Islam, how much do you really know about it?

[.lava]

You mean you're done. I'm not.

no, i mean we are done. you lost me. i would only defend Islam and would not waste my time trying to explain you language, verses, relations and concepts of Qur'an.

.

 

[Alla Prima]

if Islam was equal fascism in your mind, i feel sorry for you and anyone who believes you

I never said it equaled Fascism. I said what the terrorists are doing IS Islam. And I don't need your pity. I'm good.

no, i mean we are done. you lost me. i would only defend Islam and would not waste my time trying to explain you language, verses, relations and concepts of Qur'an.

.

I know.

 

[Gharib]

Neanderthal,how can these people be explained in religion,i suppose its convenient there are'nt any left but never the less they were here.

do you have any proof of this?

or is it a blind beleif on what scientists say and on their made up figurines

 

[Alla Prima]

do you have any proof of this?

or is it a blind beleif on what scientists say and on their made up figurines

There's a skeleton you can view as well.

The Neanderthal (IPA: /ne??ænd?rt??l/, also with /ni?-/ and /-???l/), or Neandertal, is an extinct member of the Homo genus that is known from Pleistocene specimens found in Europe and parts of western and central Asia. Neanderthals are either classified as a subspecies of humans (Homo sapiens neanderthalensis) or as a separate species (Homo neanderthalensis).[1] The first proto-Neanderthal traits appeared in Europe as early as 600,000–350,000 years ago. Neanderthal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[England my lionheart]

do you have any proof of this?

or is it a blind beleif on what scientists say and on their made up figurines

I'm not sure where you live but a visit to the Natural Museum would help,the fossilised remains of Neanderthals have been found in many places,they cannot be Apes because Apes do not hunt with spears or wear clothes (Animal skins)
It makes no sense that scientists would make a figurine of a Neanderthal,for one thing it would be exposed through carbon dating,so no its not blind belief,its there and its fact not fiction.

 

[pharon85]

This is utter nonsense. Muhammad himself sold women and children into slavery. It's no wonder Islam denigrates others for their beliefs. Islam is about Islam not people. People take a back seat (second place) to the ideolgy of Islam.[FONT=&quot].[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
ٌthat is a lie prophet mohamed never sold slaves even before he be a prophet
even he say he is enemy to for any one steal people and make them slaves
[/FONT]

I don't believe in Allah nor the Jewish and Christian god. This kind of creator god is not possible.

[FONT=&quot] god is one any where any time can you proof that he is not exist [/FONT]

I've seen Allah's 'mercy'. I wouldn't want it even if Allah did exist. I have no desire to go to Allah's heaven. I don't like your idea of God nor do I imagine I would like many of the people there. [FONT=&quot]

what can i understand here that you hate yourself and hate all people , what make your hurt so dark like that?[/FONT]

What will you do when you find out George Bush is Allah? You see how nonsensical the question is?[FONT=&quot].[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
george bush is a human god is not human
and what is even special at george bush to make him not just agood man but successful man even in killing people ,he is a loser

[/FONT]

Unbelievers are denigrated in the Koran.

[FONT=&quot]
promise from allah with punish for some thing bad is not denigrate
9:6 ( [/FONT]If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.)
this mean if you meet with unbeliever and he is not coming to fight you and asked peace ,give him peace and tell him about god and drive him where he can feel secure
is that a respect or not

Religions love unbelievers. Unbelievers help unite believers and give them someone to oppose and hate.

[FONT=&quot]
we don't hate them ,if god wanted us to hate them he would just order us to fight them ,but that is not what god order us to do
we order to fight if they fight and we are order to tell them about god because we don't want them to go to hell but they just insist what can we do for them ??
[/FONT]

I'm not concerned about the end. I'm concern for the suffering of people here in this life and the fact that Islam denigrates people because of their beliefs causes much suffering here on earth.

[FONT=&quot]
it is not the islam problem that you explain quran as you like not as it is
[/FONT]

I think you mean gambling not 'jumbling'. No I'm not gambling. I'm certain in what I know. I have seen the truth and the truth does not include Allah.

thanks for correcting
if you are sure what are you doing here,why you waste your time with us
we believe in god and we are sure and we have proofs
what is your proof that there are no god also to show you that you explain quran as you like even i explain that verse before but you just see what you like not see the true explain

Let's assume what you're saying is perfectly correct. The koran is nonetheless denigrating people who have every right to believe what they wish. My original comment stands.

098.006
Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.

here you say islam call unbelievers worst of creatures
1- are this verse talk about all unbelievers ?
No
2-so who is that verse talk about ?
can you see the word ( among ) among mean some of
so it mean some of the people of the book
who are the people of the book?
you will say jews and Christians
No ,it mean any nation god sent them a holy book
so it mean some people of nations that god sent them books are the worst creatures
the question here why that people are the worst creatures ?????
because they are dishonest and edited the books that god sent them
they change what god sent and say that is words from god and that is why they are the worst creatures
Now will you accept that explanation ?
sure no
that is our religion and that how we understand it
you make for yourself what do you want to think ,not what is truly about islam

 

[pharon85]

This is the thing i find horrible,you either believe or burn in hell,i don't believe a loving God would do this,none of the Abrahmic religions make sense to me,in fact i believe that religion has more to do with Man than God.
In the rain forest somewhere,a tribe has been discovered that nobody had seen before(you may have seen it on the news)now these people know nothing of Christianity or Islam,Buddism etc so if the end time happened now they would go straight to hell which is another reason it makes no sense other than Men manipulating other Men through religion/belief.
The other thing is i have already seen the ambiguoty of religious books and especially in this thread and Islam is like Christianity and Judaism,it has many arms and isn't simply one.

god is merciful ,don't forget any one
we don't see them that don't mean god don't see them
one verse in quran will answer your question
41:30(In the case of those who say, "Our Lord is Allah., and, further, stand straight and steadfast, the angels descend on them (from time to time): "Fear ye not!" (they suggest), "Nor grieve! but receive the Glad Tidings of the Garden (of Bliss), the which ye were promised!)
this mean who say my god is the creator the one and take straight line in his life he will go to heaven
also god sent to every nation a prophet
16:36(For We assuredly sent amongst every People an apostle, (with the Command), "Serve Allah, and eschew Evil": of the People were some whom Allah guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied the Truth)
and god say that in many other verses

 

[England my lionheart]

god is merciful ,don't forget any one
we don't see them that don't mean god don't see them
one verse in quran will answer your question
41:30(In the case of those who say, "Our Lord is Allah., and, further, stand straight and steadfast, the angels descend on them (from time to time): "Fear ye not!" (they suggest), "Nor grieve! but receive the Glad Tidings of the Garden (of Bliss), the which ye were promised!)
this mean who say my god is the creator the one and take straight line in his life he will go to heaven
also god sent to every nation a prophet
16:36(For We assuredly sent amongst every People an apostle, (with the Command), "Serve Allah, and eschew Evil": of the People were some whom Allah guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied the Truth)
and god say that in many other verses

My country has'nt been sent a Prophet

 

[England my lionheart]

Still no explanation of Neanderthal Man,its not something that can just be ignored,there is overwhelming evidence of their existence.

 

[pharon85]

My country has'nt been sent a Prophet

god didn't say i sent one to every country
god say i sent one to every nation
Mohamed is last one and Islam is the final religion that is for all humanity
sure god sent to your nation a prophet before mohamed
i know you will ask me to proof that
my answer that that is the merciful god who speak in quran and god never lie
also you read know and ask
this mean you got the message of islam and prophet mohamed
accepting it it or not is some thing up to you

 

[England my lionheart]

god didn't say i sent one to every country
god say i sent one to every nation
Mohamed is last one and Islam is the final religion that is for all humanity
sure god sent to your nation a prophet before mohamed
i know you will ask me to proof that
my answer that that is the merciful god who speak in quran and god never lie
also you read know and ask
this mean you got the message of islam and prophet mohamed
accepting it it or not is some thing up to you

I know its up to me,thank goodness for that

 

[pharon85]

Still no explanation of Neanderthal Man,its not something that can just be ignored,there is overwhelming evidence of their existence.

i don't know where is the problem is
they are humans lived on earth
your problem that no script they left say we worship god
it is no script was found,not no script at all
do you think we know every thing about them except did they worship god or didn't they?
4:164(Of some apostles We have already told thee the story; of others We have not)
so god didn't mention all prophets names in quran
you will sure ask why didn't god mention all the prophets
because as god say ,every nation have it is prophets ,more than one
how many nation were in earth ?
a lot ,so if every prophet was mentioned that wouldn't be a holly book it would be a telephone guide
the aim of quran is sending god orders to humans

 

[GURSIKH]

Originally Posted by pharon85

Mohamed is last one and Islam is the final religion that is for all humanity

merciful god who speak in quran and god never lie

above statement is illogical and absurd ,

GURU NANAK SAYS

ਆਖਹਿ ਸੁਰਿ ਨਰ ਮੁਨਿ ਜਨ ਸੇਵ ॥
The spiritual warriors, the heavenly beings, the silent sages, the humble and serviceful speak.


ਕੇਤੇ ਆਖਹਿ ਆਖਣਿ ਪਾਹਿ ॥
Many speak and try to describe Him.


ਕੇਤੇ ਕਹਿ ਕਹਿ ਉਠਿ ਉਠਿ ਜਾਹਿ ॥
Many have spoken of Him over and over again, and have then arisen and departed.


ਏਤੇ ਕੀਤੇ ਹੋਰਿ ਕਰੇਹਿ ॥
If He were to create as many again as there already are,


ਤਾ ਆਖਿ ਨ ਸਕਹਿ ਕੇਈ ਕੇਇ ॥
even then, they could not describe Him.


ਜੇਵਡੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਤੇਵਡੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
He is as Great as He wishes to be.


ਨਾਨਕ ਜਾਣੈ ਸਾਚਾ ਸੋਇ ॥
O Nanak, the True Lord knows.


ਜੇ ਕੋ ਆਖੈ ਬੋਲੁਵਿਗਾੜੁ ॥
If anyone presumes to describe God,


ਤਾ ਲਿਖੀਐ ਸਿਰਿ ਗਾਵਾਰਾ ਗਾਵਾਰੁ ॥੨੬॥
he shall be known as the greatest fool of fools! ||26

love
________

 

[pharon85]

above statement is illogical and absurd ,

GURU NANAK SAYS

ਆਖਹਿ ਸੁਰਿ ਨਰ ਮੁਨਿ ਜਨ ਸੇਵ ॥
The spiritual warriors, the heavenly beings, the silent sages, the humble and serviceful speak.


ਕੇਤੇ ਆਖਹਿ ਆਖਣਿ ਪਾਹਿ ॥
Many speak and try to describe Him.


ਕੇਤੇ ਕਹਿ ਕਹਿ ਉਠਿ ਉਠਿ ਜਾਹਿ ॥
Many have spoken of Him over and over again, and have then arisen and departed.


ਏਤੇ ਕੀਤੇ ਹੋਰਿ ਕਰੇਹਿ ॥
If He were to create as many again as there already are,


ਤਾ ਆਖਿ ਨ ਸਕਹਿ ਕੇਈ ਕੇਇ ॥
even then, they could not describe Him.


ਜੇਵਡੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਤੇਵਡੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
He is as Great as He wishes to be.


ਨਾਨਕ ਜਾਣੈ ਸਾਚਾ ਸੋਇ ॥
O Nanak, the True Lord knows.


ਜੇ ਕੋ ਆਖੈ ਬੋਲੁਵਿਗਾੜੁ ॥
If anyone presumes to describe God,


ਤਾ ਲਿਖੀਐ ਸਿਰਿ ਗਾਵਾਰਾ ਗਾਵਾਰੁ ॥੨੬॥
he shall be known as the greatest fool of fools! ||26

love
________

what is that connection with what i say
it mean the one who try to describe god is fool
i'am sure it refer to the shape of god
so what is the connection between that and prophets
can you tell me why it is illogical and absurd ??????

 

[GURSIKH]

what is that connection with what i say
it mean the one who try to describe god is fool
i'am sure it refer to the shape of good
so what is the connection between that and prophets
can you tell me why it is illogical and absurd ??????

DEAR THE STATEMENT THAT , MOHAMMAD SHARIF IS LAST PROPHET IS ABSURD that i mean .

thanx

 

[pharon85]

DEAR THE STATEMENT THAT , MOHAMMAD SHARIF IS LAST PROPHET IS ABSURD that i mean .

thanx

why ,and where is the illogical

 

[GURSIKH]

Originally Posted by pharon85

Mohamed is last one and Islam is the final religion that is for all humanity

it is illogical bcoz , the above statement is root cause of hatred , aggression and led to the killing of many prophets .

for little insight check the following , it is just introduction

Untitled Document

thanx

 

[Alla Prima]

[FONT=&quot]
?that is a lie prophet mohamed never sold slaves even before he be a prophet
even he say he is enemy to for any one steal people and make them slaves

Evidence to the contrary:

Historically, the major juristic schools of Islam traditionally accepted the institution of slavery.[1] Muhammad and many of his companions bought, sold, freed, and captured slaves. Slaves benefited from Islamic dispensations which improved their situation relative to that in pre-Islamic society.[1] At the end of the 19th century, a shift in Muslim thought and interpretation of the Qur'an occurred, and slavery became seen as opposed to Islamic principles of justice and equality.[2] This interpretation has not been accepted by the Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia.[3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_slavery

033.050
O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war


023.006
YUSUFALI: Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame,
PICKTHAL: Save from their wives or the (slaves) that their right hands possess, for then they are not blameworthy,
SHAKIR: Except before their mates or those whom their right hands possess, for they surely are not blameable,

The passage's context here (not quoted in full) details how Muslim males are allowed to have sexual relations with their wives and slave girls. Implicit in this is that Muslim males had slave-concubines. 70:30 is basically a repeat of 23:5.

Ibn Sa'd's "Tabaqat", gives a clear description of Muhammad having "relations" with at least one of his slave girls. Muhammad had sexual relations with Mariyah, his Coptic slave. Mariyah and her sister, Sirin were slaves given as gifts to Muhammad. Muhammad gave Sirin to Hasan Thabit, the poet. Ibn Sa'd says that Muhammad "liked Mariyah, who was of white complexion, with curly hair and pretty." [Taken from Ibn Sa'd's "Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir" (Book of the Major Classes), p151].

Ibn Sa'd also writes that Mariyah bore Muhammad a son named Ibrahim. He died 18 months later. Sa'd writes: "If he had lived, no maternal uncle of his would have remained in bondage", p164. This shows that there were other Coptic slaves owned by the Muslims.


The Quran also instructs Muslims NOT to force their female slaves into prostitution (24:34), and even allows Muslims to marry slaves if they so desire (4:24), and to free them at times as a penalty for crime or sin (4:92, 5:89, 58:3) and even allows slaves to buy their liberty, if they meet certain of their master's conditions (24:33). [90:10 'freeing of a bondsman' refers to Muslims ransoming other Muslims who were slaves of non-Muslims.]http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/slavery.htm

BUKHARI'S HADITH AND SLAVERY

There are hundreds of Hadith that deal with slavery. Whole chapters of Hadith are dedicated to dealing with the taxation, treatment, sale, and jurisprudence of slaves. In addition to this, numerous Hadith mention slaves, and their relation to their Muslim masters. Here is a selection of Hadith on slaves: [all Hadith are from Sahih Bukhari, unless noted.]


Vol. 7-#137 Narrated Abu al-Khudri: "We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah's messenger about it and he said, "Do you really do that?" repeating the question thrice, "There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection.""

Here, Muslims had taken female slaves, and had sex with them. Muhammad approved of this. He only admonished them not to practice coitus interruptus.


Vol. 5-#459 [This Hadith is similar to the above. However, additional details are added]. Narrated Ibn Muhairiz: "I entered the mosque and saw Abu Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu said, "We went out with Allah's messenger for the Ghazwa (attack upon) Banu Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interruptus we said "How can we do coitus interruptus without asking Allah's messenger while he is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said "It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist.""


Here, the Muslims attacked the Banu Mustaliq, and took slaves. The female slaves were distributed as booty to the Muslim soldiers. Being away from home, the soldiers became horny, and want to have sexual relations with the newly captured female slaves. They went to Muhammad and asked about coitus interruptus. He told them not to practice that, but to complete the sexual act with the slaves. Related Hadith show that they didn't want to get the women pregnant because they wanted to be able to sell them later on. Under Islamic law they were not allowed to sell pregnant female slaves.

In effect, Muhammad okayed the rape of female prisoners.


Vol. 3-#765

Narrated Kuraib: the freed slave of Ibn 'Abbas, that Maimuna bint Al-Harith told him that she manumitted a slave-girl without taking the permission of the Prophet. On the day when it was her turn to be with the Prophet, she said, "Do you know, O Allah's Apostle, that I have manumitted my slave-girl?" He said, "Have you really?" She replied in the affirmative. He said, "You would have got more reward if you had given her (i.e. the slave-girl) to one of your maternal uncles."


Here a woman frees a slave girl, but Muhammad says that she would have gotten more (heavenly) reward if she had given the slave one of her uncles, thus keeping the slave in slavery.


Vol. 7-#734 "....At the door of the [Muhammad's] room there was a slave to whom I went and said, "Ask the permission for me to enter".....

This is a long Hadith, and the quote reveals that Muhammad has slaves working in his house.


Vol. 7-#344 Narrated Anas: "Allah's messenger went to the house of his slave tailor, and he was offered a dish of gourd of which he started eating. I have loved to eat gourd since I saw Allah's messenger eating it."

This Hadith shows that another one of Muhammad's slaves was a tailor. #346 gives additional details.


Vol. 5-#541 Narrated Abu Huraira: When we conquered Khaibar, we gained neither gold nor silver as booty, but we gained cows, camels, goods and gardens. Then we departed with Allah's apostle to the valley of Al-Qira, and at that time Allah's messenger had a slave called Midam who had been presented to him by one of Banu Ad-Dibbab. While the slave was dismounting the saddle of Allah's messenger an arrow the thrower of which was unknown, came and hit him.....

This Hadith shows that Muhammad held a slave, who was struck with an arrow.


Vol. 5-#637 Narrated Buraida: The prophet sent Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus ([one fifth] of the booty) and I hated Ali, and Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, "Don't you see this (i.e. Ali)?" When we reached the prophet I mentioned that to him. He said, "O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?" I said, "Yes" He said, "Do you hate him, for he deserves more than that from the Khumus."

The note for this Hadith says "Buraida hated Ali because he had taken a slave girl form the booty and considered that as something not good."

Here Ali took a newly captured slave girl, and had sex with her. When Muhammad was told about it, he approved of it. Note that slaves were considered as booty, and as a man’s property, they can use the female slave for sex, i.e., rape them.



Vol. 5-#512 Narrated Anas: ".....The prophet had their warriors killed, their offspring and woman taken as captives...."

This Hadith details the attack on the Jews of Khaibar. Again, many of the women and children were taken and made into slaves.


Vol. 5-Chapter 67 Narrated Ibn Ishaq: The Ghazwa (attack upon) Uyaina bin Hisn waged against Banu Al-Anbar, a branch of Banu Tamim. The prophet sent Uyaina to raid them. He raided them and killed some of them and took some others as captives.

Here, Muhammad sent out his men to attack another tribe. The killed some of them and took others as captives. Once again, the Muslims attacked a neighboring tribe.


Vol. 5-#182 Narrated Aisha: "Abu Bakr had a slave who used to give him some of his earnings.

Vol. 5-#50 Narrated Amr Maimun: "....The slave of Al-Mughira..."
[another Muslim who owned the slave that killed Umar.]

....Al-Abbas had the greatest number of slaves....
[Al-Abbas, the future Muslim leader had many slaves].


Vol. 9-#462 Narrated Aisha: "...Furthermore you may ask the slave girl who will tell you the truth". So the prophet asked Barira (my slave girl)...

Aisha had her own slave.


Also, volume 7-#s 845, 341, 352, 371, 410, 413, 654, ch. 22, ch. 23, and
volume 1-#s 29, 439, 661,
volume 9-#s ch. 23, ch. 32, #293, 296, 277, 100, 80.

All these Hadith detail that many other Muslims owned slaves.http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/slavery.htm

 

[pharon85]

it is illogical bcoz , the above statement is root cause of hatred , aggression and led to the killing of many prophets .

for little insight check the following , it is just introduction

Untitled Document

thanx

omm
are you bahaie ?
No
so what do you know about them ?
peace and baha is a prophet that is why moslems killed him
but is that all ?????????
NO
baha first say he is a prophet then he say he is god
they say there are no hell or heaven
they say women and money is for every one of their religion
so if you are bahai your money and wife can be shared with another bahai
do you know that?????
if you know that do you accept to share your wife with another man?????
is that a religion from god
that is a religion from devil

 

[Alla Prima]

Slaves even had some rights:

THE RIGHTS OF SLAVES UNDER ISLAM

According to the Hughes Dictionary of Islam, slaves had few civil or legal rights. For example:

a) Muslim men were allowed to have sex anytime with females slaves - Sura 4:3, 4:29, 33:49.

b) Slaves are as helpless before their masters as idols are before God - Sura 16:77

c) According to Islamic Tradition, people at the time of their capture were either to be killed, or enslaved. Shows you that they were at the bottom of the barrel to start with.

d) According to Islamic jurisprudence, slaves were merchandise. The sales of slaves was in accordance with the sale of animals.

e) Muhammad ordered that some slaves who were freed by their master be RE-ENSLAVED!

f) It is permissible under Islamic law to whip slaves.

g) According to Islam, a Muslim could not be put to death for murdering a slave. Ref. 2:178 and the Jalalayn confirm this.

h) According to Islam, the testimony of slaves is not admissible in court. Ibn Timiyya and Bukhari state this.

i) According to Islamic jurisprudence, slaves cannot choose their own marriage mate. - Ibn Hazm, vol. 6, part 9.

j) According to Islamic jurisprudence, slaves can be forced to marry who their masters want. - Malik ibn Anas, vol. 2, page 155.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/slavery.htm