Islam, how much do you really know about it?

[.lava]

Islam is neither divine nor sacred to me and I will not treat it as such. Islam doesn't get to tell me what I can say about it. That is our freedom of not only speech but ideas.

would you ever stop this monolog?

.

 

[Alla Prima]

suit Islam? Islam is written in a book. you can not disturb it or damage it or suit it. this is a social problem. you want dialog? then as you hear yourself try to hear me too.

Ok so now Islam and Muslims are different?

movie was made. it exists. i am not telling you to destroy copies.
i am not offended but i can see people would be and i relate with their feelings because everyday i perform exactly the same salaat she does in movie. i say the same prayers which is taken from Qur'an, the book i know as word of God. that prayer is divine to Muslims. it might not be divine to you. this is an issue between you and God.

This has been addressed earlier and I simply don't believe in God so it isn't an issue.

he did not know Islamic values. he only knew wrong-doings among Muslims.

How would you know? You haven't watched the movie.

Islam is not a person.

The teachings of Islam mistreat women as do Muslims.

did i? dear, friend, do what you want. your free will, your path, your intellect. i have my own.

Yes you did.

i would have sit down and listened to you if there were no thousands of rapes, mistreatments and women hatred in Western nations. men were given more physical power and all over the globe many men are abusive.

This is what's called a Red Herring.

A red herring is an argument, given in reply, that does not address the original issue. Critically, a red herring is a deliberate attempt to change the subject or divert the argument. This is known formally in the English vocabulary as a digression which is usually denoted as "red herring".

no, you're not right about me.

Yes I was. You didn't watch the movie therefore you don't understand the movie.

i never said that i understood the movie. you should have red my earlier posts then.

You stated that it wasn't art. In order to make such a statement you would need to understand the movie. In order to understand the movie you would need to watch it. You didn't watch the movie.

this is what you did not know. in fact, you still do not know.

I know you make statements about things you don't understand.

it is not my own religion. i am a living human being. i try to understand everything i perceive.

Islam is mentioned next to your avatar. I thought that indicated what religion you held to.

do not think about me, i might be addictive.

You just might be but I use advanced Jedi trick to stop addiction.

 

[Alla Prima]

would you ever stop this monolog?

.

But you're such a good listener. :angel2:

 

[.lava]

Ok so now Islam and Muslims are different?

yes. obviously.

This has been addressed earlier and I simply don't believe in God so it isn't an issue.

OK.

How would you know? You haven't watched the movie.

easy. if he knew Islam, then he would have made his point without insulting Qur'an and prayers. like many others he saw wrong doings and he thought that source of those actions was Islam itself.

The teachings of Islam mistreat women as do Muslims.

you keep saying teachings of Islam but you do not talk about them.

Yes you did.

no i did not. i can't recall any sentence of mine that starts with 'I suggest'. i am telling what i think. whatever is happening in this world is going to continue.

This is what's called a Red Herring.

A red herring is an argument, given in reply, that does not address the original issue. Critically, a red herring is a deliberate attempt to change the subject or divert the argument. This is known formally in the English vocabulary as a digression which is usually denoted as "red herring".

attempt to change subject? no, my subject is Islam and it will be my subject. let me ask you this way; isn't it illogical to blame Islam for every wrong you see in Islamic nations while Western nations have same problems?

Yes I was. You didn't watch the movie therefore you don't understand the movie.

no you were not. you thought i watched the movie.

You stated that it wasn't art. In order to make such a statement you would need to understand the movie. In order to understand the movie you would need to watch it. You didn't watch the movie.

it is not art to tease people. it is not art to insult people. it is not art to make people hate each other. i am not speaking about the movie. i am talking about how he used something that all Muslims respect from bottom of their hearts just to insult and to look down on religion.

I know you make statements about things you don't understand.

such as ....?

Islam is mentioned next to your avatar. I thought that indicated what religion you held to.

i am Muslim but Islam is not my own religion cos i did not create it.

You just might be but I use advanced Jedi trick to stop addiction.

what? claiming to be a fish?

.

 

[Alla Prima]

easy. if he knew Islam, then he would have made his point without insulting Qur'an and prayers. like many others he saw wrong doings and he thought that source of those actions was Islam itself.

And again how would you know if you haven't seen the movie. This movie was not made in an Islamic country but a free society. Therefore your line of reasoning is irrelevant. It simply does not apply.

attempt to change subject? no, my subject is Islam and it will be my subject. let me ask you this way; isn't it illogical to blame Islam for every wrong you see in Islamic nations while Western nations have same problems?

So you would listen to me if there were no "thousands of rapes, mistreatments and women hatred in Western nations". Why do you need that to attend to the misdeeds of Islam?

it is not art to tease people. it is not art to insult people. it is not art to make people hate each other. i am not speaking about the movie. i am talking about how he used something that all Muslims respect from bottom of their hearts just to insult and to look down on religion.

Had you watched and understood the movie you would know that no insult was intended. But you chose to ignore the content and intent of the movie's creator in favor of this bigoted interpretation you now hold.

 

[.lava]

And again how would you know if you haven't seen the movie. This movie was not made in an Islamic country but a free society. Therefore your line of reasoning is irrelevant. It simply does not apply.

because in first minutes of it, it clearly shows how much he knows and how much he cares for values.

So you would listen to me if there were no "thousands of rapes, mistreatments and women hatred in Western nations". Why do you need that to attend to the misdeeds of Islam?

because they are not misdeeds of Islam. if they were misdeeds of Islam then how would you explain same crimes being commited in Western nations?

Had you watched and understood the movie you would know that no insult was intended. But you chose to ignore the content and intent of the movie's creator in favor of this bigoted interpretation you now hold.

i am trying to be understood. it is not about movie itself. i am not talking about movie itself.

how would you know if you haven't seen the movie.

FACT:
99% of Muslims would say that showing (so-called) Muslim woman performing salaat nude is an insult to our values. (go ask)

OPTIONS:
1-movie maker did not know that would be an insult to Muslims
2-movie maker knew that would be an insult to Muslims.

RESULT:
you say that movie maker's intention was good. that means he did not know that would be an insult to Muslims.
i also believe he did not see that coming...or did he think his art would worth dying for? God knows, not me.

i am bigot? well, you wish. if bigots of this world was like me, you'd be living in heaven on Earth.

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[Alla Prima]

i am trying to be understood. it is not about movie itself. i am not talking about movie itself.

It's all been about the movie for me. This is the subject I began debating you about. Now that I know you haven't seen it there's no point in discussing it further until you do.

 

[Kade]

well this topic is very interesting, and i would like to share with you "How much do i really know about islam", but i would like to talk about the god of islam and god of all ALLAH.
IS THERE A GOD?
Basically, there's no doubt in my mind what so every regarding the existance of a creator.
why?
There's a beginning and end for everything basically, well we know that this universe had its beginning (Bing Bang theory), this is the most common theory anyway. And scientist could calculate and end.
So bigbang you say, IF THIS WORLD WAS NOT MADE BY A CREATOR(or a higher being if you will)!!
the point where it all started this point of infinite materials or what ever all inside this almost 0 volume according to the big band theory. WHO PUT IT THERE? how did it come to exist?
ok say god doesn't bring down rain, you can bring the scientific explanation for it, and i would perfectly agree. But logically there is a chain of incidents that led to the rain, i simply ask you to trace it back , you will end up in the molecules and the electrons etc.... but then .. BLANK
there's a broken link somewhere in everything you try to explain in this world.
you ask yourself : WHO PUT IT THERE, who cause or what caused this specific molecule to move in the first place. i would say GOD.
ALLAH IN ISLAM:
so how do i know that allah is this god?
well because the description of islam to god best fit a god.
He created everything thus, he was there before anything existed!!
so you ask me, what was god doing before he created anything.
i then answe, what is time, isn't time related to matter? if i have nothing to measure time upon like moving a car 10meters, then how can i measure time.. i can't . example: it takes 24 hrs (for the earth to circle the sun) etc...
so time is directly related to matter.
my point is if god created all matter, what is time with respect to him?
TIme is irrelevant for allah, i said this just to answer some sceptics.
so what does allah look like? hands head legs?
i say no he looks like nothing of what you have seen, its so difficult for anyone to comprehend it becuase our imagination only compiles and reassembles stuff in different pattern, so you can't imaggine something you have never seen the like of.
example:
there a poor guy that has been blind all of his life.
at the age of 30 medicine finds away to treat him and he will be able to see.
so he undergoes a surgery, and wakes up afterwards in a blue room (keep in mind that this guy has never had the bless of sight in his life, ever)
he looks at this "color" in amazement and suddenly, he goes back blind again.
now tell me, if this guy asks you now that he has seen "blue" if he asks you to describe the color brown so that he could imagine it, will he able to? the answer is no because its impossible for him.

 

[.lava]

It's all been about the movie for me. This is the subject I began debating you about. Now that I know you haven't seen it there's no point in discussing it further until you do.

unavoidable end of a monolog

.

 

[Alla Prima]

unavoidable end of a monolog

.

If you had the courage to actually view the movie and learn what the artist intended instead of making mindless bigoted comments about it then we might have had a real discussion. But I find Muslims for the most part don't take well to criticisms of Islam. All they want is to promote their religion and tell everyone how lovely it is.

 

[Kade]

But I find Muslims for the most part don't take well to criticisms of Islam

on the contrary my friend, debates, criticism, and discussion are a must wrt us.

 

[pharon85]

OK let me put it this way,Hamas(Islamic resistance movement)not my words,Hezbollah (Army of God) there are more but i won't bore you with them all.
Now i'll get to the point,when these Muslims are pointed out we are told they are not Muslims because they do not follow the Quran properly and are guided by false Hadiths.
I have spoken to one of these hate filled individuals and they say that Muslims such you who i am sure follows the Quran correctly are not Muslims,now here's the problem for me,if Islam is the only true religion why are there so many different interpretations of it,i could maybe understand someone like me who does'nt read Arabic but come now many of those do.
If i truly thought the Quran(Koran) was the word of God i would adhere to it but it is just another Abrahmic religion.

here you mix between hamas ,hezb allah and elqadea
all of them are different
first the rule in islam is not to kill civilians
that is what elqada break all the time that is why we belive that is not an islamic act
hamas and hezab allah face the same enemy which is israel
here you can say they target the civlians too
the problem here with isreal law that say every one over 16 is solider
and have military training
so if israel cancled that law you will see that they will never target civlians
beside that topic is so deep because both hamas and hezb allah figth for land occupied by israel
i will give another example if some isrealians come and take palestnian land by force and bulid a colony
also there are a conflict in the definiation of colony because it is good thing in english because it mean bulding and life
but here they take it by force
and that palestenias were very civlized and to to isreal courts which judge that it is their land and like in any other place in the world you cant take some one land by force and he must take his land back
cool
this man will take th order of the court and will go to isrealian police to get his land back
the police will tell him sorry we have alaw that prevent us from forcing soliders from partticipatin at evacuation of colnyies
if that man go and bomb the colony is he aterrorist
for sure all the world will say yes he is
and you will say yes his quran order him to kill civlians
also our prophet mohamed say my nation will be divided into 70 teams 69 on hill
and one in heaven that will stick with true islam
you are british so for example if you have friend killed in iraq for sure you will say terrorists there killed him
why don't you think that some one was fighting for his countery killled him
you didn't have permission to attack iraq from UN in the first place
i know you will never think of that
for me as amoslem you thinki'am agood one if you come to invade my countery i had to kill you or die while i'am trying
but for sure in your countery they will say i'am aterrorist
that is what hamas and hezb allah issue look like
if you try to search in history you will find that the first big actionfrom hezb allah into USA was in 1982 when they killed 200 american soliders in beyrut
at that time isreal attacked lebnan and occupied beyrut the capital
and USA where there for help
if that happen to you what would you do
they attack and from that time USA put them in the list of terrorism
i hope you can see what i'am talken about
also there arule in islam
( who attack you attack him the same way he attacked you, and obay allah orders allah like who obay him) 2:194
it is obvious here to fight who fight in same way
but the second order is to obay god orders which is not to attack civlians
so people like in elqadea use the first words
they say USA ,UK killed more than amillion civlian in iraq
so we will kill civilians too
so they attack london
and didn't think of the rest of quran because they just want to kill
here as you can see the problem not with quran the problem with them
that is why we still belive that quran is god words
the problem not with it ,it is with people minds and desires

 

[Caladan]

the problem here with isreal law that say every one over 16 is solider
and have military training
so if israel cancled that law you will see that they will never target civlians

Wrong on both accounts, Israeli men and women join the army at the age of 18, not 16, further more this doesnt explain why Hezballah and Hamas target civilians, are the rockets launched at Israeli towns and cities guided by the will of Allah? these rockets are pointed at civilian population exclusively. the irony is that during the Lebanon war of 2006, Hezballah targeted Arab and Jewish civilians of Israel indiscriminately.
does a suicide bomber which explodes himself on a public bus, or a night club targets Israeli men and women who are members of the IDF?
just a quick question.. how old are you? how about respecting the intelligence of the forum members?

 

[Breathe]

on the contrary my friend, debates, criticism, and discussion are a must wrt us.

I wish more Muslims were as open to criticism as you.
So, so many Muslims, unfortunately, cannot stand any. This only further alienates people, so bravo for your open mind!

 

[.lava]

If you had the courage to actually view the movie and learn what the artist intended instead of making mindless bigoted comments about it then we might have had a real discussion. But I find Muslims for the most part don't take well to criticisms of Islam. All they want is to promote their religion and tell everyone how lovely it is.

i am here to answer about Islam. you think i must watch a movie to do that, well wake up, Islam is written in Qur'an, that is the only source without evil influence. wanna ask, wanna make claims...here you go...wanna discuss movie then find someone who wants to watch movie. i don't and i am not planning to.

thank you.

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[pharon85]

Wrong on both accounts, Israeli men and women join the army at the age of 18, not 16, further more this doesnt explain why Hezballah and Hamas target civilians, are the rockets launched at Israeli towns and cities guided by the will of Allah? these rockets are pointed at civilian population exclusively. the irony is that during the Lebanon war of 2006, Hezballah targeted Arab and Jewish civilians of Israel indiscriminately.
does a suicide bomber which explodes himself on a public bus, or a night club targets Israeli men and women who are members of the IDF?
just a quick question.. how old are you? how about respecting the intelligence of the forum members?

i didn't say they join the army at 16 i say they start training at 16
even less ages in coloneys
and if the people in colony are civilians why they have guns,why they train their children to use it ?
you speak about targeting civilians
so can you tell me if isreal is so gentel and just fight hamas and hezb allah
why it target civilians
in lebnan war 2006 it targted all of it even places where christians live
if i lie on the part you quoted what about the rest
can you answer???????
and i didn't disrespect any one
and i don't think any memebr here gave you the right to speak for him
be cool man,why are you so nervous
the truth could be pain but it still atruth

 

[Breathe]

Islam is written in Qur'an, that is the only source without evil influence. wanna ask, wanna make claims...here you go...

I gotta ask, hun - what do you mean by "without evil influence"?

 

[Caladan]

i didn't say they join the army at 16 i say they start training at 16
even less ages in coloneys
you speak about targeting civilians
so can you tell me if isreal is so gentel and just fight hamas and hezb allah
why it target civilians
and i didn't disrespect any one
and i don't think any memebr here gave you the right to speak for him

Nonsense, the general youth in Israel starts training upon entry into the armed forces at the age of 18.
Israel targets are militant targets, purposely targeting civilians is in the bad interest of Israel on too many levels to number, one reason is because it puts pressure to end the offensive before the goals are achieved.
and you most certainly disrespect the members of this forum with this juvenile nonsense, if you cant put up a mature logical or even coherent answer you must expect rebuttal.

 

[.lava]

I gotta ask, hun - what do you mean by "without evil influence"?

hi Odion, i was refering to commentaries and some hadiths that added hadith books. evil influence means personal adds which rooted in one's ego [like a guy who hates women make a commentary and put rights of women into men's hand.] you know this is how God centered religion now lived as male centered ideology. so it means anything 'personal'.

.

 

[Breathe]

hi Odion, i was refering to commentaries and some hadiths that added hadith books. evil influence means personal adds which rooted in one's ego [like a guy who hates women make a commentary and put rights of women into men's hand.] you know this is how God centered religion now lived as male centered ideology. so it means anything 'personal'.

.

Ahh, okay. I understand what you mean now.

Would you say that most Muslims are not practising Islam, then?