Islam vs western values

[Orbit]

then you are indoctrinated by western social conditionings

You attack, and are angry and aggressive. Yet you've been treated with kindness here. Perhaps we are just conditioned badly, with western empathy.

 

[Alien826]

there was no bulk of the iceberg before the environment became suitable for ice

That is the strangest statement I have read for a long time. You deserve a prize.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why? What would be the point? What benefit would that have to me, and more importantly, to them?

It's a benefit to society that slavery be challenged and condemned and supporters scrutinized, called out and judged for their support of such wickedness amd cruelty and make it clear such things are not good or tolerable.

 

[Valjean]

it is harmful for society as whole but you westerns are individualistic.

You're not answering the question. HOW is it harmful to society? Please name some societies that have been harmed by "western style" clothing.

there is no human right, it's just western right you are talking about.

Do you know what's meant by human rights? Why do you fear them? Why does allowing a diversity of appearance, behavior, opinion, and so on make you so uncomfortable? Is it because you realize subconsciously that you have no solid foundation for your opinions, and feel threatened by well supported, contrary ideas?

a woman has the right to go naked or sleep with whoever she wants but then what about the child?

Where are you seeing western people walking around naked, and what does nudity have to do with children, anyway?

Does the sight of a woman's hair drive you into a sexual frenzy? If so, the problem is yours; the lack of control is yours. It's not fair to restrict the lives of others to avoid inflaming the psychopathology of a few.

they will grow up fatherless and depressed. what about a child's right to know his father or get the love from his parents? you guys don't care about these basic rights. you guys just care about rights involving sexuality and your lingering

So western values promote unloved orphans, and you think we don't care about the rights of children? I think you're listening to too much tribal propaganda. Maybe you should remove the beam from your own eye before you complain about the splinter in another's eye.

You're the one who disdain's human rights, regardless of age. You're the one who promotes slavery/submission ("islam") You're the one who believes only male children grow up to be independent adults -- and only a few of even those.
Do you lack compassion, mercy, empathy, consideration for others? Do you understand justice or fairness? Can you make such judgements yourself, or do you just go by the rule book and declare it God's will?

We 'westerners' actually think about these things, and make our own judgements, guided by compassion and fairness.

 

[The Hammer]

Everything always changes.

Nothing ever changes.

Change is the only universal constant.

 

[Valjean]

we have to offer everything that will last forever while you westerns are offering a temporary morale system and bombing everyone who doesn't accept it

Your cruelty and repression will fade. People do not want to be repressed and mistreated, whether in the name of God, or man.

 

[The Hammer]

hindusm? it has changed a lot over time and there is no such thing as hindu laws. all they have are beliefs in some guy who does belly dances whenever he is angry

What a hollow view on such a diverse religion. Hinduism has a great breadth of depth. As does Islam. It's a shame to see one slam the other.

 

[The Hammer]

It benefits me as passing judgement on those who wish to enslave me motivates self defence. It will benefit them if they are open-minded enough to learn from wise judgement in my view.

"Passing judgment.... Benefits me because I feel better."

*Fixed it.

 

[The Hammer]

why is death better than living

Because in death I am free.

 

[The Hammer]

being a slave of a muslim is better than living free in the west

I'll disagree with you there.

 

[Valjean]

yeah they have real skills unlike any of your american celebrities. infact ronaldo is bigger than your entire country. if any of the american celebrity comes to asia or non english speaking european countries then most people are gonna be like "who is this guy"

Skills in chasing and kicking a ball, not admirable characteristics like morality or knowledge.
Does God care if you can kick a ball well, in a vicarious battle, or does He prefer honorable features like kindness, helpfulness and intelligence?

 

[PureX]

I can't disagree that western civilization is drowning in greed, lust, lies, violence, selfishness and ignorance. But I don't see Islam as having done anything of significance to litigate that condition. Muslims are just as given to each of those spiritual poisons as the members of any other religion or culture are.

 

[The Hammer]

that's why we would rather die following islam than bowing to western values that are forced upon us

That's fine. Get off the internet then. That's a Western Product and a progenitor of Freedom and Liberal values.

Not to mention it was designed (the internet), by the United States military. How do you like using Western military technology?

 

[Valjean]

Pro Gamer said:
yeah they have real skills unlike any of your american celebrities. infact ronaldo is bigger than your entire country. if any of the american celebrity comes to asia or non english speaking european countries then most people are gonna be like "who is this guy"

I've never heard of Ronaldo, nor have I ever heard him mentioned by any of my friends.

infact messi is going to america this month so joe biden is no longer the most important person in usa anymore

Even a dog can catch a frisbee, and outrun a human sprinter. Does that make him good or honorable? Does God care about these trivial, childish things?
There's nothing honorable or admirable about grown men playing with sticks and balls, IMHO. There's nothing honorable about conflict and vicarious war.
Those obsessed with such things are throwbacks, with primitive minds -- IMHO

 

[exchemist]

what dark ages? Islamic values existed in 7th century and the same shariah is existing right now. it will exist in future as well but your western morality won't survive the test of time

Tell me, do they still carry out public execution by beheading in Saudi Arabia?

Is this something you would argue the rest of the world should adopt?

 

[Valjean]

if a religion has not even changed in slightest in 1450 years then how can it go extinct in 1000 years? western have changed country laws of middle east but not islam. islamic views won't go extinct but you and your western understanding of "good" would go extinct soon

The words may persist, like the words of the Torah or Vedas, put the practice has changed,
Atavistic, fundamentalist sects can arise in any religion, but these don't portend any lasting return to the original social norms and practices of their bronze or iron age founders. Such conventions would be totally dysfunctional in the modern world.

 

[Father Heathen]

then you are indoctrinated by western social conditionings

Wowsers!

 

[Quintessence]

It's a benefit to society that slavery be challenged and condemned and supporters scrutinized, called out and judged for their support of such wickedness amd cruelty and make it clear such things are not good or tolerable.

This sounds like a benefit of challenging slavery as a behavior or idea, not of challenging the individuals themselves who hold those views. What is the benefit to passing judgement on specific individuals - for both the judgers and the judged? Or do you not feel there is a distinction there between being judgmental of specific humans versus a behavior or idea? Is, say, hating on anti-choice humans the same as hating on anti-choice ideology in your view?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This sounds like a benefit of challenging slavery as a behavior or idea, not of challenging the individuals themselves who hold those views. What is the benefit to passing judgement on specific individuals - for both the judgers and the judged? Or do you not feel there is a distinction there between being judgmental of specific humans versus a behavior or idea? Is, say, hating on anti-choice humans the same as hating on anti-choice ideology in your view?

When it comes to slavery, anyone who supports cannot rightly be called a good person.
Amd, yes, some anti-choice people do deserve scorn and contempt such as those who murder doctors and their staff and patients, as well as condeming support for such extremism.

 

[Quintessence]

When it comes to slavery, anyone who supports cannot rightly be called a good person.
Amd, yes, some anti-choice people do deserve scorn and contempt such as those who murder doctors and their staff and patients, as well as condeming support for such extremism.

But... why? Really, truly, why?

Is it because of this below, or something else?

"Passing judgment.... Benefits me because I feel better."

Does getting angry at people and calling them bad people accomplish something else? Does giving them what you believe they deserve - anger, hatred, condemnation, perhaps even vengeance - impose your vision of how reality should be on the world? What happens when someone disagrees with you and thinks your way of doing things is evil and bad?

I'm not asking these questions to be pedantic, I'm asking it because I think this level of introspection is important if a human is going to go around passing judgement. Whenever some human passes judgement about how something "ought" to be we're imposing our will onto reality. Both those passing judgement as well as the judged do this, and yet because the judgmental are the heroes of their own stories, they will tell the tale in a self-righteous fashion in spite of doing more or less the same thing as their opposition - attempting to impose their vision of normalcy on everyone else. There's a lot of power and responsibility in that. It prompts us to be thoughtful in how and why we attempt to impose our will - to think about the consequences. Humans, on the whole, are kind of sort of rubbish at that? Ah, well.

Keep calm, carry on. All of this is just meaningless words on a screen.