nt matter whether you follow a religion or not.
There are two certainties,you are born and hopefully you will be a "good person" and you die,ater that all is a mystery,i just cannot see the punishment or reward that Abrahmic religions talk of.

i see OK i would like to try to explain something.

according to our teachings, there are two kinds of servitude. you know Islam means submission. path of Islam requires personal intention to submit to God. that can never happen by forcing people, so, it is said 'let there be no compulsion in religion'. one has to use his free will and has to be volunteer to submit. on the other hand if one does not want to submit, he is still in position of servitude. it is because, however he denies creator, he is still using the body that's created by God. so even though he does not follow religion, his body would never abandon rules of God. you can not rule over your stomach for example. or you could not breath under water in physical reality, you can not command and make our nervous system not to feel pain...etc. this is called physical servitude that's applied on every living creature. yes, we all eventually die. what happens when we die? how many kinds of death are there? in Islam, God commands to submit four things. that would be Spirit, physical body, ego and -at last- free will. when one dies, his Spirit would be taken away (back to God), Azrael and his helpers would stop function of mitokondri so electricity of physical body would be shut down, ego would have to go some other dimension cos it is not physical creature, so gravity could not keep it here...and all of this would happen against one's free will. i believe it is fair to say one would be forced to submit, all at once. religion tells you to do it before death, by your will. of course being a good person is good God loves bad people too. if you're trying to be good person, you'd see there is always a 'better' all the time. that's how i see. i can not say 'oh OK i am perfect' nope, no matter how good i am, no doubt i can still be better person. i understand what you mean. i do not look for religion in people. there is only one thing i expect to find in human and that is humanity. in a social life, that's all i ask for from others. but when it is about individual alone, it is not enough. one could be satisfied with his llife but then death awaits.

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[Alla Prima]

i see OK i would like to try to explain something.

according to our teachings, there are two kinds of servitude. you know Islam means submission. path of Islam requires personal intention to submit to God. that can never happen by forcing people, so, it is said 'let there be no compulsion in religion'. one has to use his free will and has to be volunteer to submit. on the other hand if one does not want to submit, he is still in position of servitude. it is because, however he denies creator, he is still using the body that's created by God. so even though he does not follow religion, his body would never abandon rules of God. you can not rule over your stomach for example. or you could not breath under water in physical reality, you can not command and make our nervous system not to feel pain...etc. this is called physical servitude that's applied on every living creature. yes, we all eventually die. what happens when we die? how many kinds of death are there? in Islam, God commands to submit four things. that would be Spirit, physical body, ego and -at last- free will. when one dies, his Spirit would be taken away (back to God), Azrael and his helpers would stop function of mitokondri so electricity of physical body would be shut down, ego would have to go some other dimension cos it is not physical creature, so gravity could not keep it here...and all of this would happen against one's free will. i believe it is fair to say one would be forced to submit, all at once. religion tells you to do it before death, by your will. of course being a good person is good God loves bad people too. if you're trying to be good person, you'd see there is always a 'better' all the time. that's how i see. i can not say 'oh OK i am perfect' nope, no matter how good i am, no doubt i can still be better person. i understand what you mean. i do not look for religion in people. there is only one thing i expect to find in human and that is humanity. in a social life, that's all i ask for from others. but when it is about individual alone, it is not enough. one could be satisfied with his llife but then death awaits.

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We know that the 'no compulsion' claim by Muslims is bogus because of history but notice something else here. According to Islam there are 'two kinds of submission'. One applies to Muslims. So far so good. However the other applies to you and me. Islam is telling you what you are. Islam is refusing to recognize anything in anyone other than Islam's submission. You/we are submitting whether we like it or not and too Allah whether we believe in his existence or not. All non-Muslims are defined under the umbrella of Islam. Your/our spiritual sensibilities are denied and fundamentally so. This is the evil of Islam. Ideology before people. Ideology over people.

 

[.lava]

We know that the 'no compulsion' claim by Muslims is bogus because of history but notice something else here. According to Islam there are 'two kinds of submission'. One applies to Muslims. So far so good. However the other applies to you and me. Islam is telling you what you are. Islam is refusing to recognize anything in anyone other than Islam's submission. You/we are submitting whether we like it or not and too Allah whether we believe in his existence or not. All non-Muslims are defined under the umbrella of Islam. Your/our spiritual sensibilities are denied and fundamentally so. This is the evil of Islam. Ideology before people. Ideology over people.

yes, there should not be compulsion in religion because it is command of God. what you're saying is about after life, and could be said about time when your free will was taken away as it was given once. if this was used by people over some other people, yes, that IS evil and against Islam because they are equal but some acts like Gods over some people. that is ideology, that is fascism. who submits God accept people as they are, if not we can not talk about submission. forcing others is against nature and definition of submission.

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[Alla Prima]

I would invite all religions to mind their own business. Keep YOUR ideology to yourselves. Keep it away from 'non-believers', 'infidels' or anyone who rejects YOUR gods and YOUR idea of how to live life. As a matter of fact don't even refer to us as 'non-believers' or 'infidels'. We're neither. We're Atheists, Agnostics, Hindus, Buddhists, Wiccans, Secularists, Musicians, Accountants, Artists, Policemen, Doctors and Nurses. We believe in what we believe and it's none of your business what we believe in. If you talk about Allah talk to Muslims not we who reject your silly notion of a god. Tell YOUR faithful what to believe and how to behave. Tell YOUR faithful about YOUR teachings. Stop wasting your breath on we who DON't buy into YOUR teachings. We don't appreciate you telling us what we're doing. We don't appreciate you telling us what to believe. We don't appreciate you telling us how to live our lives. We don't need or want YOUR religion.

Discussing religion is fine but when Islam (or any religion) defines those who are not part of Islam in terms of Islam then that religion has crossed the line.

 

[Alla Prima]

yes, there should not be compulsion in religion because it is command of God. what you're saying is about after life, and could be said about time when your free will was taken away as it was given once. if this was used by people over some other people, yes, that IS evil and against Islam because they are equal but some acts like Gods over some people. that is ideology, that is fascism. who submits God accept people as they are, if not we can not talk about submission. forcing others is against nature and definition of submission.

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Forcing one to be subdued IS compulsion to religion. Muslims cannot see this but freedom loving people can.

Islam tells non-Muslims they are non-believers. Non-believers in what might you ask? Non-believers in ALLAH. This is the myopic and oppressive vision of Islam.

 

[msmcneal]

When I left Christianity, I decided to study other religions from their own point of view instead of what Christians think about them. One of the main religions I study alot is Islam, so I actually have quite a bit of knowledge about Islam, moreso than most non-Muslims. I do have a question, though, about Qadar. Is that the same as fate? Is it causal determinism? I never quite understood the concept.

 

[.lava]

When I left Christianity, I decided to study other religions from their own point of view instead of what Christians think about them. One of the main religions I study alot is Islam, so I actually have quite a bit of knowledge about Islam, moreso than most non-Muslims. I do have a question, though, about Qadar. Is that the same as fate? Is it causal determinism? I never quite understood the concept.

hi

Qadar means destiny. we study two concepts that explains individuals life. there are two concepts. one of them is Qadar that would be everything that does not depend on you, the other one is called Kaza that would be everything that one does by using free will. if you have time you can read explanation i wrote some time ago. here it is;

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/comparative-religion/64919-destiny-act.html

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[Luminous]

So Qadar is your destiny and Kaza is your fate?

 

[.lava]

So Qadar is your destiny and Kaza is your fate?

what's the difference between fate and destiny?

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[msmcneal]

No, I think I get it. Qadar is what happens to you, outside circumstances, things that are beyond our control. Kaza is how we act and react to those things that happen to us. We don't choose what happens to us, but we can choose how we react to what happens to us.

 

[.lava]

No, I think I get it. Qadar is what happens to you, outside circumstances, things that are beyond our control. Kaza is how we act and react to those things that happen to us. We don't choose what happens to us, but we can choose how we react to what happens to us.

that's correct if you're reading this right now, what you're reading is your destiny and what i red in your post was mine. but you could have chosed not to read and that would be your act. Qadar and kaza are like amazing web.

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[msmcneal]

So it's sort of like fate and free will working together?

 

[.lava]

So it's sort of like fate and free will working together?

imo they coincide. every decision you make depends on you, but what they would bring is not very predictable.

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[Luminous]

what's the difference between fate and destiny?

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well, destiny is what is going to happen no matter what and fate is something you cause to happen yourself that didn't have to happen.
fate happens because of the past
destiny happens because of the future.
personally, i don't think destiny exists.