Islam vs western values

[Sand Dancer]

riots have destroyed a lot of government properties and it's time for us to dominate the west

Why does a religion have to dominate? People don't need religion to be decent human beings. We just have to stop being so selfish.

 

[Father Heathen]

why is death better than living

It's better to die free than live under primitive and savage tyranny.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I mentioned that most Muslims aren't like that. The context is in "Christianity is dying because there are some who are preaching the same thing as before". I'm just saying that Muslims have "some" that are changing things too.

The application was simply that the position that the poster was stating wasn't applicable.

Thanks! I can see your point more clearly now.

 

[Valjean]

humans aren't born gay. is it a coincidence that most humans that are born gays are in 21th century but were not seen in past?

Aren't you reading these posts? Aren't you reading the literature on the subject? Where are you getting all this incorrect information? Links, please.

The anatomy and physiology of your brain was not your choice, any more than your hair color or race. There is no reason to believe there are more gay humans, ducks, deer, dogs, &c today than there were in the past.

The reason you see more gays today is because they'll no longer go to jail, or be ridiculed, or ostracized, so many are no longer hiding it.
This has been explained to you, but apparently you're not listening.

 

[Pro Gamer]

They grow up fatherless and depressed if their parents get divorced too in my view, but Islam allows divorce.

muslims marry another after divorcing and they let the mother or father see the child as well because it's their right

 

[Pro Gamer]

Well if you enjoy being the gay sex slave of some closeted Muslim from another denomination perhaps its not better, but I don't think so personally.

being a slave of a muslim is better than living free in the west

 

[Pro Gamer]

It is a political leader in your view, but a religious and political leader in the view of some other Muslims. Other Muslims literally accepted it as a pillar of Islam as per the article I referred you.

religious leaders were the first four khalifas but they were the only ones

 

[Pro Gamer]

No I don't, because my principle is not to pretend that harm goes away just because 10 people are enjoying the result which wouldn't even be much of a result by the time it was divided 10 ways in my view.

why not? more benefits than loss? if 1.9 billion muslims conquer america and take properties of those 360 million people so isn't there more benefits than loss?

 

[Pro Gamer]

And the bulk of the iceberg doesn't exist because we only see the tip am I right?

there was no bulk of the iceberg before the environment became suitable for ice

 

[Pro Gamer]

If you weren't blindly following your Islamic forefathers then instead of having a common source which you inherited you would be able to demonstrate your views are true using reason in my view, so I ask for the third time - demonstrate using reason that gays should be executed and slavery is moral.

Your blanket refusal to do so indicates to me that you are indeed a blind imitator of your forefathers.

i have already said many times that gays being bad is a morality of most of human history which is a reason on its own

 

[Pro Gamer]

Islamic advances like ISIS in Syria? They will have to try harder. Never thought your views might be completely wrong, and coming from a biased education or even indoctrination? I regard my childhood as being quite benign (no particular indoctrination but the usual default religious one), and giving me the chance as to where to gather information and what to believe based on my own reasoning skills - hence basically an agnostic atheist - given that my assessment of old religious texts marks them as not being from God but from human origins. And at least I can blame myself if I am wrong with my assessment. I was probably an agnostic atheist from about 18 too, and nothing has changed this position.

I probably won't be alive to see any changes over the next fifty years, but I very much doubt that progress gained will be reversed, and it is more likely that Islam will have to change if it is to retain members - but of course apostasy will solve that issue.

isis in syria have not done more damage than western liberalism. ask kelly he is old enough to have seen moralities change over the course of few years. biased or idoctrination? what do you think?
Who is the real “free thinker”?

The atheist, who:

1) Lives in a secular world,

2) Goes to schools with secular curricula based on secular philosophies that constantly question and critique faith on the basis of “critical thinking,”

3) Is embedded in an elitist secular culture that neither recognizes God or religion,

4) Is everyday exposed to media, movies, and music that ignore or question the existence of God,

5) Resides in an overall secular intellectual milieu where being “religious” is tantamount to naivety and being skeptical of religion is tantamount to enlightenment,

and then, after all that, arrogantly proclaims as if, against all odds, he has made the discovery of the century, “Eureka! There is no God!”?

…………………Or the Muslim, who:

1) Lives in a secular world,

2) Goes to schools with secular curricula based on secular philosophies that constantly question and critique faith on the basis of “critical thinking,”

3) Is embedded in an elitist secular culture that considers Islam retrograde and terroristic,

4) Is everyday exposed to media, movies, and music that ignore or question the existence of God and attack Islam in particular,

5) Resides in an overall secular intellectual milieu where being “religious” is tantamount to naivety, being skeptical of religion is tantamount to enlightenment, and being Muslim is tantamount to simple-mindedness at best, medieval barbarity, at worst,

and then, after all that, maintains conviction and confidence in his Islamic beliefs and holds firm despite the all consuming pressure, like clutching a burning ember?

Who has really gone against the tide and sought after the truth in the face of overwhelming adversity?
who has more indoctrination?

btw romans and persians once believed that islam would be dead or change but we are still here and where are they now? your west will fade away as well

 

[Pro Gamer]

Aren't you reading these posts? Aren't you reading the literature on the subject? Where are you getting all this incorrect information? Links, please.

The anatomy and physiology of your brain was not your choice, any more than your hair color or race. There is no reason to believe there are more gay humans, ducks, deer, dogs, &c today than there were in the past.

The reason you see more gays today is because they'll no longer go to jail, or be ridiculed, or ostracized, so many are no longer hiding it.
This has been explained to you, but apparently you're not listening.

all of that are your imaginations which i don't care about. i can also imagine that there were aliens hiding in past and didn't show up because people would kill them

 

[Pro Gamer]

It's better to die free than live under primitive and savage tyranny.

that's why we would rather die following islam than bowing to western values that are forced upon us

 

[Nakosis]

...because Islam never changes

You know what else never changes?
War, war never changes.
I know that is true because it was stated in a very popular game.

So just because something never changes doesn't make it good.
Kind of like someone saying, not me of course, someone else saying "My underwear never changes".
I do change my underwear, at least once a week.

 

[Alien826]

what is harmful for someone can be beneficial for someone else

That's true, but it doesn't justify the harm. Let's say I come to your house and steal all your things. Assuming I don't get caught, that's beneficial to me, I have more stuff. It's definitely harmful to you though, and the benefit to me doesn't make it right to harm you.

Or I may have misunderstood your point?

 

[Mock Turtle]

isis in syria have not done more damage than western liberalism. ask kelly he is old enough to have seen moralities change over the course of few years. biased or idoctrination? what do you think?
Who is the real “free thinker”?

The atheist, who:

1) Lives in a secular world,

2) Goes to schools with secular curricula based on secular philosophies that constantly question and critique faith on the basis of “critical thinking,”

3) Is embedded in an elitist secular culture that neither recognizes God or religion,

4) Is everyday exposed to media, movies, and music that ignore or question the existence of God,

5) Resides in an overall secular intellectual milieu where being “religious” is tantamount to naivety and being skeptical of religion is tantamount to enlightenment,

and then, after all that, arrogantly proclaims as if, against all odds, he has made the discovery of the century, “Eureka! There is no God!”?

…………………Or the Muslim, who:

1) Lives in a secular world,

2) Goes to schools with secular curricula based on secular philosophies that constantly question and critique faith on the basis of “critical thinking,”

3) Is embedded in an elitist secular culture that considers Islam retrograde and terroristic,

4) Is everyday exposed to media, movies, and music that ignore or question the existence of God and attack Islam in particular,

5) Resides in an overall secular intellectual milieu where being “religious” is tantamount to naivety, being skeptical of religion is tantamount to enlightenment, and being Muslim is tantamount to simple-mindedness at best, medieval barbarity, at worst,

and then, after all that, maintains conviction and confidence in his Islamic beliefs and holds firm despite the all consuming pressure, like clutching a burning ember?

Who has really gone against the tide and sought after the truth in the face of overwhelming adversity?
who has more indoctrination?

btw romans and persians once believed that islam would be dead or change but we are still here and where are they now? your west will fade away as well

But most atheists don't live in a strictly secular world, given that religions usually have some influence in even the most secular of countries. And you seem to have it wrong as to atheists, given that most atheists couldn't care less what you (or others with different beliefs) believe as to religious beliefs - as long as such doesn't harm them or others - but where many of the doctrines of Islam are often harmful. As to homosexuality, for example, as to discrimination towards females, as to even leaving the religion, as to punishments, as to free speech, and the list goes on.

If you came here to proselytise Islam and critique all non-Muslims for how bad we all are you won't be the first - but you might not stay long given that proselytising is against the rules, and many will simply get tired of responding to such posts.

 

[Alien826]

That's [that he is a troll] what I suspect.

I see someone that has been indoctrinated by one particular world view and is convinced that it is true and all others are false. We see that a lot in other religions too. The truth may emerge though.

He could compare the kindness with which he has been treated here with how (say) a Christian who spoke out against Islam in an Islamic country might be treated and think about it, but I doubt that will happen.

 

[Father Heathen]

that's why we would rather die following islam than bowing to western values that are forced upon us

Yeah, that's usually how indoctrination works.

 

[Alien826]

No I don't, because my principle is not to pretend that harm goes away just because 10 people are enjoying the result which wouldn't even be much of a result by the time it was divided 10 ways in my view.

Well, if the rich guy was Elon Musk and I was one of the ten, I think I'd be doing extremely well! But of course you are right, the point is that theft is wrong and it remains wrong no matter who benefits. To continue with the justification for that, if everyone simply took other people's possessions then civilization as we know it would collapse, to the benefit of a few war lords only.

 

[Pro Gamer]

Yeah, that's usually how indoctrination works.

then you are indoctrinated by western social conditionings